Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

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Also bear in mind at the time he would have had only a minute or so to have convinced her to get in the car. See my earlier post regarding max walking distances from the car in the time frame of the Spidercam footage.

Seems very profound that a guy who speaks fractured English would have been able to convince a heavily intoxicated girl to get in his car in just a minute or so.

Unsure if you missed this - the car was actually parked for around 20 minutes. The consensus seems to be that he'd spoken to her more than once in that time.
 
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I must admit, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, that I'm struggling to keep up with these threads. You go away for a couple of hours and suddenly there are five more pages! It's great, obviously, that so many people want to help, don't get me wrong, I'm just owning up personally to not being able to keep up! Real life gets in the way sometimes.

So I thought I would have another little chat with myself, to try and get straight what I think we now know, or at least what I think I now know. Please forgive me if I perpetrate any inaccuracies and please feel free to put me straight. I won't be offended. I gave up being offended about anything in 1986 and you'd be amazed how much paperwork is saved by not giving a monkey's!

So the police have got to the stage where the suspect and LS are in the playing fields together and he admitted an encounter which he said was consensual. Then left the playing fields later on his own. It seems to me that the police will have to prove, to get a conviction for murder, that he intended to kill her, ie it wasn't just something that got out of hand, and that he actually did it. Of course, there may well be a smoking gun in the form of CCTV, witness statements, forensic evidence, etc, that the police are holding back in order to clobber the defence with it when the time comes for formal charges to be laid.

But as it stands, I can't see what is to stop him saying that she ran off after the encounter on the park bench and that was the last he saw of her.

As far as the body going into the River Hull, I am still rather like Shakespeare's description of "the cat i' the adage, letting I dare not wait upon I would". On the one hand, if he did suddenly end up with a dead body on his hands, then yes, the easiest way of disposing of it and also, probably, obfuscating any forensics, would be to dump it into the River Hull. Hat-tip to whoever it was who mentioned Occam's Razor - the simplest solution is often the best.

But I still boggle that from then on it travelled down river to the confluence and thence to the estuary without once being seen, or snagging on anything. Especially at low tide.

Are there any plausible alternatives?

Assuming the suspect had the presence of mind to hide the body somewhere and then return at a later time, wrap it in something, put it in his car and transport it elsewhere, then yes. He could have disposed of it further downstream where the River Hull is less claggy and there was less chance of discovery, or he could have found somewhere along the waterfront of Hull with the River Humber and dropped it in there. However, such places with sufficient deep water close inshore are not manifold, and there is always CCTV. Although having said that, in places like Wincolmlee, the CCTV would most likely be private businesses each safeguarding their own patch, which would make it more difficult for the police to a) obtain it and b) go through it and of course some people just overwrite it every week anyway...

One other option has occurred to me, although it is less likely, I am the first to admit. That LS's encounter with the suspect wasn't the last encounter she had that night. If she did indeed manage to evade him after his alleged assault on her, who is to say where she might have wandered off to or ended up. I agree the chances of there being more than one predatory stalker on the loose might be vanishingly small, but if she did meet her ultimate fate somewhere where the perpetrator had the wherewithal to conceal the evidence, and a vehicle unknown to police because they have been concentrating on the existing suspect, then all bets are off. He could indeed have taken her somewhere like the disused fish dock and put her in the Humber there (for locals, I'm thinking of the bit near the old Lord Line building.) In which case she may not have been in the water as long as some people surmise.

At the end of the day, until and unless the full story comes out at trial (assuming someone is charged and pleads not guilty) we just won't know.

I think that's more or less where I've got to.

By the way - this thing about new members - I'm sorry if I've been guilty of posting stuff where I perhaps should have looked it up but it is often simply a case of lack of time. I actually joined in 2015 and posted on the Claudia Lawrence threads because I was thinking of writing something about her, but the ground has been so thoroughly covered, indeed stomped, that in the end I didn't bother. By the way, though, the Ouse in York is a much better bet for the disposal of bodies than the River Hull. In fact I believe there have been a couple of tragedies in the last few years where youngsters coming home from pubs and clubs have ended up in the River Ouse. If you had that in mind when you were thinking of the River Hull, then they are in fact two quite different things.
We know very little. We certainly don't know anything at all about alleged consensual encounters in the playing field. That may be supposition. Libby would be too drunk to consent to anything so no consensual defence would work anyway. All we have is police searching the playing fields,

We have MSM reports that he told his sister he met a crying girl that wanted to go home so that's what he intended to do. She also reports he told her he'd put Libby's address in his Sat Nav. 'That ties in with CCTV footage that comes from a reputable enough source to make it likely it shows PR getting Libby into his car. So we are are fairly sure he picked her up on Haworth street at about 12.09

We knew the police had sufficient stuff on him to get permission to question him up to the maximum 96 hours which is difficult. Each extension can only be granted if LE present new evidence and new lines of questioning.

We know at the end LE charged him with unrelated crimes of a sexually deviant nature.

We know LE are interested in 4 people seen on CCTV coming away from the park between 1.12am and 2.30am. Those People haven't come forward despite having been asked 4 times

That's it.
 
Unsure if you missed this - the car was parked for 20 minutes, so the consensus seems to be that he'd spoken to her more than once in that time.

Yes, you've said that before, and I already knew. But we can't be sure whether that's true or not.
There's a theory that Greybeard was there when he first tried to approach her, so maybe GB would have seen PR/the suspect and could recall what he looked like.
 
We know very little. We certainly don't know anything at all about alleged consensual encounters in the playing field. That may be supposition. Libby would be too drunk to consent to anything so no consensual defence would work anyway. All we have is police searching the playing fields.

