Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[TL4S]

This is why I think at some point they were not compliant in where ever he intended to direct them to and the sand bar/shallow point in the river afforded an opportunity to flee back across the river where there were houses along the road. If his car was parked quite a distance from the cemetery, far closer to the main trail access and not on the road under the bridge either, that throws a spanner into both those theories.

Does anyone know what the woods along the creek are like? Could he have walked most the way back through the woods without being seen? And how long would it have taken to get the girls out of view from the bridge or trail?

 

[TL4S]

And how could he know whether to abort, as soon as he stepped off the bridge he would have been unable to see the other end. So while he was forcing 2 girls down the hill and across the creek he couldn't have known whether someone had just started across the bridge, whether he was hidden, if he was alone.

Maybe that was part of the appeal?

 

[cody22]

They were found just under 3/8 of a mile from the NW end, and about 500 or so feet from the SE end.

JMO

Thank you....moo

 

[ocgrad]

I'm betting he really hustled them out of there.

Yes he must have. But even so he still had a bit of ground to cover with them.

 

[MsBetsy]

Telling residents they could draw conclusions on their own invites rumors and blaming which is exactly what happened via social media to this town. In my own personal opinion these are very careless comments to advise people that are frightened about murders that just occurred. I truly question why these statements were made and hope to know the reasoning someday.

Well, he did say that people should always be alert and watchful. There is no point in creating hysteria.
By telling residents they can draw conclusions on their own I think he is just saying people are pretty smart and can decide for themselves what measures they can take to be safe.
I have seen it mentioned in articles that residents have been on edge and I'm sure those with children are being extra careful.
I make sure I know where my 14 year old is and who she is with at all times.
If I lived in that area after what's happened I would have stricter rules. I would not allow her to walk in any secluded areas and when walking around the neighborhood she can only do so in a group of at least four. I'm sure there are many parents in that community that have changed the rules.
I also think they have a reason to believe this guy won't strike again anytime soon. He knows he may be closely watched. He may not know for sure, but I bet he is pretty paranoid after the last PR. Imo

 

[Plo_Koon]

After watching some of the older interviews following the crime, there are a couple details that might be relevant now.

The police confiscated a white ford pickup belonging to the owner of the property adjacent to where the girls were found. (Additionally during the recent PC members of the audience were discussing whether or not the police had mentioned a white pickup truck.)

Also a family member being interviewed stated that the girl's "cellphone was pinging around town" following them going missing.

Where can I read about the audience discussing white pick up trucks?

 

[Mercedes]

I thought I read “somewhere” that LE sent “something” away to be tested in December 2018. Could the results have just come back?

 

[IceIce9]

Hmmm. What do you all think of this photo I found during a Google image search for the High Bridge? It was taken in 2009, I do not know who is in the photo.
View attachment 181074

Many, many people pose and take photos on that bridge. It is a very popular spot for photographers.

 

[MsBetsy]

I meant the Delphi youth ministry, not sex offenders. That was just an example of a pervert youth minister in Indiana

Yes, but I thought you were referencing the article about the minister who solicited children.
I'm not sure why they would question random ministers without evidence, though. I think it is unrealistic to assume that the first place investigators would look in any murder case would be the church. Imo

 

[kkdj]

Well, he did say that people should always be alert and watchful. There is no point in creating hysteria.
By telling residents they can draw conclusions on their own I think he is just saying people are pretty smart and can decide for themselves what measures they can take to be safe.
I have seen it mentioned in articles that residents have been on edge and I'm sure those with children are being extra careful.
I make sure I know where my 14 year old is and who she is with at all times.
If I lived in that area after what's happened I would have stricter rules. I would probably not allow her to walk in any secluded areas and when walking around the neighborhood she can only do so in a group of at least four. I'm sure there are many parents in that community that have changed the rules.
I also think they have a reason to believe this guy won't strike again anytime soon. He knows he may be closely watched. He may not know for sure, but I bet he is pretty paranoid after the last PR. Imo

BBM
I hope you're right. I could also see this creating a buildup in him and him feeling compulsive and impulsive desires. I hope they have their eye on someone and it's the right man.

 

[MistyWaters]

It's really amazing because anyone could have walked across the bridge after him. Even a few minutes later as it takes several minutes to cross and by the time he and the girls were off the bridge it would take some time to move down the hill, through the brush and leaves and across the creek and up the bank and across more brush and leaves. Where RL stood with a reporter you could see the bridge clearly so someone who could have come across could also have seen there clearly too, at least from that portion of the bridge, much less hear! Even had the girls not cried, and if he didn't command them, the sound of walking off the trail cross-country would have been noticed. How would he have felt so confident that no one would be crossing the bridge??

