Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[TL4S]

I just don't buy it that someone nobody knew was hanging and wandering around there with so many people about. LE think this too by their recent PC "may be in this room". At the very least he had help to get away IMO.

In my mind, he wasn't hanging and wandering, at least in the sense of looking for somebody to kill. I think he was either driving by and saw them dropped off, or he was hiking, or there for other reasons I can't even imagine. It's impossible to tell. But I've been to my same small town park a hundred times and honestly never saw the same people more than once. Parks tend to draw a wide variety of people, for a wide variety of reasons. And, I will easily drive 15-20 miles to go to a park. If you live in a rural area, you have to, and it's no big deal. So "local" to me, is a large area.

BG very well could be one of the many suspects people have suggested, but he could also be somebody else entirely. Personally, I think it was random. But, I'm open to listening to the idea they were targeted. I have to be open to that because I don't know what really happened.

 

[Theforeigner]

I just don't buy it that someone nobody knew was hanging and wandering around there with so many people about. LE think this too by their recent PC "may be in this room". At the very least he had help to get away IMO.

Carters statement at the press conference:
“We believe you are hiding in plain sight”
and even “may be in this room,”
He also said“We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you"

Made me think This:

LE may have already conducted a genetic genealogy DNA investigation
and have through that found out what family the killer belong to.
But possibly because the family is very big and the construction of the family
is very complicated, and not always logical, it is very hard for the police to
pinpoint who in that family is actually the killer.

So... I belive Doug Carten knew that one or several people from that family was present at the press conference and therefore he concluded that “he may be in this room” etc.

 

[tresir2012]

A CBS video about the PC. Don't remember if it has been posted already.

Also, foreigner, I agree with your thoughts below.

Carters statement at the press conference:
“We believe you are hiding in plain sight”
and even “may be in this room,”
He also said“We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you"

Made me think This:

LE may have already conducted a genetic genealogy DNA investigation
and have through that found out what family the killer belong to.
But possibly because the family is very big and the construction of the family
is very complicated, and not always logical, it is very hard for the police to
pinpoint who in that family is actually the killer.

So... I belive Doug Carten knew that one or several people from that family was present at the press conference and therefore he concluded that “he may be in this room” etc.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I agree. And I wonder actual paternity may be in question which could add to confusion. DNA text them all! RIP little ladies, praying for resolution to come soon.

 

[sunshineray]

None of that indicates someone the girls knew, either. Or even someone who knew the girls. Those things are directed towards the public as a whole, IMO, specifically that someone who might recognize the killer.

And they could have been targeted, as far as BG saw them that day and then decided to do something with them, whatever his motive was. It's frightening.

It is frightening to still have this heartless monster still free. I try to keep an open mind. Certain things though, as the language and attitude presented in that April PC, present a picture to the public of someone interviewed and then dismissed. Probably someone who was close to the actual investigation up until that point. It sounded like this person took advantage of that close situation to stay abreast of developments in the case. I think the mention of religion at that PC was pre-planned and tailored to a suspect. The words "could be in this room" were totally unnecessary to speak publicly from an investigative point of view. They were shocking and I believe they were meant to shock and to verify that LE knows the killer. These are all just my gut feelings. AJMO

 

[MJPeony]

Do you have a link to Libby's other Twitters? (You said more than one Twitter)

Good question, no I don’t- and as I’ve gone back to search for one I think I could be mistaken. (too late to edit my post).

I remembered reading something to that affect during the discussion on here regarding the image on her twitter account that is available to see online. But mods cut off the discussion and removed some posts, and now I can’t find anything. I also could have just misunderstood. All I can find is a post from you that only mentions her having multiple SM accounts but not multiple Twitter accounts.

“
tresir2012 said: ↑
Liberty German (@libby1227) on Twitter
While we are talking Kik, here is a link to Libby's Twitter which shows her Kik, SC and Instagram user names. <modsnip - naming a non-poi>
Liberty German (@libby1227) Tweeted: When a fly sounds like a bee and you run from it. #blondmoment XD Liberty German on Twitter
<modsnip: As per Social Media rules, screenshots not allowed>“

Sorry all- good example of how rumors are perpetuated if we don’t have links

 

[sunshineray]

This bit is what concerns me -

This team discards tips that already have been cleared and assigns investigators to follow up on new leads, Riley said.

