Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[Gardenista]

Ah, maybe that's what I'd heard. Thank you! So she was, likely, trying to be covert.

Yes, and Gray used words similar to that. I'd give you a link, but I'm not sure which video it was.

 

[x_files]

Do we know they were sexually attacked? Although that is usually the motive sadly, I did not see where that was released by LE that they were raped.

If that is not the case, then I personally think something they did that day set him off and he marched them down the hill and attacked them just to kill them.

I go back and forth on the motive. without more info we have no clue. Sexual predator or an unstable violent person who flipped out.

 

[book-thinker]

Gray Hughes is friends with the family and on one of his videos he said he has it on very good authority that she was holding her phone down by her leg.

It makes sense she was holding her phone down by her leg. Most teenagers, including my grandson if
approached by adults will hold the phone down by the leg.

Libby had the foresight to she record his voice and get a snapshot of him.

This guy is pure evil. I believe he will be brought to justice and locked up for life.

 

[BNA]

I'm actually in agreement with you about the "elephant in the room", but as far as SC, KiK, etc. couldn't the same be said about most things these days? People use the various platforms for whatever their needs may be-and sometimes that "need" is disturbing, if not downright criminal. Instagram isn't all about pictures of people's dinners, Facebook isn't just sharing family vacation and doctor appointment updates, Twitter isn't just a place to try to outdo each other with one liners, Craigslist is more than trying to sell someone your old water heater, and You Tube isn't just videos of dancing cats. For that matter, the park itself in Delphi is, like most other nature settings, not just where people go to hike or take pictures. So far LE hasn't provided us with any information that would indicate they think this is a crime rooted in social media or that there is an internet connection to the case at all.

We have discussed the pitfalls of apps like Kik and have posted info about them. That is as far as we can go as the girls SM are no longer up except for Libby's Twitter. LE will certainly have looked into the SM angle IMO.

Yes. Certainly LE is not naïve. And, there is no reason for them to reveal what they know about this. I do hope that all parties have been honest with LE about what they know about this. This may be one of the things that we are told we will understand when an arrest is made.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yeah, I've considered that, too. He stomped on it or something. But again, I think if he was young and highly into SM technology, he'd know that wasn't enough.

If he was just kinda into SM he’d know how to create a difficult to trace account. You don’t need a phone number or legit email to create accounts for some SM platforms. You don’t have to put your real name or any real info about yourself. You can create and access the SM account with a burner phone bought with cash. You don’t need to provide any real info to set up one of those either. If you use the data on a burner phone or public WiFi to set up the SM account how would LE identify this person? Identification is doable, but not quick and easy.

You don’t have to be super tech savvy to know these things. You just have to be familiar with the various SM platforms. Some are more conducive to setting up shady accounts. SC and KIK would be the easiest.

Edit: He May have known he was difficult to trace and didn’t care all that much about the phone. He may not have been aware that he was recorded and just got really lucky that the recording is so blurry and indistinguishable. Who knows at this point. Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

 

[mtnlites]

That’s exactly the point imo

It’s a sketch based off of witnesses recollections

Certain characteristics of each of the sketches may or may not be accurate

They were given by to different individuals who may or may not be remembering things completely accurately

Witness descriptions have been historically hit and miss at best unfortunately

I think the video and audio were much more critical for somebody who knows BG to be able to identify him

Unfortunately nobody has suspected somebody they know enough to contact authorities

Or they have and investigators have been unable to link the individual to the crime with hard evidence

And that's one of the reasons why I wasn't putting much stock into the fine details of the sketches. You know, someone looks at it and says, "One eye is bigger than the other!" or "The shading on his cheek could be a scar..." Many people treat sketches like photographs, but they're based on recollection and are therefor open to human error. Descriptions can be subjective and memory faulty. How I see someone may not be the same way as you do. My big thing has always been that if BG did have a scar or a noticeable feature on his face, LE would include that in the public release. It wouldn't benefit them to keep such things to themselves, especially if they're trying to identify BG. Sorry-that was a long-winded way of saying I agree with you-the audio/video are probably going to be the most reliable and useful for identification.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I go back and forth on the motive. without more info we have no clue. Sexual predator or an unstable violent person who flipped out.

