Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

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The search stopped at 10 p.m. and started again in the morning I understand. So there was a time when no search activity was taking place IMO.

Mike Patty said the official search was called off close to midnight but other people searched all night long. MP continued to search well into the early hours of the morning. The official search resumed at daybreak.
 
ATV's were used on the trails in the searches that day and evening. It's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities that the murderer used an ATV to move the bodies under cover of darkness or even pretending to be, or actually being, part of the search imo. LE were not there after midnight so they would not have known would they? I'm pretty sure the maintenance workers on the trails use ATV's too rather than schlepp all their gear around manually. MOO

Not totally outside the realm but I have a hard time believing LE would withhold the info if that was a dump site. They would know if they were killed elsewhere. JMO.
 
Mike Patty said the official search was called off close to midnight but other people searched all night long. MP continued to search well into the early hours of the morning. The official search resumed at daybreak.
Kelsie said 10 p.m. but I am talking about the official search. Unofficial search, then anyone could and probably was out there all night - not disputing that at all, that is when the perp could have been out there hiding in plain sight IMO. In fact, he would have possibly been conspicuous by his absence, so he joined the search and could even have moved the girls then. MOO.
 
Not totally outside the realm but I have a hard time believing LE would withhold the info if that was a dump site. They would know if they were killed elsewhere. JMO.

Nothing would surprise me with this LE.
 
Not totally outside the realm but I have a hard time believing LE would withhold the info if that was a dump site. They would know if they were killed elsewhere. JMO.

Additionally we have heard nothing about atv tracks, horse tracks leading to the bodies.

But we have heard from searchers and family members about footprints leading to the bodies

JMO
 
I'm gonna be a pain again. FSG saw BG at 2.47 . Is this after the murder DWK? Where did FSG see him? then he sees couple at 2.55. Couple of girls? Man and woman? This seems vital IMO. Have you some more info on these times? Really appreciate your input.

Do we know if FSG saw the 'new' younger looking BG who LE say is the face of the guy on the bridge or if he saw the older, scruffier guy who was the face of the composite? FSG may have saw a man that was initially assumed to be BG but is now not a POI and didn't really see the true killer at all.
 
I'm honestly not sure if that's not likely where it did in fact begin

It's highly likely that it did start as most investigations do with people known to the victims, people with a connection to the specific area of the crime scene etc and then moved out from there.

I truly think this case is almost certainly hampered by a lack of physical evidence recovered from the crime scene that could be used to tie to a specific individual JMO

With video, audio of the suspect and witness descriptions, If LE had any useful physical evidence they would have almost certainly had a suspect in their cross hairs long ago IMO

Additionally the tools are there to use parabon snapshot, Gedmatch etc. Something is holding them back from using those tools and Its my belief that its the lack of a viable Dna profile

I Think investigators were very hopeful early on that when they sent items in to be tested that the lab would be able to extract an unkown male DNA profile (BG's)

Unfortunately I don't think that ended up being the case

Its no fault of investigators IMO they can only work with the evidence that they were able to recover IMO

If the evidence wasn't there well its simply not there and its going to take some new information to be discovered in order to resolve this case
I don't believe LE has DNA from the suspect and as you have noted if they do, the sample is not viable.

LE has been cagey about the DNA evidence. Yes they have DNA evidence but they do not say whose DNA evidence. Could be touch DNA from people they came in contact in the course of their day prior to the murders, DNA from the searchers and of course they have the girls DNA.

There is, in my thoughts, no positive reason for LE to withhold from the public if they do in fact have the suspects DNA, however if they do not have the suspects DNA and LE were to tell the public they did not have the suspects DNA that would give the suspect a sense of relief.

The only positive reason not tell the public if they have the suspects DNA is because they do not. MOO

I have not heard LE say they have eliminated suspects due to DNA. There have been a number of suspects I believe. I have heard this happening in other cases. But maybe this is something they just aren't telling the public in this case. I have only heard that they have collected DNA from family members.

I think LE in this case is having to rely on more conventional types of evidence and who knows what they have if anything other than the audio and video.
 
