Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[sumzero]

I think the killer was not seen by anybody on the trail and that’s the reason he proceeded to commit the murders. If he had been seen he’d have abandoned his plan that day and the girls would’ve been picked up by DG, nobody none the wiser of the abolished plot. Premeditated murders don’t necessarily proceed regardless...preplanning often involves mitigating arrest. In an outdoor wooded trail area with very few people coming or going, his odds of not being sighted were quite good, unfortunately. JMO

Bingo! I think you're right. He more or less kept out of sight until it was time to strike. He then exited through the woods to his vehicle. I doubt anyone even saw him.

 

[MistyWaters]

Early on, LE said they had ID'd everyone on the trails except BG.

Yes sure they did and I don’t believe that’s ever changed.

 

[tresir2012]

I think the killer was not seen by anybody on the trail and that’s the reason he proceeded to commit the murders. If he had been seen he’d have abandoned his plan that day and the girls would’ve been picked up by DG, nobody none the wiser of the abolished plot. Premeditated murders don’t necessarily proceed regardless...preplanning often involves mitigating arrest. In an outdoor wooded trail area with very few people coming or going, his odds of not being sighted were quite good, unfortunately. JMO

He was seen they have sketches and multiple witnesses.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm not the smartest person nor do I murder people but even if he was local or somewhat local give or take 50 miles, do you actually think he is sticking around?

LE are saying local. They didn't say that initially. They have recently (April) changed track to state this. It is significant IMO. So he is local, and someone local should know him therefore. MOO.

 

[TL4S]

I think the killer was not seen by anybody on the trail and that’s the reason he proceeded to commit the murders. If he had been seen he’d have abandoned his plan that day and the girls would’ve been picked up by DG, nobody none the wiser of the abolished plot. Premeditated murders don’t necessarily proceed regardless...preplanning often involves mitigating arrest. In an outdoor wooded trail area with very few people coming or going, his odds of not being sighted were quite good, unfortunately. JMO

This is kind of what I think, too. I've heard it said that some of the witnesses who contributed to the sketches saw him on the trail, and LE has said they have a witness, but I'm not sure what to make of those statements. What's fact, what's fiction, and could these people have seen him somewhere other than the trail?

This is another reason why I keep coming back to the idea of him driving by when the girls were dropped off, parking in a secluded spot, walking the woods to the north end of the bridge where he could see if anyone was around before he moved in on them.

Originally I thought maybe he walked past them at some point and something happened to p*ss him off (he said something and then didn't like their response). In that case, though, I figure he'd have already been hiking on the trail, and likely seen by others.

It's perplexing.

 

[susiQ]

We really have to be guided by LE on this. Originally a local was suspected, then a non local transient type, now LE are saying a local or someone with local ties. This has been the major problem with this investigation IMO. Now Delphi are looking inwards and everyone local is suspect. So what is suspect? Grand parents or parents from Delphi. Someone 18 -40. Ok narrow that down and LE will have a pool of suspects to work from. Has this person offended before? If 18 then probably no. If 30+ then hell yes. There is a large pool of suspects. Anyone who is into statistics could perhaps work it out starting from the base of 3,000 +- inhabitants. LE should have the resources to work this out and check them all. MOO

The only thing I would add is they must include the surrounding areas, rural areas and places like Kokomo, West Lafayette, Lebanon and such. Big methamphetamine problem in that area involving locals from Delphi and those from surrounding communities that seem to cross paths. JMO

 

[TL4S]

Well some of us have managed to work it out and they could put out an appeal if they don't know. They said BG was the only person who had not come forward so they have to know who was there. They have not put out an appeal for persons who were there to come forward have they? I may have missed it, I admit.

Yes, I don't know for sure, either. If they had cameras at the trailheads, or something like that, they could say for certain, but I doubt it. The problem is that BG won't come forward, and if nobody on the trails that day saw or recognized him, that avenue is closed.

I think about surveillance footage from around the area, which may not add up to much. Obviously whatever LE has hasn't been enough. And it's so sad that Libby even caught him on camera, and that hasn't been enough.

 

[tresir2012]

But how can LE know every single individual who was there that day? Some people will come forward to admit they were there, others will describe everyone else they remember seeing on the trail, but what about the people who came and went unnoticed? Who maybe didn't see anybody else that day?

If I ride my bike on a trail, and the next day am asked to describe every person I saw on it, I probably would have no idea, unless I knew them. I'm not saying LE shouldn't check every person on the trail that day, but they have to know who each person is first. JMO

But if LE asked for people to come forward, you would right? So people come forward, are interviewed and say who they saw that day. LE did all that initial work in days and BG was the only one not to come forward. So he's the perp. There were witnesses. Now they are saying he is from Delphi? Why are they saying this after more than 2 years? What info led them to that statement? Was it witness testimony, DNA, someone lying initially, this is what we do not know.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well some of us have managed to work it out and they could put out an appeal if they don't know. They said BG was the only person who had not come forward so they have to know who was there. They have not put out an appeal for persons who were there to come forward have they? I may have missed it, I admit.

LE has not put an appeal out recently, no. Probably because they have no reason to do so as it was done virtually immediately during PCs seeking information iirc.

