Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[rosesfromangels]

I'm not sure that means they weren't placed that way by the murderer though, necessarily. Carter says they are not how he left them so that is to be considered too. E.g the murderer left them side by side therefore? Difficult to imagine they were murdered where they lay.
AJMO

Where does he say this?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Carter says they are not how he left them so that is to be considered too.

Where does he say this?

The statement has no context. It was made by Carter in the April 22 presser:

"I recently watched a movie called The Shack, and there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity. To the murderer – I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left, and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, is not what they’re experiencing today".

 

[CSIDreamer]

This shows criteria for an Amber alert. It is clear that they could/should have called it IMO. They may have then had access to thermal imaging helicopters or other such assistance.

Amber Alert: Broadcast Guidelines

What is a “Qualifying Abduction?”

1. The child must be under 18 years of age.
2. The child must be believed to be abducted, and in danger of serious bodily harm or death.
3. There must be enough descriptive information to believe the broadcast will help.
4. Request must be recommended by the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction.

That is all that was needed to call it.

Even if they had called the police asap then by the looks of the time BG was likely seen at Freedom Bridge, the girls were already dead and he was getting away, so it wouldn't have helped anyway it seems.

Bumping the INDIANA Amber alert guidelines as we are still discussing them. No description of an abductor or vehicle needed.

They had no reason to believe the girls had been abducted. Let alone a description of the vehicle. Even if they tried to issue an AMBER alert, I would say it would not have been approved. The guidelines are very specific and there for a good reason.

 

[sunshineray]

Where does he say this?

He said that at the April 2019 press conference. I'm paraphrasing..." Let me assure you they are not the way you left them now"

 

[tresir2012]

Where does he say this?

In the PC. (JJ has posted the exact reference).

ETA. Also sunshine has explained too I see.

 

[tresir2012]

They had no reason to believe the girls had been abducted. Let alone a description of the vehicle. Even if they tried to issue an AMBER alert, I would say it would not have been approved. The guidelines are very specific and there for a good reason.

I have nothing to show the belief at the time, except for some reason they did not suspect foul play. The Indiana alert doesn't mention anything about a vehicle but mentions it is down to LE to call it.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have nothing to show the belief at the time, except for some reason they did not suspect foul play. The Indiana alert doesn't mention anything about a vehicle but mentions it is down to LE to call it.

What evidence was there for LE to call that indicated the girls had been abducted and were in danger of seriously bodily harm or death when the missing persons report was initially filed?

All that was known at the time was they weren’t at the pickup location and Libby wasn’t answering her phone. No sightings of two teens being abducted, no 911 calls, no screams, nothing was reported to have occurred that afternoon .....which assumably was the reason foul play wasn’t initially suspected.

 

[kc1023]

This Amber Alert came out from Gary, IN the morning of Feb 13, 2017 and has been speculated to have impacted somewhat the response in Delphi IMO.

Amber Alert issued for missing 15-year-old girl in Gary

As I recall, the girl in this alert turned out to have been involved in the murder of her mother and there was speculation that the Amber Alert was improperly used in this case as they possibly knew she wasn't missing or abducted but used the AA to find her for the crime which is not it's intended use. There was a fair amount of discussion in the earliest threads regarding this alert and it's influence, if any, on the Delphi girls.

 

[BNA]

Mystery deepens as officials search for 'key' in girls' murders

Hadn't seen this article before.

"Walsh said it's likely the killer is "very close to the investigation" and is likely "trying to take the temperature of the investigators to determine what they know and how hot on his trail they are."

"It's not unlikely he could have been a volunteer in the search" for the girls that first day they went missing, Walsh added."

Well, I think he is partially correct. But, let's think carefully of other ways the killer could have put himself close to the investigation for that same reason.

 

[tresir2012]

I understand the find-site is pretty unique. It is not visible from the bridge, or from the riverbank or trail. This must mean very intimate knowledge of the site. So, RL must be the key to identifying those people who knows his property well. That feels like a manageable group to "cover".

I've also been wondering about the white object in the jacket. Personally I think it is rope (because the outline seems flexible and the bulk is low). I know the rumours about the COD. Does anyone know if hanging has ever been posited as a potential COD in any reliable source?

Valid point but historically RL initially had verbal diarrhoea but since his place was searched and he was convicted of breaking his probation, he has clammed up. Even more noticable now is why he was imprisoned for such a seemingly minor infraction when many other repeat offenders do not get such severe treatment.
Re. The rope, could it be a white rope horse halter? This only just occurred to me.

