Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[BradB]

It wouldnt be that hard to prove with video and audio. Remember, they have more than what they have released.

 

[Justice101]

I'm afraid to say it but it might be them playing their last hand because they have truly nothing.

IMAGINE: You are in LE and you have literally collected and analyzed everything you could possibly get from the scene of the crime. You also have posted a (blurry) photo of the perpetrator to a huge TV audience who wants to help. And.. you posted audio of his actual voice. And no luck!

However, you may know who it is and cannot get the extra proof required to actually arrest them.. or even worse... the person does not live locally and nobody is on the radar who fits everything. I cannot imagine the frustration being involved in this investigation.

This stuff happens. It maybe nobody's fault they haven't made an arrest. It could just be that the facts are missing or even totally unattainable (no DNA left, nobody saw the person up close at the time, etc.) . If it is a total stranger who chose this spot because he once knew it well.. then moved on to his real residence out of state for example and IF his DNA is not registered... then you are just clueless. You can spend hundreds of hours telling people WHO IT ISN'T... but cannot spend 1 minute telling them who it is. Again, I cannot even imagine how frustrating that would be.

 

[BradB]

I dont blame LE either. It's just a difficult case even with video and audio because everything is just so basic.

I go back to the fact there had to be some connection of this guy knowing they were going to be there. Even if the connection is the smallest, there has to be something.

What are the odds some random predator was hiking or random guy and just flipped a switch and stalked not one but two random girls. Even with rape on your mind, why try to rape 2? It just doesnt make sense.

 

[Justice101]

I dont blame LE either. It's just a difficult case even with video and audio because everything is just so basic.

I go back to the fact there had to be some connection of this guy knowing they were going to be there. Even if the connection is the smallest, there has to be something.

What are the odds some random predator was hiking or random guy and just flipped a switch and stalked not one but two random girls. Even with rape on your mind, why try to rape 2? It just doesnt make sense.

Do we know they were sexually attacked? Although that is usually the motive sadly, I did not see where that was released by LE that they were raped.

If that is not the case, then I personally think something they did that day set him off and he marched them down the hill and attacked them just to kill them.

 

[ab01]

I have always been wondering if they started taking dna bucal samples from people in the beginning to compare with dna that they hoped they had recovered from the crime scene. And after the lab tests came back they found they didn’t have a viable sample. Yet they are still taking dna bucals from people they interview Incase new evidence is discovered.

As far as people being cleared through dna, I don’t believe that is accurate.

I believe some have been cleared based on alibis etc, but I’m not sure anyone has been cleared via dna

Jmo

Quoting myself to add

I'm sure we have all seen social media rumors that investigators came to different suspects homes and interviewed them and took a Dna bucal sample and they were immediately cleared .

I can assure you of one thing, Dna comparisons do not work that way, while the testing can be done in a matter of hours the reality is it takes time to schedule and get the tests completed and results back from the lab.

And in fact many times LE won't even tell an individual weather they have been completely cleared, its usually more along the lines of everything seems to check out, If we need anything more we will be in contact

Now obviously it appears some suspects have been cleared but I am doubtful that DNA had anything to do with it.

Also I don't believe a parabon snapshot/Ged match has yet been done

If it had, they would have released a parabon snapshot of the suspect, Instead of at least the second sketch IMO

While sketches can be hit or miss based on a number of factors

A Parabon snapshot is indicative of unique characteristics based solely on ones own unique DNA

Additionally I don't believe either of the two sketches released have any details that would be indicative of a Parabon rendering

I think if they had Dna that was of a good enough quality to do these tests, that they would have been done long ago

 

[TL4S]

Random subject change. Feel free to scroll and roll. No tetchiness, please.

Today I measured out 60 feet. That's what I think has been established as the distance BG was from the girls in the bridge video. 60 feet and closing.

It's not all that far. On a quiet trail, I honestly think he would have been able to hear them talking, unless they were speaking very softly. We don't know that information, but it does make me wonder a few things.

Did they discuss the trail ending before the video clip we've seen? If so, I wonder how long they watched him coming. Maybe it's not important, but the closer they let him come, the more I wonder if maybe they planned to hang out in hopes he would turn around and recross. If I felt uncomfortable with somebody, I would not want them following behind me on a tall bridge, I'd rather be the one behind, so I'd wait...but that's just me.