I am an amateur, so know nothing more than anyone else speculating on this case. The actions seem to align textbook to that of a sociopath. Flat verbal affect, no empathy. This was the kid in the neighborhood who mutilated animals and abused younger weaker children. As a teen, he didn't date, or at least more than once. He just creeped the heck out of girls. And yeah, this has to be ringing a bell for someone.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rainwaterstill]

As I've said before, I'm about 50-50 as to whether or not this dirtbag has murdered before. However, I do believe he has committed other sexual crimes that did not end up with a murder. What knocks that theory out is the fact that we have a sketch here. To my knowledge - and I don't know what has been called in with regard to tips - there are no news stories of a victim coming forward stating he was the person who assaulted or molested them. Of course, if the victim was a minor maybe someone has come forward but LE has not disclosed this due to the victim's age.

MOO- I believe he has committed other crimes as well. The answer to who he is is most likely in one of Indiana's thousands of untested rape kits that have not been sent to labs. How Indiana’s largest police department tests rape kits

Depending on which news source, Indiana has between 3,000-5500 untested kits.

 

[rainwaterstill]

We dont know anything in regards to what motivated this and I wish we did.

If we're under the belief this was a random attack then we have to believe we have some lunatic on the loose somewhere doing the same thing over and over

Prosecutors are under no legal requirement to provide a motive, as someone with a legal background mentioned about 3 threads ago.

 

[BNA]

If he was just kinda into SM he’d know how to create a difficult to trace account. You don’t need a phone number or legit email to create accounts for some SM platforms. You don’t have to put your real name or any real info about yourself. You can create and access the SM account with a burner phone bought with cash. You don’t need to provide any real info to set up one of those either. If you use the data on a burner phone or public WiFi to set up the SM account how would LE identify this person? Identification is doable, but not quick and easy.

You don’t have to be super tech savvy to know these things. You just have to be familiar with the various SM platforms. Some are more conducive to setting up shady accounts. SC and KIK would be the easiest.

Edit: He May have known he was difficult to trace and didn’t care all that much about the phone. He may not have been aware that he was recorded and just got really lucky that the recording is so blurry and indistinguishable. Who knows at this point. Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

I am looking at it from another angle. What if the motive has to do with his not having an alt account? What if he had used one of these apps in a nasty way using his regular name or regular user name, learned that he had done it with a minor or minors (unintentionally---as he had intended only adult contact), and decided that he needed to eliminate a witness or witnesses to his nasty behavior? Add on to that the possibility that his actions against these two girls was a case of mistaken identity.

This kind of behavior with an app and involving minors is clearly illegal and would involve public embarrassment and an unpleasant prison experience. What if he wanted to avoid that at all costs?

None of this is the fault of any of the girls. Let me be clear on that. The guy chose to murder. Nobody forced him to murder.

I have a hunch that LE has not let this possibility get past them. I think that it is among the things that they cannot tell us at this time.

Certainly a lot of speculation, but no more implausible than him having stuffed everything but the kitchen sink down his pants.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I am looking at it from another angle. What if the motive has to do with his not having an alt account? What if he had used one of these apps in a nasty way using his regular name or regular user name, learned that he had done it with a minor or minors (unintentionally---as he had intended only adult contact), and decided that he needed to eliminate a witness or witnesses to his nasty behavior? Add on to that the possibility that his actions against these two girls was a case of mistaken identity.

This kind of behavior with an app and involving minors is clearly illegal and would involve public embarrassment and an unpleasant prison experience. What if he wanted to avoid that at all costs?

None of this is the fault of any of the girls. Let me be clear on that. The guy chose to murder. Nobody forced him to murder.

I have a hunch that LE has not let this possibility get past them. I think that it is among the things that they cannot tell us at this time.

Certainly a lot of speculation, but no more implausible than him having stuffed everything but the kitchen sink down his pants.

This is very interesting to me.

 

[gregjrichards]

MOO- I believe he has committed other crimes as well. The answer to who he is is most likely in one of Indiana's thousands of untested rape kits that have not been sent to labs. How Indiana’s largest police department tests rape kits

Depending on which news source, Indiana has between 3,000-5500 untested kits.

This is an absolute disgrace and it needs addressed.

 

[dub]

I had a random thought/hypothesis related to narrowing down the wide age range given for BG. Essentially, I'd really like to know the age of the person or persons who saw BG that day and provided the description/age range.

The hypothesis is this (this is IN GENERAL and does not take into account perps who actually do look older or younger than their age):

-Someone substantially older than the person they're identifying is likely to think the person is younger than their actual age

-Likewise someone substantially younger is likely to think the person is older than they actually are.

-Someone of similar age is likely to be relatively accurate.

-I'm less sure of this, but I think that if someone is in the same ballpark age-wise (within, say, 10-15 years, whether older or younger) they may tend to skew the other person's perceived age a little bit toward their own.

