CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[mrjitty]

Ita! Entrepreneurs are often dreamers. They have long dreamed of having a successful business, but when it comes true, often they are not that savvy on how to implement everything.

I think Joey relied heavily on CM at first.

But like you have posted they learn as they go along.

Imo, in the end Joey finally knew what would make his company have a successful future. By then he knew CM had become far more of a monetary liability burden for him than an asset.

Imo

yes - he already went through this process with DK

He realised he needed to own the sales pipe 100% so he muscled DK out.

But he didn't need DK as a business partner anymore because he could just buy SEO and he had the money to just outsource it.

Earlier I think he was quite dependent on DK - probably to do a lot of work on spec. In some ways DK did get stiffed because he hadn't protected himself and then Joey forced him out when the sales kicked in

 

[Karinna]

I really wish we had more of Joey's emails... from before Feb 1st. I just can't see that email being the only one that had their 'totals'. The Provecho fountain was almost 2 years previous to the murders, the chargeback was about a 1 1/2 years before Feb 2010, so it was not anything new, and I don't see it being part of the motive.

I can see why the defense wants it in, the pro's have said it was money "owed" by Chase, but with no explanation of why or how that came to be, or even when that happened. The pro's have said that things had changed 'recently', that Chase wasn't showing up for work, that Chase owed Joey money, that Joey was going to fire Chase, etc. The Provecho 19K was not 'recent' at all. The running tab doesn't seem to be recent either, it seems they had been doing that since at least the beginning of 2009.

Well if we want to exclude all that money owed to Joey in that time frame and exclude it as the motive for murder, we could just go with the fact of Merritt's out of control gambling addiction as motive for monetary gain from Joey IMO.
From what we know of Merritt he was always broke and couldn't even cover his rent for his family. Their lives altered dramatically over the course of their relationship and because of Merritt's addiction. We know and addict always lives for their next fix, not caring how they get it but just the compulsion to do so. Merritt did that with no thought of how it would impact his partner or children, just feed the addiction with $$$.
I think he saw Joey as an easy target and had inserted himself into JM's family life. No sooner had the McStay's been murdered and Merritt saw his payday, as evidenced by what the investigation discovered re the QB's and cheques on the same day as the murders. All IMO.

 

[missy1974]

But do you at accept that Chase did owe Joey the 19K and he had received the money and Maline sought to deceive the Court as to that fact?

Can you point me to where he tried to deceive the court? I know he asked Cathy if she knew if Chase was paid or not, and Cathy said she didn't know. I really can't recall where it came up before that.

Do you think the prosecution was trying to deceive by implying that this was a new debt and recent?

I am checking my notes... and actually the pro's said in a argument that Sequieda redid the Provecho fountain... which I do believe is false, considering Provecho was closed long before Sequieda's were doing business with Joey. I think the pro's may have thought this was the "insurance" fountain.

I have 105 pages in a word document lol I searched Provecho... but I may have it spelled wrong, if you can point me to where Maline mentioned it previously so I can hear it for myself, that would be great

 

[missy1974]

Well if we want to exclude all that money owed to Joey in that time frame and exclude it as the motive for murder, we could just go with the fact of Merritt's out of control gambling addiction as motive for monetary gain from Joey IMO.
From what we know of Merritt he was always broke and couldn't even cover his rent for his family. Their lives altered dramatically over the course of their relationship and because of Merritt's addiction. We know and addict always lives for their next fix, not caring how they get it but just the compulsion to do so. Merritt did that with no thought of how it would impact his partner or children, just feed the addiction with $$$.
I think he saw Joey as an easy target and had inserted himself into JM's family life. No sooner had the McStay's been murdered and Merritt saw his payday, as evidenced by what the investigation discovered re the QB's and cheques on the same day as the murders. All IMO.

