Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[wary]

Unfortunately, Libby had the KIK app which is an SM app whose users cannot be traced.
KIK is well known to LE as a road block, as they cant get at the users info. Consequently KIK has facilitated many assaults on minors.

I’d be quite surprised if Kik was that secure from the FBI—and the FBI isn’t going to go out of its way to let people know what they can do, either.

 

[ocgrad]

I commented on that very thing a while ago but no one said anything back to me about it...Stood out to me right away. Not something you see around these parts anymore, especially on a man.

I believe they are somewhat common with men who ride motorcycles. Allows them to have the stuff they would carry in their pockets secure from falling out. They are also used as kits to store stuff hunters may need.

 

[gitana1]

I'm still blown away by the fact that people don't want to trust the prominence of the new sketch or the redirection by police because "they spent all this time on the first idea and it's apparently not real, so how can we trust them now?"

Information changes how cases are perceived and what information is being sought out all the time. I'm just curious as to what the alternative is meant to be.

I'm blown away that people witness the obvious dedication and emotion of LE handling this case, see that two years later they're continuing to work the case hard and develop new info, and decide LE is incompetent and they know better and can do better.

I see this attitude very time a case isn't solved immediately and 99.9% of the time we find that LE has been working the case competently and hard until it could be resolved.

I'm not LE but I've followed a lot of cases and have seen what the investigative process is during trials and pretrial discovery. It's astounding. They almost always have info we never dreamed of.

Of course LE isn't infallible and there are times when they fail to work the case properly, follow the right leads or give enough attention to a case. Sometimes they go after someone unjustly as in the Tonya Craft case.

But it usually becomes quite apparent when LE is dropping the ball. The first indication is when the victim's loved ones begin speaking out and expressing a lack of confidence in the investigation and investigators. Sometimes that's just frustrated family. Especially when there's a schism between two factions of family members and one side suspects the other.

But at this stage if we saw loved ones expressing a lack of confidence or criticizing LE a lot or doing an end run around LE and producing their own evidence for the public (the latter like Elizabeth Smart's family finally had to do when LE wouldn't let go of the Ritchie angle and they released a sketch of why turned out to be the real perp), then there would be some merit in questioning the efficacy of LE.

I'm seeing nothing to suggest LE isn't fully dedicated and competent.

Except for people who are or have been LE, none of us can fathom how to do this job and how complex and difficult it is.

"The information being released today is literally the result of thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts, by Delphi, Carroll County, the FBI, Indiana State Police, and countless other agencies."

Yeah, they're all incompetent. They don't know what they're doing. We can do better.

Not IMO.

It chaps my hide a bit.

 

[Deleted member 230385]

Since some of us are thinking as if starting from scratch, I do have a theory. Everyone seems to think that the girls were confronted by BG on the bridge because Libby took the video there. What if they simply spotted him and he just went on his merry way after that (or so they believed). Then the girls decided to do some more photography, perhaps at the cemetery (which is a popular spot to take photos for lots of young teens). They then went down the hill themselves and crossed the creek at a low point that they knew of. BG was tailing them, and maybe that is when he said something like "Guys, [I just came] down the hill." That saves lots of effort for BG in trying to control the girls for all the long distance. He killed them right then and there. Just another theory and my opinion only. MOO

I wonder if the girls were caught trespassing. Or conversely, their bodies were purposely placed on private property as a vendetta against the landowner. It seems noteworthy that they were found just over the private property line.

 

[layla398]

That's very true. I've just assumed he got to them at the other end of the bridge, but maybe they wandered around in the woods a bit before he came to them.

We won't know until more audio is released. I really hope more is, because what they have given up now is just not enough. I think I read somewhere that the LE do not release more audio because the suspect doing the crime during most of the audio (please correct me if I am wrong). If he was just chatting with the girls then it wouldn't be an issue to release more audio.

 

[x_files]

I was thinking it couldn't be someone local either but now the fact the new sketch looks nothing like the old one could have led no one to recognize him? I also think if it was someone like a youth pastor I would be surprised to learn murder was an isolated incident. The youth pastor I knew as a kid who was arrested as a pervert used to try to give everyone big bear hugs.

Is it possible not everyone in town follows this case? I know we do, but how many people pay attention to local news?

 

[MsBetsy]

Technically they are asking the people of Delphi because they believe this person is local or a frequent visitor and not all 3000 Delphi residents know each other so yes they are actually asking strangers to have a look and see if they recognize a mannerism. But yes, agreed they are not asking strangers to peruse FB videos. I say "us" in the sense that it was a public presser and "we" are the public. I assume most of the people sleuthing on the web are not from Delphi, yet here we all are together on websleuths right?

