Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

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BradB said:
I dont blame LE either. It's just a difficult case even with video and audio because everything is just so basic.

I go back to the fact there had to be some connection of this guy knowing they were going to be there. Even if the connection is the smallest, there has to be something.

What are the odds some random predator was hiking or random guy and just flipped a switch and stalked not one but two random girls. Even with rape on your mind, why try to rape 2? It just doesnt make sense.
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And yet while it may not make sense, it does happen. My mom and I were accosted, held up at gun point, and almost abducted and there was only one of him and two of us. If someone hadn't just happened by at the same time then things could've been much worse. We think that the dude just thought we'd be easy prey because we were two women alone on a darkened street. That's kind of what I think happened with Abby and Libby-I think he thought that with them being young, they'd be easy prey. That he went there with the intentions of hurting a woman and they just happened to be wrong place, wrong time. It's also possible he was in his vehicle and saw them being dropped off, alone, at the park.

I swear I'm not trying to power post. This is just the only time I'll have internet access today.
 
mtnlites said:
I'm actually in agreement with you about the "elephant in the room", but as far as SC, KiK, etc. couldn't the same be said about most things these days? People use the various platforms for whatever their needs may be-and sometimes that "need" is disturbing, if not downright criminal. Instagram isn't all about pictures of people's dinners, Facebook isn't just sharing family vacation and doctor appointment updates, Twitter isn't just a place to try to outdo each other with one liners, Craigslist is more than trying to sell someone your old water heater, and You Tube isn't just videos of dancing cats. For that matter, the park itself in Delphi is, like most other nature settings, not just where people go to hike or take pictures. So far LE hasn't provided us with any information that would indicate they think this is a crime rooted in social media or that there is an internet connection to the case at all.
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Yeah, I could be WAY off here, but IMO, if he was an internet/SM whiz and that was his connection to the girls, I think he would have possibly noticed them using the cell phone from only 60 feet away and maybe even figured they might be on SM at the time, especially if he'd used SM to set up a meeting, as has been suggested before. He doesn't seem to have thought much of anything about leaving Libby's phone behind, so it's just my personal belief that this isn't SM related.
 
TL4S said:
Yeah, I could be WAY off here, but IMO, if he was an internet/SM whiz and that was his connection to the girls, I think he would have possibly noticed them using the cell phone from only 60 feet away and maybe even figured they might be on SM at the time, especially if he'd used SM to set up a meeting, as has been suggested before. He doesn't seem to have thought much of anything about leaving Libby's phone behind, so it's just my personal belief that this isn't SM related.
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Perhaps he did find it and thought he had destroyed it. It was found "in the general area" IIRC.
 
mtnlites said:
The whole "my husband/brother/son/partner/mail carrier had his DNA taken and LE cleared him" persistence makes me side eye anyone other than the victims' families. Kelsi saying they were cleared? Totally believe it. Random Wally Web? Not so much. I think it's a lot like lie detector tests-LE tells the people what they need them to hear and that's not always the truth. If someone were TRULY cleared like that and that person was receiving public attention, IMO LE would make some kind of public statement. This is a murder case, not a middle schooler arguing about cheating on a test. Clearing someone takes more than the equivalent of "you can't say anything mean to me because my mommy said I was innocent".
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Great post!
 
sumzero said:
"On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person."

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies
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Ok so the ISP Sargent is saying OBG sketch is not the same person as NBG sketch and ISP Superintendant is saying killer may wind up being a combination of the two sketches.

I don't know what to think.
 
tresir2012 said:
I don't know what you mean by this. You can't see his hair, or he's bald, you can't see anything, it's a bad video what?
Somehow LE know he has reddish brown hair either from the video or some other means. I believe his head is covered by a hat however some believe it is hair. MOO

ETA results of a poll on the last thread
25 thought it was a hat
9 thought it was a hoodie
4 thought it was hair
that they could see.
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Might have found reddish-brown hairs at the crime scene?
 
TL4S said:
To me it says maybe neither sketch looks like the guy.
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That’s exactly the point imo

It’s a sketch based off of witnesses recollections

Certain characteristics of each of the sketches may or may not be accurate

They were given by to different individuals who may or may not be remembering things completely accurately

Witness descriptions have been historically hit and miss at best unfortunately

I think the video and audio were much more critical for somebody who knows BG to be able to identify him

Unfortunately nobody has suspected somebody they know enough to contact authorities

Or they have and investigators have been unable to link the individual to the crime with hard evidence
 
tresir2012 said:
Somewhere between the two?

Round and round we go :)
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Some great posts today.

I think what is important from a 'trying to make sense of the case' perspective is not neccessarily the accuracy of the sketches but what was it that made LE not think YBG sketch worthy of issuing early, then favouring OBG over YBG, then dismissing OBG in favour of YBG sketch.

Either
Its a desperate 'what the Hell' punt

Or

Something has happened to validate YBG sketch. And/or invalidate OBG sketch
 
TL4S said:
Random subject change. Feel free to scroll and roll. No tetchiness, please. ;)

Today I measured out 60 feet. That's what I think has been established as the distance BG was from the girls in the bridge video. 60 feet and closing.

It's not all that far. On a quiet trail, I honestly think he would have been able to hear them talking, unless they were speaking very softly. We don't know that information, but it does make me wonder a few things.