I had this happen twice in the past few days, which got me thinking about it in terms of identification.

The first time (the "substantially older" principle), I was at a bar and a guy who I'd guess was in his 60s (who in fairness was real drunk and so not the best judge) came up to me and started hassling me about being too young to be in the bar (i.e., under 21). I'm 36. Even after I made clear to him that I was more than plenty of-age I asked him how old he thought I actually was and he said 27.

[To be clear, I do look younger than my actual age; most people think I'm around 30, but it's almost unheard of for someone to legitimately think I'm 15 years younger than I am].

The second time (the ballpark-age principle) I was also at a bar haha and my wife and I were hanging out with some random people we'd met there. Afterward she asked me how old I thought this one woman was in the group, I guessed 40 or maybe a little older. She was 50.

Just thought I'd throw this out there to see if others (particularly in age ranges different from my own) have noted similar or quite different perceptions in themselves or others. I'd never really thought about it before so I haven't extensively thought it through, much less looked into actual research on the subject.

In terms of this case, the wide age range might suggest to me that there were at least two witnesses who were quite different from one another in age, but I dunno, like I said it's just a theory.

 

[ab01]

I am an amateur, so know nothing more than anyone else speculating on this case. The actions seem to align textbook to that of a sociopath. Flat verbal affect, no empathy. This was the kid in the neighborhood who mutilated animals and abused younger weaker children. As a teen, he didn't date, or at least more than once. He just creeped the heck out of girls. And yeah, this has to be ringing a bell for someone.

Amateur opinion and speculation

WOW you got a lot out of that tiny little clip and soundbite, I'm not sure a professional could even make such conclusions

interesting

 

[x_files]

MOO- I believe he has committed other crimes as well. The answer to who he is is most likely in one of Indiana's thousands of untested rape kits that have not been sent to labs. How Indiana’s largest police department tests rape kits

Depending on which news source, Indiana has between 3,000-5500 untested kits.

yep...they answer could be right there. Why isn't rape a priority?!

 

[book-thinker]

I dont blame LE either. It's just a difficult case even with video and audio because everything is just so basic.

I go back to the fact there had to be some connection of this guy knowing they were going to be there. Even if the connection is the smallest, there has to be something.

What are the odds some random predator was hiking or random guy and just flipped a switch and stalked not one but two random girls. Even with rape on your mind, why try to rape 2? It just doesnt make sense.

I'm not sure a random predator would be hiking the Monon high bridge trail waiting for young girls. Or if a unstable
male flipped out and went into a rage and killed the girls. Was this killer waiting in the woods for the right victims?

Libby's sister mentioned the girls hoped for a ride to the trail. I would understand the girls telling their friends
they wanted to go hiking, but it wasn't a sure thing.

I'm having a hard time finding the connection a killer was hoping the girls would show up when it wasn't a sure thing.

I do have questions about the search? . The girls were found 1/2 mile from the trail. I don't remember if
this area had been searched the day the girls went missing. Libby's sister mentioned a search team found the girls
on the other side of the river. Had that area been searched the day the girls went missing?

Just two days ago in Seattle, Washington a 29 year male stabbed 3 people on the streets of downtown Seattle. He
randomly sought out 3 strangers with no motive beyond being mentally unstable.

 

[Imvp2]

Libby asked Kesli to take them while she was getting ready to go to a friends house (after saying no a few times during the week)

This to me, was new information. The girls asked during the week to go to the bridge. This makes me feel that they may have wanted to meet up with someone

 

[JnRyan]

MOO- I believe he has committed other crimes as well. The answer to who he is is most likely in one of Indiana's thousands of untested rape kits that have not been sent to labs. How Indiana’s largest police department tests rape kits

Depending on which news source, Indiana has between 3,000-5500 untested kits.

And compared to some other states that is low. So if he did this in nearby KY, OH or IL, we can probably add more possibilities.

 

[JnRyan]

This is an absolute disgrace and it needs addressed.

Oh, it gets worse. Some states years ago received funding to process untested kits. But some jurisdictions didn't process all of them. For those states that had a statute of limitations on rape - 10 years for some - they threw out the kits over the statute of limitations. I guess no one stopped to think about the possibility of a serial rapist being in there and the the more recent ones.

 

[Jax49]

This to me, was new information. The girls asked during the week to go to the bridge. This makes me feel that they may have wanted to meet up with someone

After listening again, to clarify, she had turned her sister down "during the week, for her to do other things". No mention of wanting to go to the bridge earlier. moo