True, but it is probably those closest to him and most familiar with him that will recognize his demeanor.
There has to be someone who knows that he is the person who did this! LE seems to be sure of this. He must have family. How can they not know by now? Imo

 

[Angelcat13]

Jmo we never know if we will freeze when under attack, no matter our personality. Some cops even freeze. So we can’t take it as fact that they, or anyone in their situation, would fight back.

I agree. And I think our responses will depend on so many different factors - where are we both in location and in our lives in general (age, health, past experiences, etc), who else is around (do we feel like we need to be the protector or do we feel someone else there is going to take charge), etc.

When I was 18 I worked in a bank and we had an in-service about what to do in the event of a robbery. Video of an actual robbery was shown and it was pretty graphic. This was a long time ago - before all of the mass shootings, etc and the bank was in a "safe residential area".

A week later a man that I didn't recognize as a customer walked up to my counter with one hand in his jacket and quietly said, "give me two packs of large bills. Now!" When people describe their heart stopping or dropping into their stomach I can fully understand what they meant. I couldn't speak or move. My flash thought was, "he's done this before and knows the bait money (that would trigger an alarm when pulled) is $20's which is why he wants large bills" and "I'm going to die and leave my son without a mom" (I was a single mom with a 6 month old baby).

When I didn't move or speak he repeated himself while moving the hand in his jacket. I can still "see myself" as I reached into my drawer, took out two packs of $100's and dropped them to on the counter as I backed up - thinking I have a better chance of surviving being shot if I can get a little distance between us. He then took two packs of $20's out of his jacket and dropped them on the counter, picked up the packs of $100's (an even exchange), laughed and walked out of the bank.

All I remember is turning and walking to the back and going downstairs to the break room as if I was frozen. Who knows how my response would be if this happened now - with age, experiences, etc. I hope to never find out.

 

[abstr]

Thank you, I missed that. For me, it would also explain the wait until Monday after Easter for the presser. I wonder if someone was expected to be in Delphi for Easter. The presser sure appeared directed at the POI.

Under that photo it says that was at DUMC on Feb 22. It doesn't state what year but that is not the last press conf. ( presuming it was 2017 because that is the year of the article.)

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if the girls were caught trespassing. Or conversely, their bodies were purposely placed on private property as a vendetta against the landowner. It seems noteworthy that they were found just over the private property line.

That’s just not something that happens, atleast with any regularity.

What you are describing, is bad movie stuff.

What is far more likely, is that this was a sexually motivated double homicide.

 

[Boxer]

Here is KiK policy towards providing info to law enforcement.

Download our Guide for Law Enforcement.

Your post is not factually accurate

The guide is 2019.
I probably am wrong that with a warrant LE can get chat recovery. That is good, since that would reveal her activity.
MOO
KIK is unsavory and exposes users to awful people.
This $1 Billion App Can't 'Kik' Its Huge Child Exploitation Problem

 

[teeandcee]

I agree. And I think our responses will depend on so many different factors - where are we both in location and in our lives in general (age, health, past experiences, etc), who else is around (do we feel like we need to be the protector or do we feel someone else there is going to take charge), etc.

When I was 18 I worked in a bank and we had an in-service about what to do in the event of a robbery. Video of an actual robbery was shown and it was pretty graphic. This was a long time ago - before all of the mass shootings, etc and the bank was in a "safe residential area".

A week later a man that I didn't recognize as a customer walked up to my counter with one hand in his jacket and quietly said, "give me two packs of large bills. Now!" When people describe their heart stopping or dropping into their stomach I can fully understand what they meant. I couldn't speak or move. My flash thought was, "he's done this before and knows the bait money (that would trigger an alarm when pulled) is $20's which is why he wants large bills" and "I'm going to die and leave my son without a mom" (I was a single mom with a 6 month old baby).

When I didn't move or speak he repeated himself while moving the hand in his jacket. I can still "see myself" as I reached into my drawer, took out two packs of $100's and dropped them to on the counter as I backed up - thinking I have a better chance of surviving being shot if I can get a little distance between us. He then took two packs of $20's out of his jacket and dropped them on the counter, picked up the packs of $100's (an even exchange), laughed and walked out of the bank.

All I remember is turning and walking to the back and going downstairs to the break room as if I was frozen. Who knows how my response would be if this happened now - with age, experiences, etc. I hope to never find out.

Wow. Do you think it was set up to get employees some experience? Otherwise, what an idiot.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if the girls were caught trespassing. Or conversely, their bodies were purposely placed on private property as a vendetta against the landowner. It seems noteworthy that they were found just over the private property line.