His gambling was nothing new, he had been doing it for years. Killing Joey and his family would just cut off that source of income to gamble IMO

 

[dlk1949]

Like someone else mentioned this past week on WS, there was a lot going on in JM's Life in 2010, and then you add in a wife who might have been on a tight budget with remodeling at the same time business problems/money/CM, and SM might have given JM the ultimatum to send CM that "money owed" E-mail. MOO

 

[Karinna]

His gambling was nothing new, he had been doing it for years. Killing Joey and his family would just cut off that source of income to gamble IMO

But my point is Merritt being broke wouldn't be that far sighted.
He needed his fix and he needed it quickly.
What i wonder was the $100 cheque Joey gave to Merritt on the day of the murders? An insult to Merritt? The thousands of dollars were no longer going to be incoming from JM to Merritt?

 

[Karinna]

Like someone else mentioned this past week on WS, there was a lot going on in JM's Life in 2010, and then you add in a wife who might have been on a tight budget with remodeling at the same time business problems/money/CM, and SM might have given JM the ultimatum to send CM that "money owed" E-mail. MOO

That's possible but didn't the McStays have around a $100,000 bank balance untouched in their account at the time they went missing?

 

[missy1974]

Now that I have found that the prosecutor said that Sequieda redid the Provecho fountain.... I think they have it wrong, I think they thought it was the insurance fountain that was returned. I can see why the defense wants to set this straight. JMO

This is from the hearing about the jailhouse tapes:

Imes/Daugherty: So Provecho, not to mention that David Sequieda testified about Provecho and said he had to go back and redo it. This is all part and parcel with how he did business with JM and now he's trying to get someone to explain for him what the business (?) That should be the focus, is him trying to influence some saying 'no this is actually what he deal was" and he also admits in the same statement, I don't now if I put it I the excerpt, that he did owe joseph money and he was going to make payments over a period of time.

1:40:00ish of this video:

 

[dlk1949]

Was thinking if SM kept on budget with the remodel and saw the CM debt increase, she could have encouraged the "partnership" demise.

 

[mrjitty]

Can you point me to where he tried to deceive the court? I know he asked Cathy if she knew if Chase was paid or not, and Cathy said she didn't know.

3x in EIC of CJ, Maline tried to get her to say Chase was not paid the 19K

Especially at the 3rd attempt he implied that Chase would not have been paid if Joey was not paid. Of course we know this is utter nonsense because at the time Joey paid Chase he held the 50% deposit. Only later was it clawed back.

So given Chase has admitted in writing and on the jail house audio that he was paid the 19K - do you accept

1. that the defence knows full well the truth that he was paid the 19K

2. The point of the question was to mislead the Court that he wasn't paid it?

 

[mrjitty]

His gambling was nothing new, he had been doing it for years. Killing Joey and his family would just cut off that source of income to gamble IMO

Unless it was already cut off, and the only way to get more was via more fraudulent cheques.

 

[Karinna]

Was thinking if SM kept on budget with the remodel and saw the CM debt increase, she could have encouraged the "partnership" demise.

It could be and i think re Summer's injuries to her face at autopsy, that she sustained multiple fractures of her jaw, and i think that is telling of how the murderer felt about her. I believe this crime was very personal, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Unless it was already cut off, and the only way to get more was via more fraudulent cheques.

Exactly, or just about to be cut off?
Threatening someone's livelihood can also be a catalyst for murder.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And i think in Joey attempting to rectify that problem it cost Joey and his family their life, IMO.

Yes, me too, as it often does.

Like I said earlier, I truly believe Joey was trapped in a very abusive relationship, and for so long Joey was too afraid to part ways with this highly toxic individual just like so so so many other victims were too afraid.

In any abusive relationship the abuser always dominates, and the victim is fearful, often not knowing how to escape their clutches.

Often an abuser decides how that toxic relationship will end. Even ROs served on them does not stop them many times.

When they do resort to murdering the victims, it is because they are going to show the victims they are going to be in full control to the very end. Even deciding whether the victims lives or dies by the abuser's hands.

Even then they get sick evil gratification aferwards that the victims were in their total control until they took their last breath.