From my transcript of GH's interview with BP:

So when Derrick got done taking his pictures in Frankfort, he came back to pick Libby up. He came up 75 and came across the country roads to pick Libby up, ‘cause it’s the easy way. That’s the way we always go, that direction. That’s just how you do here. So he – when he was – there’s a bridge – it’s called Wilson’s Bridge – and he said as he was crossing that bridge he called her again. We checked phone records and it was at 3:11 that he called her to tell her – he was going to tell her, “Hey, start heading towards the trailhead. I’m gonna be there in a minute or two”, you know, but she didn’t answer. So when he got to the trail…– to the drop off point, he called her again. And that on our phone records show at 3:14, and he told me that as he was getting out of the car, he called her. So at that point she didn’t answer so he started walking up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit. He looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he started walking towards the High Bridge.

He was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older guy, a gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge, and he asked him, “Did you see a couple of girls there?” and he said, “No, but there’s a couple down underneath”. So Derrick, instead of going to the High Bridge, took the trail that went down to the creek to where he said that the couple was there. I don’t even remember if he said he saw them or what but he came walking back up and he called me. That was when he called me – it was about 3:30 – and said, “Libby’s not answering her phone and I don’t see her”. So we told him that we would – Tara works with me – so I started calling her and then Tara called and messaged. We sent several messages. We would take turns calling. Derrick did walk down to the Freedom Bridge and walked back. He passed that older gentleman again and – so he went
back to the car and he was, like I said, he was walking, and by this time it was about 4 o’clock.
Thanks for that. It is as I remember. One thing, which end of the bridge did FSG see the couple? The creek end (north) or the private road end (south). It seems like DG didnt see the couple so I would guess FSG saw them at the private road end - if so that is significant IMO.
 
I highly recommend that everyone listen to the new YouTube video of an interview with Julie Melvin “Delphi Murders – Let’s Meet the families”. As many would know, Julie provided her bridge video (which is shown during the interview) to Gray Hughes. As she is Cody’s aunt, and her sister is his mother, she is well placed to discuss the family dynamics, and they’re very interesting. You’ll also learn about Libby’s relationship with her mother and what were to be their future plans.

Abby’s family is also discussed in some detail.

The video is only 17 minutes long but well worth listening to.
 
Thanks for that. It is as I remember. One thing, which end of the bridge did FSG see the couple? The creek end (north) or the private road end (south). It seems like DG didnt see the couple so I would guess FSG saw them at the private road end - if so that is significant IMO.

The end of the bridge closest to the trail and drop off point,, i.e. the NW side.
 
I'm honestly not sure if that's not likely where it did in fact begin

It's highly likely that it did start as most investigations do with people known to the victims, people with a connection to the specific area of the crime scene etc and then moved out from there.

I truly think this case is almost certainly hampered by a lack of physical evidence recovered from the crime scene that could be used to tie to a specific individual JMO

With video, audio of the suspect and witness descriptions, If LE had any useful physical evidence they would have almost certainly had a suspect in their cross hairs long ago IMO

Additionally the tools are there to use parabon snapshot, Gedmatch etc. Something is holding them back from using those tools and Its my belief that its the lack of a viable Dna profile

I Think investigators were very hopeful early on that when they sent items in to be tested that the lab would be able to extract an unkown male DNA profile (BG's)

Unfortunately I don't think that ended up being the case

Its no fault of investigators IMO they can only work with the evidence that they were able to recover IMO

If the evidence wasn't there well its simply not there and its going to take some new information to be discovered in order to resolve this case
I definitely agree that there is likely a lack of physical evidence which is hampering the investigation. But, I was referring to the initial focus on some "random" killer from goodness knows where having committed these murders. I am aware of the SW executed on BBR, but it appears not long after that the focus went elsewhere, away from Delphi and area. It is obvious now that they were going in the wrong direction for over 2 years, having only in April switched gears, focusing on a local connection. MOO
 
I try to think of what kind of evidence LE could actually have.

There was a cigarette found, but that was found in the water. I'm not sure which way the current is moving or where it was found but unless it was caught up in some brush against the embankment near the crime scene I would guess it could have come from anyone, could be from a searcher who flicked it into the water while on the bridge. Possibly under garments found tangled up in some brush on the water edge...

What else could the suspect have left behind? Shoe prints, a piece of his clothing, a weapon??
 
Does anyone know how to check incarceration records/release dates for Carroll County? I know I've done it before but now I can't remember where....help!
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for in regard to incarceration and release dates. But the search will give you details about court cases .
Case Search - MyCase
 
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