When the photo of Abby was taken, he wasn't behind them. So again, I wonder if either he moved in quickly, or the girls waited at the end of the bridge for awhile. This is probably important only to me because it makes me second guess my idea of them taking the woods and crossing the creek in order to avoid him. Not sure they'd wait until the very last second to do that. IDK

I believe it was @Justice101 who mentioned BG recrossing the bridge and hiding at the north end for the girls, then taking them down the east side of the creek to their final location. This really does seem plausible. I still can't understand why he would cross the bridge twice if he planned to do something to them, though. Why not just hide at the north end and wait? Justice101 suggested he first made them uncomfortable at the south end of the bridge, but that doesn't explain them videoing him. I'm so confused...

 

[BradB]

We dont know anything in regards to what motivated this and I wish we did.

If we're under the belief this was a random attack then we have to believe we have some lunatic on the loose somewhere doing the same thing over and over

 

[dotr]

Sister of murder victim debunks rumors about still-open case
Updated: 11:55 AM, Jul 10, 2019
"Kelsi German, Libby’s older sister, has been especially involved in the case, creating social media accounts and holding a panel along members from both families and Indiana State Police at Crime Con this year.

Kelsi German has also been very vocal in her efforts to debunk rumors being spread about the family and the case. There have been so many in fact, that she felt the need to address them publicly in a live chat Tuesday evening.

Some of the rumors involved things that happened the day Libby and Abby went missing, others were about family members and things entirely unrelated to the case.

Kelsi German also started with a detailed timeline of exactly what happened the day she dropped Libby and Abby off at the Monon High Bridge in Delphi."

 

[TL4S]

Another random thought.

When Libby's father asked a man if he saw two girls on the bridge, and the man said, "no, but I saw a couple under the bridge," I wonder if he meant he saw a couple of girls there, and those girls were A&L. So it then makes me wonder if maybe that man kind of thwarted BG's plan. Maybe the girls went under the bridge to avoid talking with BG, and they stayed there. BG saw this man starting across the bridge, or on the trail, so he decided to go back across. It would have looked suspicious hanging around the end of the trail with two girls underneath. Then the girls crossed? Just more guessing...

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Yes, this could be a random crime of opportunity. It happens all the time in our mobile society here in USA. Police say the perp is local and they may have already interviewed him. That is the frustrating part for me. C'mon. Arrest him! And put the cuffs on TIGHT!

 

[Cutiekitty]

It wouldnt be that hard to prove with video and audio. Remember, they have more than what they have released.

Dbm

 

[mtnlites]

This is my hope too but alas, I think also wishful thinking, regrettably. BG looked "covered" from head to toe.

Like all of you, I really hope they are able to nail the killer that did this, so the family has some answers to who and possibly why, and failing that, I hope he is already behind bars for something unrelated to this and never again walks a free man. JMO

Yeah, I have lots of hopeful scenarios when it comes to this case-none of them particularly realistic.

 

[mtnlites]

>at least 39 posters disagreed

39 different people saw three different things on one head. That in and of itself highlights the uncertainty the still and video provide regarding the appearance and garments of "bridge guy".

We have no idea what contributed to the varying sketches.

I assure you this wasnt a DNA generated detail. We'd have much more than hair color and a general description if they had DNA.

There have also been people who have seen puppy dogs dangling off the side of the bridge, a goat stuffed down BG's jacket front, and at least a few people in Internetland were fairly convinced for a while that BG was not only not Caucasian, but a woman in disguise. So yes, you're right. There aren't many conclusions that can be concretely drawn from the video still. Like you, I think the physical description was taken from eyewitnesses.

 

[mtnlites]

We dont know anything in regards to what motivated this and I wish we did.

If we're under the belief this was a random attack then we have to believe we have some lunatic on the loose somewhere doing the same thing over and over

To be fair, there seem to be a lot of lunatics running around out there.

 

[BNA]

We dont know anything in regards to what motivated this and I wish we did.

If we're under the belief this was a random attack then we have to believe we have some lunatic on the loose somewhere doing the same thing over and over

I am basically in agreement with some of your recent posts.