Traditional White Cotton Rope Showing Headcollar / Halter for sale online | eBay

MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Well, I think he is partially correct. But, let's think carefully of other ways the killer could have put himself close to the investigation for that same reason.

Ok go on then........
.....

 

[Jamie737]

...
Re. The rope, could it be a white rope horse halter? This only just occurred to me actually.

MOO.

Well yes, exactly. Or a lasso. For all we know.

 

[PaulaDC]

This shows criteria for an Amber alert. It is clear that they could/should have called it IMO. They may have then had access to thermal imaging helicopters or other such assistance.

Amber Alert: Broadcast Guidelines

What is a “Qualifying Abduction?”

1. The child must be under 18 years of age.
2. The child must be believed to be abducted, and in danger of serious bodily harm or death.
3. There must be enough descriptive information to believe the broadcast will help.
4. Request must be recommended by the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction.

That is all that was needed to call it.

Even if they had called the police asap then by the looks of the time BG was likely seen at Freedom Bridge, the girls were already dead and he was getting away, so it wouldn't have helped anyway it seems.

Bumping the INDIANA Amber alert guidelines as we are still discussing them. No description of an abductor or vehicle needed.

I just read an old article that was quoting Libby's other Grandfather. According to what I read they originally thought maybe the girls had headed to Libby's Mother's house out of state, then he mentioned that they possibly had gone to the (18/19) year old brother's house to spend the night. I(don't recall a brother ever being mentioned for either of them before in any interviews.) Well my point is they seemed to think they were just being teens on a rebelous mission from what I understood his comments to be.

 

[tresir2012]

I just read an old article that was quoting Libby's other Grandfather. According to what I read they originally thought maybe the girls had headed to Libby's Mother's house out of state, then he mentioned that they possibly had gone to the (18/19) year old brother's house to spend the night. I(don't recall a brother ever being mentioned for either of them before in any interviews.) Well my point is they seemed to think they were just being teens on a rebelous mission from what I understood his comments to be.

Yes but had they ever done anything like that before? And they had the SC story with suddenly phone going to answer phone just an hour later and the pings revealing they were still near the two towers so that doesn't make sense really that anyone would think that.

 

[Krwiley60]

Good post.

I do worry that the section/paragraph of the April Press Conf that you refer to and the appeal to the Perp's Christian sense of right/guilt, along with the 'we know it's about power for you...' etc is so blatantly taken from a textbook on behavioural profiling and unrelated to any sure knowledge of an individual/s they have in their sights. Moo

I agree with you. Scripted straight from the FBI’s behavioral analysis unit.

 

[PaulaDC]

Here's the article mentioning "brother"
Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes but had they ever done anything like that before? And they had the SC story with suddenly phone going to answer phone just an hour later and the pings revealing they were still near the two towers so that doesn't make sense really that anyone would think that. Who was Abbey's/Libby's 18 yo brother? Does anyone know?

I think the prompt action of the family in filing the missing person report so quickly and the diligence of the initial search efforts by LE and volunteers was commendable, even though those actions proved futile in locating the missing girls that same night. Nobody could predict the outcome and an Amber Alert wouldn’t have resulted in the girls being rescued from an abductor.

IIRC its against TOS to sleuth family members.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you. Scripted straight from the FBI’s behavioral analysis unit.

I agree, several of Carter’s comments are directly related to this one trait common in profiling a killer.

• Excessive attention to the investigation, media coverage or lengthy discussions related to the murders

FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail

 

[tresir2012]

I think the prompt action of the family in filing the missing person report so quickly and the diligence of the initial search efforts by LE and volunteers was commendable, even though those actions proved futile in locating the missing girls that same night. Nobody could predict the outcome and an Amber Alert wouldn’t have resulted in the girls being rescued from an abductor.

IIRC its against TOS to sleuth family members.

I won't change my mind about the wrong decisions re the Amber Alert and LE standing down the search that night.

I'm not sleuthing I'm referring to a MSM article that quotes him and have never heard of him before.

AJMO

 

[Jamie737]

I agree, several of Carter’s comments are directly related to this one trait common in profiling a killer.

• Excessive attention to the investigation, media coverage or lengthy discussions related to the murders

FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail

None of it appears terribly sophisticated, TBF. I watched a superb Australian program the other night and part of a profile there that was fascinating was that killers in somewhat remote areas can always be shown to have detailed knowledge through previous visits of those areas. That wasn't mentioned at all. Nor was, for that matter, if the assailant would have been wet or covered with blood.

That almost makes me think he was neither.