How would that theory connect with the suspect parking his car from noon to 5pm near the Monon trail head? If he had a connection to any particular private property in order to be aware of trespassers, wouldn’t he have parked there instead?

 

[Peppery]

Is it possible not everyone in town follows this case? I know we do, but how many people pay attention to local news?

I don’t know...this is much more than just local news. A double murder in a small town has to be on the radar of everyone who lives in or near Delphi.

 

[Yellow Rose]

I'm blown away that people witness the obvious dedication and emotion of LE handling this case, see that two years later they're continuing to work the case hard and develop new info, and decide LE is incompetent and they know better and can do better.

I see this attitude very time a case isn't solved immediately and 99.9% of the time we find that LE has been working the case competently and hard until it could be resolved.

I'm not LE but I've followed a lot of cases and have seen what the investigative process is during trials and pretrial discovery. It's astounding. They almost always have info we never dreamed of.

Of course LE isn't infallible and there are times when they fail to work the case properly, follow the right leads or give enough attention to a case. Sometimes they go after someone unjustly as in the Tonya Craft case.

But it usually becomes quite apparent when LE is dropping the ball. The first indication is when the victim's loved ones begin speaking out and expressing a lack of confidence in the investigation and investigators. Sometimes that's just frustrated family. Especially when there's a schism between two factions of family members and one side suspects the other.

But at this stage if we saw loved ones expressing a lack of confidence or criticizing LE a lot or doing an end run around LE and producing their own evidence for the public (the latter like Elizabeth Smart's family finally had to do when LE wouldn't let go of the Ritchie angle and they released a sketch of why turned out to be the real perp), then there would be some merit in questioning the efficacy of LE.

I'm seeing nothing to suggest LE isn't fully dedicated and competent.

Except for people who are or have been LE, none of us can fathom how to do this job and how complex and difficult it is.

"The information being released today is literally the result of thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts, by Delphi, Carroll County, the FBI, Indiana State Police, and countless other agencies."

Yeah, they're all incompetent. They don't know what they're doing. We can do better.

Not IMO.

It chaps my hide a bit.

Thanks for putting into words what so many of us wished to express!

 

[MassGuy]

you know what chaps my hide? to see a sketch of the killer of these two young girls that police kept hidden from the public for two years. This is a killer on the loose for two years! The children's safety comes before any punishment. This sketch should have been released along with the make and model of the car parked at the CPS building.

There is a particular arrogance that is exhibited by the public in cases like this.

The idea that they know better than law enforcement, even though they don’t.

These are trained investigators from reputable organizations. Organizations that have tremendous experience in handling cases like this.

They know things that we don’t, and have considerations based on information that we are not privy to.

You don’t release a sketch of a guy that you don’t believe is involved.

You don’t put out information that you believe will prove detrimental.

There is a time and a place for criticism, this ain’t it.

 

[margarita25]

How do I demand that this top voice analyst I saw on Forensic Files examine the audio? I posted about him somewhere lol. University of Ohio maybe?

ETA:
Wooops, I just saw @MassGuy ‘s post above haha. Delete lol!

 

[puppyraiser]

IMO something happened in early April of this year and things have progressed. The prosecutor who retired came back, the latest press conference was more emotional and different from any of the others and a 'new' POI image presented. I'm wondering if there was an arrest of an individual for a different crime from the general area in this time frame. If so, has that person been suspected by locals for committing the murders and possibly other crime(s)?

 

[MistyWaters]

We won't know until more audio is released. I really hope more is, because what they have given up now is just not enough. I think I read somewhere that the LE do not release more audio because the suspect doing the crime during most of the audio (please correct me if I am wrong). If he was just chatting with the girls then it wouldn't be an issue to release more audio.

I know many people have expressed the opinion the amount of audio released is not enough but if you know anyone who you think was the driver of the car parked at 300N on Feb 13/17 and who more or less fits the description of sketch #2, why not just go ahead and report it anyway? I’m curious how more audio would be helpful?

Also remember what Carter said, about the killer wanting to know what they know? We can be sure he certainly does because he probably wasn’t aware he was even being recorded by Libby and that’s a reason why LE is withholding as much information as possible. JMO

 

[crhedBngr]

I’ve convinced myself I’m way better looking than my selfies indicate.

LOL! My laugh for the day.

 

[holtzmann]

The children's safety comes before any punishment.

You mean... like... making sure that they have the right perpetrator in custody and not starting a witch hunt in the public toward every single person that remotely looks like or has ties to things that you, murder inc, deem suspicious?