Yes, you are right about the drunk thing of course. Silly of me not to have thought of that. I thought however that it had been reported that the suspect had claimed LS "threw herself" at him. But yes, you are right, it wouldn't stand up in court. So all we can really say is that some sort of encounter involving the park bench (presumably, since the police became suddenly very interested in it) may have taken place, and the outcome of it was unknown. Unless the police have something they are withholding for now.
 
Yes, you've said that before, and I already knew. But we can't be sure whether that's true or not.
There's a theory that Greybeard was there when he first tried to approach her, so maybe GB would have seen PR/the suspect and could recall what he looked like.

This is what was reported by MSM. You're correct in that we can't be sure if it's true or not. By that same token, you can't claim that he only had a minute to convince her to get into the car.
 
or he could have found somewhere along the waterfront of Hull with the River Humber and dropped it in there.

The banks of the Humber are quite beach like and very muddy/claggy. Unless he got into a boat and dumped it further out or somehow threw it off the Humber Bridge (he almost certainly would have been seen doing this so highly unlikely) then it would not have ended up in the middle of the estuary near Spurn Head, on its way into the North Sea.

The River Hull actually flows right into the Humber (would you believe it?) so anything floating or being carried by its currents would have ended up being spat into the flow of the Humber rather than just onto the sandy banks, and would have been carried out by the tides.
 
I guess this is aimed at long term members.

Is it rare to have so little information in the public domain in a investigation?

Have not been here long but the cases I have followed have been similar IMO. LE keeping everything to themselves, which is understandable as they do not want the person responsible to know everything they know but disappointing to us because we want to solve the case.
 
I guess this is aimed at long term members.

Is it rare to have so little information in the public domain in a investigation?
Not rare - seems like SOP to me. Frustrating - but then I find out after, that while everything is quiet they were mounting a ton (tonne?) of evidence.
We only find out what they need the public's help with or what is necessary to inform the public.
JMO
 
This is what was reported by MSM. You're correct in that we can't be sure if it's true or not. By that same token, you can't claim that he only had a minute to convince her to get into the car.

I just find it unlikely and strange that he'd go to her, go back to his car for a *advertiser censored*, go back to LS and then get her to come with him. Seems very odd. Which is what I mean by the Greybeard theory, because if he had tried to speak to her whilst GB was there, GB would definitely have noticed him. Surely if GB and PR's paths never crossed he would have only gone once and would have got her back to his car maybe in a similar amount of time.
 
Also bear in mind at the time he would have had only a minute or so to have convinced her to get in the car. See my earlier post regarding max walking distances from the car in the time frame of the Spidercam footage.

Seems very profound that a guy who speaks fractured English would have been able to convince a heavily intoxicated girl to get in his car in just a minute or so.
Like others have said, I don't think we actually know anything about his level of English? Only that his wife asked a neighbour to talk to the landlord and that he had an interpreter in court. Anyone dealing with a legal system in their non-native language would use an interpreter. It doesn't mean that he literally can't understand anything being said to him.

Obviously we don't know what was said that night, but you don't need to be completely fluent to, for example, ask if someone needs help or if they need a lift.
 
I just find it unlikely and strange that he'd go to her, go back to his car for a *advertiser censored*, go back to LS and then get her to come with him. Seems very odd. Which is what I mean by the Greybeard theory, because if he had tried to speak to her whilst GB was there, GB would definitely have noticed him. Surely if GB and PR's paths never crossed he would have only gone once and would have got her back to his car maybe in a similar amount of time.

The CCTV footage does start with him outside of the car, at midnight, returning from the direction of the bench - a short distance away, as you know. He's already been in the area for 12 minutes at that point. The bench wouldn't have been visible from inside of the car, so I've got to suspect that he's already spent the majority of his time outside of it, or going back and forth.
 
We have MSM reports that he told his sister he met a crying girl that wanted to go home so that's what he intended to do. She also reports he told her he'd put Libby's address in his Sat Nav.

I don't think we even know this, do we? Unless there's a version I've missed. I thought the sister's account was uncredited, because I thought at the time that it could have been his wife that gave the sister this story.
 
I guess this is aimed at long term members.

Is it rare to have so little information in the public domain in a investigation?

Fairly usual I’d say. This case is a bit different in that the main suspect has a pending court case for other offences.

In the disappearance and subsequent murder case of Becky Watts, the only direct LE appeal I can remember was regarding previous ownership of a vehicle.
 
I just find it unlikely and strange that he'd go to her, go back to his car for a *advertiser censored*, go back to LS and then get her to come with him. Seems very odd. Which is what I mean by the Greybeard theory, because if he had tried to speak to her whilst GB was there, GB would definitely have noticed him. Surely

if GB and PR's paths never crossed he would have only gone once and would have got her back to his car maybe in a similar amount of time.

Could PR have been watching for the driver of the car parked in front of him to return and drive away before he made his advances to Libby?
 
I guess this is aimed at long term members.

Is it rare to have so little information in the public domain in a investigation?

Absolutely normal TheCasual. Police are under no obligation to release anything to do with their investigation.

Maybe sometimes public witness of CCTV may be asked to assist, but little else.

If you follow a case to trial you will be astonished how much information the prosecution has in their possession at the trial. None of this would have been made public.
I'm sure plod are beavering away behind the scenes.
 
I just find it unlikely and strange that he'd go to her, go back to his car for a *advertiser censored*, go back to LS and then get her to come with him. Seems very odd. Which is what I mean by the Greybeard theory, because if he had tried to speak to her whilst GB was there, GB would definitely have noticed him. Surely if GB and PR's paths never crossed he would have only gone once and would have got her back to his car maybe in a similar amount of time.

I am not necessarily sure he would have talked to her but could have accessed the situation. Maybe to see her condition or had to abort due to vehicles or such. The final time became the most opportune moment.
 
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