I think the reason "we don't know" the motivation is because "we don't want to" or "we cannot" seriously discuss some of the elephants in the room.

For example, we discussed SC and Kik as if all anybody ever does with that junk is take pretty, outdoorsy pics, post them, and then folks "follow" them.

No.

That's not it. That's not it at all.

And, I believe what "it" is may well be at the core of the motivation and opportunity of the perp. JMO.

 

[mtnlites]

Quoting myself to add

I'm sure we have all seen social media rumors that investigators came to different suspects homes and interviewed them and took a Dna bucal sample and they were immediately cleared .

I can assure you of one thing, Dna comparisons do not work that way, while the testing can be done in a matter of hours the reality is it takes time to schedule and get the tests completed and results back from the lab.

And in fact many times LE won't even tell an individual weather they have been completely cleared, its usually more along the lines of everything seems to check out, If we need anything more we will be in contact

Now obviously it appears some suspects have been cleared but I am doubtful that DNA had anything to do with it.

Also I don't believe a parabon snapshot/Ged match has yet been done

If it had, they would have released a parabon snapshot of the suspect, Instead of at least the second sketch IMO

While sketches can be hit or miss based on a number of factors

A Parabon snapshot is indicative of unique characteristics based solely on ones own unique DNA

Additionally I don't believe either of the two sketches released have any details that would be indicative of a Parabon rendering

I think if they had Dna that was of a good enough quality to do these tests, that they would have been done long ago

The whole "my husband/brother/son/partner/mail carrier had his DNA taken and LE cleared him" persistence makes me side eye anyone other than the victims' families. Kelsi saying they were cleared? Totally believe it. Random Wally Web? Not so much. I think it's a lot like lie detector tests-LE tells the people what they need them to hear and that's not always the truth. If someone were TRULY cleared like that and that person was receiving public attention, IMO LE would make some kind of public statement. This is a murder case, not a middle schooler arguing about cheating on a test. Clearing someone takes more than the equivalent of "you can't say anything mean to me because my mommy said I was innocent".

 

[mtnlites]

I am basically in agreement with some of your recent posts.

I think the reason "we don't know" the motivation is because "we don't want to" or "we cannot" seriously discuss some of the elephants in the room.

For example, we discussed SC and Kik as if all anybody ever does with that junk is take pretty, outdoorsy pics, post them, and then folks "follow" them.

No.

That's not it. That's not it at all.

And, I believe what "it" is may well be at the core of the motivation and opportunity of the perp. JMO.

I'm actually in agreement with you about the "elephant in the room", but as far as SC, KiK, etc. couldn't the same be said about most things these days? People use the various platforms for whatever their needs may be-and sometimes that "need" is disturbing, if not downright criminal. Instagram isn't all about pictures of people's dinners, Facebook isn't just sharing family vacation and doctor appointment updates, Twitter isn't just a place to try to outdo each other with one liners, Craigslist is more than trying to sell someone your old water heater, and You Tube isn't just videos of dancing cats. For that matter, the park itself in Delphi is, like most other nature settings, not just where people go to hike or take pictures. So far LE hasn't provided us with any information that would indicate they think this is a crime rooted in social media or that there is an internet connection to the case at all.

 

[sunshineray]

Forgive me if this was asked. I don't have cable. Does anyone know how I can watch the ID channel episode?

I just checked the ID Channel's free stuff and the Still a Mystery: Down the Hill show doesn't seem to be there. Try searching You Tube?

 

[mtnlites]

Do we know they were sexually attacked? Although that is usually the motive sadly, I did not see where that was released by LE that they were raped.

If that is not the case, then I personally think something they did that day set him off and he marched them down the hill and attacked them just to kill them.

And it could've just been his perception of what went on. If someone is disturbed enough, they'll sometimes find any reason to go off. True story: a man followed me all the way back to my hostel in Galway once and tried to sexually assault me because I'd been "flirting" with him all night when the only interaction we'd had was when I pardoned myself while squeezing past him to go to the bathroom.

 

[tresir2012]

We have discussed the pitfalls of apps like Kik and have posted info about them. That is as far as we can go as the girls SM are no longer up except for Libby's Twitter. LE will certainly have looked into the SM angle IMO.