When psychopaths murder
it's often vicious overkills like this one. It very important to them to know they maintained full control until the very end.

When they murder they tend to use up close, and personal weapons, because its also important to them, that the victims know WHO is taking their lives from them.

They do this to show the victims who was really in control all along of how the relationship would end, and by whom.

Its chilling really how evil the murderer's mindset works when murdering victims like the McStay family.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

3x in EIC of CJ, Maline tried to get her to say Chase was not paid the 19K

Especially at the 3rd attempt he implied that Chase would not have been paid if Joey was not paid. Of course we know this is utter nonsense because at the time Joey paid Chase he held the 50% deposit. Only later was it clawed back.

So given Chase has admitted in writing and on the jail house audio that he was paid the 19K - do you accept

1. that the defence knows full well the truth that he was paid the 19K

2. The point of the question was to mislead the Court that he wasn't paid it?

I will have to listen to it again later. I don't disagree that it appears Chase was paid the 19k, but wouldn't you agree that a big portion of that was probably for supplies to actually build the fountain? or is this again a situation where Chase made a fountain out of thin air and there would not have been any expenses involved?

I don't think Chase was the greatest guy to be in business with by any means, but in any other situation, I don't know how Joey could require a sub contractor to pay back money like that in that situation? Joey's own words were that it was 85% of the fountain that was installed. He seemed to side with Chase with not completing the glass for the fountain until they received the remainder of the fountain. Was Chase supposed to go in and finish it without Joey getting full payment?

Like I posted a little while ago... I think the prosecution thought this was the insurance fountain. They are wrong. IMO I will also have to go back to Sequieda's testimony to see if "Provecho" was mentioned, I don't recall at the moment! It's a beautiful spring day here though and I'm heading out for a few hours so it will have to wait until later Unless maybe someone else wants to check it out before I get back....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, a person with a possible addiction to alcohol, gambling or whatever, usually finds the addiction worsening over time - a downward spiral.

I agree.

I never realized how many murderers have murdered so many good people over some kind of addiction, until I started watching true crime channels over a decade, and a half ago now.

It really is eye opening how many have killed for this reason.

I also didnt realize before then, that so involved gambling addictions as the motive.

Before I began watching these true crime shows, I had assumed most were from drug addictions or for insurance or inheritance payouts.

But now I seem to see one or two cases every week now where the murderer had a grambling addiction, and the motive was to get money so they could feed their gambling addiction.

Or murdered others who were close family members or a close friend, because they had refused to lend them any more money to feed their insatiable gambling addiction.

It truly shows that money is the root of all evil, because so many innocent people have been senselessly murdered because of financial greed/gain motivation by the killer..

Imo

 

[smr]

The love of money is the root of all evil. Chase Merritt is far from being the only one that loves money.

 

[travelbug]

Was thinking if SM kept on budget with the remodel and saw the CM debt increase, she could have encouraged the "partnership" demise.

I think she was insisting Joey end his relationship with Chase from the first time she met him. She did not like CM. jmho

 

[Mony Mony]

Can you point me to where he tried to deceive the court? I know he asked Cathy if she knew if Chase was paid or not, and Cathy said she didn't know. I really can't recall where it came up before that.

Do you think the prosecution was trying to deceive by implying that this was a new debt and recent?

I am checking my notes... and actually the pro's said in a argument that Sequieda redid the Provecho fountain... which I do believe is false, considering Provecho was closed long before Sequieda's were doing business with Joey. I think the pro's may have thought this was the "insurance" fountain.

I have 105 pages in a word document lol I searched Provecho... but I may have it spelled wrong, if you can point me to where Maline mentioned it previously so I can hear it for myself, that would be great

Try searching "Provencho". They always pronounce it with the "N".

 

[asyousay]

For all of Summers faults I don’t blame her for loathing Chase. If Summer truly knew what was going on between Chase and Joey it’s no wonder she despised him. He was making Joey look like a mug day after day.

I am assuming Joey wasn’t stupid enough to reveal to her half of what was going on between them.