There’s been lots of criticism for searches not continuing throughout the night. And there’s other reported activity involving people searching throughout the town of Delphi, contacting friends etc to see if the girls had later went somewhere else entirely without calling home. Because you’re right, it appears there was absolutely no indication of any possibility they’d met with foul play near the bridge, no screams, no aborted 911 calls, nothing. Why that was is still one of the most perplexing aspects of this unsolved case.

 

[ms.jones]

After Monday PC , I am convinced that the suspect will end up being a mid twenties male, highly educated, embedded in the religious community, suffering from severe mental illness such as major depression with psychotic features, and hiding in plain sight by somehow stabilizing himself via medication in order to resume somewahat normal functioning . Still I was curious about how he could make the leap to committing murder, versus committing suicide or other forms of decompensation, and why he has been able to hide in plain sight.

I offer this post as a supplement not a replacement for our current understanding of murderers and serial killers.

In the Journal of Police and Criminal Psychology I came across an article about “Catathymic Crisis” that provides one explanation. A 5 stage process was outlined. According to the author a serial killer never makes it to step 5, but regressed back to stage two and hovers between stage 2 and 4 repetitively, while for others it is possible to commit murder and never repeat it again, oftentimes evading detection.

The stages are:

(1) a thinking disorder occurs within the mind of the person

(2) a plan is created to commit the criminal act of violence

(3). internal emotional tension forces commission of the violent act under regression and loss of impulse control

(4). Superficial calmness occurs after the act and need to act out is eliminated, normal activity is conducted once again.

(5). The mind adjusts itself and understands that the thinking process that caused the commission of the act was flawed. The mind makes adjustments in order to prevent further criminal activity.

Doesn't it seem more likely that he would have narcissistic (as well as psychotic) rather than depressive personality disorder? I think he would have to be incredibly arrogant and confident in himself to do this in broad daylight with 2 victims, especially if he is from this small community and would be easily recognized. I think he has complete lack of empathy and therefore a lack of guilt. I don't think he is concerned with any of this sort of thing referenced in the PC. He killed these girls to fulfill his needs with no regard to anything else.

 

[CSIDreamer]

“Nothing out there is accurate, which leads to more false tips”..”
Well then wouldn’t it help your cause and improve your tips if you corrected the incorrect information?

That would be 2 full time jobs. This thread itself is full of innuendo.

 

[MuddyTires]

Is identifying a person naming the specific position they hold at a specific organization when it is a position held by no else, really any different than identifying the person by name?

I'm surprised that it's being permitted to continue.

 

[raja]

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

"Monday's press conference took place at a packed Wabash & Erie Canal Conference & Interpretive Center in Delphi."

The press conference in a church was an earlier event.

I am pages behind but not only did they change BG's sketch 90 degrees but they changed the venue that this new info was released. hmmm

 

[MistyWaters]

It's on facebook, there's a video from the audience with some members of the media discussing details of the case once the PC wraps up.

Is it being discussed as fact or rumour? One of the things that has constantly riled up LE is how quickly SM speculation can lead the quality of tips totally astray.

 

[ocgrad]

There’s been lots of criticism for searches not continuing throughout the night. And there’s other reported activity involving people searching throughout the town of Delphi, contacting friends etc to see if the girls had later went somewhere else entirely without calling home. Because you’re right, it appears there was absolutely no indication of any possibility they’d met with foul play near the bridge, no screams, no aborted 911 calls, nothing. Why that was is still one of the most perplexing aspects of this unsolved case.

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

 

[holtzmann]

Is identifying a person naming the specific position they hold at a specific organization when it is a position held by no else, really any different than identifying the person by name?

I'm surprised that it's being permitted to continue.

Yep. I'm reporting what seems like the most egregious but it keeps happening. These are a pretty big set of forums, though. Mods can't get to everything all at once.

 

[Plo_Koon]

That person was speculating and forgot to insert “in their opinion.” They clarified that in a later post.

Thanks, Suglo. I was catching up and hadn't read that far ahead yet..

 

[Boxer]

I think it is a random photo of someone enjoying the bridge as no doubt thousands have.

I think she

“Nothing out there is accurate, which leads to more false tips”..”
Well then wouldn’t it help your cause and improve your tips if you corrected the incorrect information?

Don't you think that having completely accurate detailed description of crime scene make it impossible for police to separate the false from the authentic information?

 

[MistyWaters]

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

And without any very visible scratch marks marking his involvement for many days.