Did they discuss the trail ending before the video clip we've seen? If so, I wonder how long they watched him coming. Maybe it's not important, but the closer they let him come, the more I wonder if maybe they planned to hang out in hopes he would turn around and recross. If I felt uncomfortable with somebody, I would not want them following behind me on a tall bridge, I'd rather be the one behind, so I'd wait...but that's just me.

When the photo of Abby was taken, he wasn't behind them. So again, I wonder if either he moved in quickly, or the girls waited at the end of the bridge for awhile. This is probably important only to me because it makes me second guess my idea of them taking the woods and crossing the creek in order to avoid him. Not sure they'd wait until the very last second to do that. IDK

I believe it was @Justice101 who mentioned BG recrossing the bridge and hiding at the north end for the girls, then taking them down the east side of the creek to their final location. This really does seem plausible. I still can't understand why he would cross the bridge twice if he planned to do something to them, though. Why not just hide at the north end and wait? Justice101 suggested he first made them uncomfortable at the south end of the bridge, but that doesn't explain them videoing him. I'm so confused...
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BBM

So I've been aware of the 'fact' that BG was recorded by the girls from about 60ft away for some time now, but it wasn't until your post TL4S that I stopped to think about how far, or close, 60 ft actually is. And I agree with you, it is not all that far. For those of us that use the metric system, its only 18 meters. On smooth terrain this could be covered in a matter of seconds. So this really reinforces for me that Libby turned on the recording as the crime/terror was beginning. This could explain why the quality of the image was so low. In a calm state she was able to get a very clear and artistic photo of Abby on the bridge, but in the midst of panic she was not able to get a very clear shot of BG. It also makes me think that there is very little other video for LE to analyze. I imagine the rest is audio.

Also, LE did say the girls were killed within minutes of the recording. It has been debated on here whether 'minutes' could mean 5-10 or hundreds, and while we don't know the TOD it is clear in my mind that the girls were in trouble at the time of the recording. I do not think that Libby recorded BG on the bridge, only to have him recross or go through the woods and attack them at some other point. I think whatever happened started at the SE end of the bridge.
 
HockeyMom330 said:
BBM

So I've been aware of the 'fact' that BG was recorded by the girls from about 60ft away for some time now, but it wasn't until your post TL4S that I stopped to think about how far, or close, 60 ft actually is. And I agree with you, it is not all that far. For those of us that use the metric system, its only 18 meters. On smooth terrain this could be covered in a matter of seconds. So this really reinforces for me that Libby turned on the recording as the crime/terror was beginning. This could explain why the quality of the image was so low. In a calm state she was able to get a very clear and artistic photo of Abby on the bridge, but in the midst of panic she was not able to get a very clear shot of BG. It also makes me think that there is very little other video for LE to analyze. I imagine the rest is audio.

Also, LE did say the girls were killed within minutes of the recording. It has been debated on here whether 'minutes' could mean 5-10 or hundreds, and while we don't know the TOD it is clear in my mind that the girls were in trouble at the time of the recording. I do not think that Libby recorded BG on the bridge, only to have him recross or go through the woods and attack them at some other point. I think whatever happened started at the SE end of the bridge.
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I was really pretty surprised when I saw how close 60 ft was. I've heard that Libby shot the video over her shoulder, like with her back to BG? I don't know if that's fact. Anyone?

But yeah, we could all theorize forever on what happened between the S end of the bridge and the location the girls were found, but without knowing if they crossed the creek, it's all guessing.
 
HockeyMom330 said:
BBM

So I've been aware of the 'fact' that BG was recorded by the girls from about 60ft away for some time now, but it wasn't until your post TL4S that I stopped to think about how far, or close, 60 ft actually is. And I agree with you, it is not all that far. For those of us that use the metric system, its only 18 meters. On smooth terrain this could be covered in a matter of seconds. So this really reinforces for me that Libby turned on the recording as the crime/terror was beginning. This could explain why the quality of the image was so low. In a calm state she was able to get a very clear and artistic photo of Abby on the bridge, but in the midst of panic she was not able to get a very clear shot of BG. It also makes me think that there is very little other video for LE to analyze. I imagine the rest is audio.

Also, LE did say the girls were killed within minutes of the recording. It has been debated on here whether 'minutes' could mean 5-10 or hundreds, and while we don't know the TOD it is clear in my mind that the girls were in trouble at the time of the recording. I do not think that Libby recorded BG on the bridge, only to have him recross or go through the woods and attack them at some other point. I think whatever happened started at the SE end of the bridge.
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This is not a contest between us all, but if they didn't go across the creek.. him marching them back across the bridge would be extremely risky that someone would approach from the north.

So I still believe the video shown and the words said were several minutes apart. Maybe she videoed him on the south end, then when he went to the north and they came up on him and he pull a weapon on them, somehow she started the video/audio recording on her phone.

But this is all speculation.

Just can't wait for the perpetrator to be arrested!
 
TL4S said:
I was really pretty surprised when I saw how close 60 ft was. I've heard that Libby shot the video over her shoulder, like with her back to BG? I don't know if that's fact. Anyone?

But yeah, we could all theorize forever on what happened between the S end of the bridge and the location the girls were found, but without knowing if they crossed the creek, it's all guessing.
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Gray Hughes is friends with the family and on one of his videos he said he has it on very good authority that she was holding her phone down by her leg.
 
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