I also recall a comment made a while ago, that LE know everything about what occurred....it’s the identity of the suspect they lack. That also follows the request that people not send in investigative tips, they’re only interested in information pertaining directly to a possible suspect.

 

[tresir2012]

The only thing I would add is they must include the surrounding areas, rural areas and places like Kokomo, West Lafayette, Lebanon and such. Big methamphetamine problem in that area involving locals from Delphi and those from surrounding communities that seem to cross paths. JMO

I completely agree. So why did Carter only mention Delphi? This is what I do not understand. Where is he getting a Delphi perp from?

 

[Jax49]

Did they girls cross the creek?

Yes.

According to this 2017 interview with Sgt. Holeman, he believes they did. Start about the 10:00 mark.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[TL4S]

But if LE asked for people to come forward, you would right? So people come forward, are interviewed and say who they saw that day. LE did all that initial work in days and BG was the only one not to come forward. So he's the perp. There were witnesses. Now they are saying he is from Delphi? Why are they saying this after more than 2 years? What info led them to that statement? Was it witness testimony, DNA, someone lying initially, this is what we do not know.

Right. That's the question we've all had, especially since the last PC. Clearly, of the people who were on the trail that day, of the one's who came forward, of the ones who might have seen him, none of them recognized him.

LE has said that the vehicle they were asking about at the PC was important because it led them to think he was local, and got around quickly. I don't have a link, so I'm paraphrasing, but that's something.

 

[Chad_York]

Hello Chad_York!
Not sure you'll find a consensus here but lots of varying speculation
BUT, since you asked, I'll jump in a give you mine.
I am absolutely convinced that BG is local to the area, perhaps not Delphi proper but local and has "connections" to individuals there either family and/or "associates." BG grew up around the bridge and knew exactly how to get around quickly, over the bridge, through the creek and knew the lay of the land. I believe it is related to the seedy world of drug making, dealing, stealing and snitching.
ALL, my personal speculation at this point in time. MOO, JMO and all that good stuff

Thanks, SuziQ. I'm convinced that BG was NOT transient. He knew of the area and certainly had an idea of what he was doing. The question becomes, what was the motive? Was he in some way mentally troubled? Was he employed in the area and did any businesses report a strange incident wherein an employee suddenly quit or skipped town?

 

[sumzero]

He was seen they have sketches and multiple witnesses.

The first sketch, to which a witness(es) contributed, has been discounted. The person in the second sketch, to my knowledge, was not seen on the trails. So, there's no way to know if he had anything to do with the murders. It could be a person who had a good reason to be in the area but, because the sketch is not detailed enough (or accurate enough), doesn't even realize he is the one depicted in the sketch.

 

[Stella]

To me, BG looks like he's wearing an old fashioned hunting hat with flaps hanging down the ears. Well worn Timberland boots on his feet; you buy them beige but with age, they turn a dark brown. His jacket looks stuffed with things that could be a gun, rope and knife. Are we looking for a hunter/sportsman? There is a deer lookout in those woods, where deer hunters sit high up in trees to scout for deer at distances and animal tracks of deer, fox, etc have been found out there.

 

[MistyWaters]

Did they girls cross the creek?

Yes.

According to this 2017 interview with Sgt. Holeman, he believes they did. Start about the 10:00 mark.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

Thank You! It must’ve taken quite a bit of time for you to locate this confirmation and I appreciate it. That’s one item officially off the list of what might not be factual - the bodies were indeed found across the river.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

RUK, I have to completely agree with you on this post and I thought exactly the same as you.

Thank you tresir2012!

 

[sumzero]

I completely agree. So why did Carter only mention Delphi? This is what I do not understand. Where is he getting a Delphi perp from?

DC made a number of statements about what they "believe" or "think" about the killer. I imagine he was making statements that had a good chance of being true, based on percentages, hoping that if he was right on a couple of them, it might make the killer nervous. Then, if the killer became nervous, someone near him might notice and report their suspicions to LE. That's my take.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I completely agree. So why did Carter only mention Delphi? This is what I do not understand. Where is he getting a Delphi perp from?

I think Carter wanted to emphasize that BG has ties to Delphi, not that he is necessarily from Delphi or a current or longtime resident. Carter said something to the effect that the murder might live in Delphi, or have previously lived in Delphi, or work in Delphi, or visit often. With whatever LE knows about the crime scene flow, and their opinion that BG 'got around quickly' (whatever that means), they believe that only a person who is very familiar with the trails and surrounding area would be able to commit this crime. LE also believes that he is 'hiding in plain sight' which means he is blending in to the community.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

The first sketch, to which a witness(es) contributed, has been discounted. The person in the second sketch, to my knowledge, was not seen on the trails. So, there's no way to know if he had anything to do with the murders. It could be a person who had a good reason to be in the area but, because the sketch is not detailed enough (or accurate enough), doesn't even realize he is the one depicted in the sketch.

How does one get a composite from someone with so many clothes on and whats up with his head gear? Is it a hat , hair, helmut...what? How can someone think that sketch is the BG and if that is how he looked when he is seen--well for all we know it could be a woman. All I suspect is someone seeing someone dressed to kill, cause they sure seem covered creepy!