Looks like a recipe for possible mistakes.

Eg. A tip on someone comes in who has been previously cleared, yet the tip has new info that is overlooked.
"Oh yeah Joe Blogs- he was cleared by his friend's alibi last week."

Overlooking info does happen, like Son of Sam's parking ticket. I think LE went back and started freshly looking at early tips again. I think it may have been spurred on by something the December 2018 DNA testing showed. JMO

 

[tresir2012]

Good question, no I don’t- and as I’ve gone back to search for one I think I could be mistaken. (too late to edit my post).

I remembered reading something to that affect during the discussion on here regarding the image on her twitter account that is available to see online. But mods cut off the discussion and removed some posts, and now I can’t find anything. I also could have just misunderstood. All I can find is a post from you that only mentions her having multiple SM accounts but not multiple Twitter accounts.

“
tresir2012 said: ↑
Liberty German (@libby1227) on Twitter
While we are talking Kik, here is a link to Libby's Twitter which shows her Kik, SC and Instagram user names. <modsnip - naming a non-poi>
Liberty German (@libby1227) Tweeted: When a fly sounds like a bee and you run from it. #blondmoment XD Liberty German on Twitter
<modsnip: As per Social Media rules, screenshots not allowed>“

Sorry all- good example of how rumors are perpetuated if we don’t have links

that serves me right for asking and to be given my own quote back at me.
So right about examples.

 

[MJPeony]

that serves me right for asking and to be given my own quote back at me.
So right about examples.

Ha- no no, I was quoting you to show you DID make yourself clear Was my own misunderstanding.

What I remembered reading about “2 accounts” isn’t there anymore, and wasn’t posted by you. ‘Twas rumor in the end.

 

[Krwiley60]

I think this was a completely random attack and he'd never seen either girl until that day. I also don't have any trouble believing that they didn't scream or make noise. Polly Klass was a random victim. He knew he wanted to hurt a female victim that evening, but he didn't know Polly. He broke into her house and was able to tie up the 2 other teen girls and abduct Polly without any screaming from them. Her mother was across the hall. Brian Mitchell was able to abduct Elizabeth Smart with her parents just a few feet away and there was no screaming. Even smart (no pun intended) and mature kids can be frozen with terror when they're threstened with death.

BG didn't have to know that the girls were goung to be at the park that day. If he was familiar with it then he most likely knew that SOMEONE would be there. You will almost always run into someone if you hang around there long enough. I go there for quiet walks and photographing pretty scenery-not because I want to be alone. I always run into at least a couple of people unless I go really early in the morning.

Maybe it didn't matter who. He very well could have been driving by, or parked, and saw the girls go in. Maybe he was parked by the old building shooting something up and saw them dropped off. Or maybe he was out there rage walking and tweaking and just crossed paths with them. Or perhaps he WAS there stalking someone else, but changed course when he saw the girls.

I don't have a POI because without a COD or certain other pertinent info I think it could be almost anyone at this point. The OG sketch looked like most every middle-aged man I know around there, and now the new one looks like all the young guys. I am not sold on the electronic or catfish angle, though. Sure, he could have followed them electronically- but he could have just as easily seen them by chance.

This is my theory as well. I love reading your posts!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Social Media links for Abby and Libby courtesy of @mpnola in the Media Thread.


"IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION"]IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION[/URL]

 

[Cryptic]

Also, why are LE saying he is local and constantly saying look at his mannerisms, look at his walk, someone recognizes him, he's hiding in plain sight. None of these indicate a stranger do they?

In a non-targeted scenario, one can be a local person, and still be a stranger to the girls.

Such a person would have been loitering in the area with a pre-disposition to commit a horrible crime if the circumstances were “right”. He then approached the victims as convenient targets in the “right” circumstances.

At the end of the day, the area is rural, but not so rural the victims would know at least in general terms all local people.

 

[susiQ]

It is frightening to still have this heartless monster still free. I try to keep an open mind. Certain things though, as the language and attitude presented in that April PC, present a picture to the public of someone interviewed and then dismissed. Probably someone who was close to the actual investigation up until that point. It sounded like this person took advantage of that close situation to stay abreast of developments in the case. I think the mention of religion at that PC was pre-planned and tailored to a suspect. The words "could be in this room" were totally unnecessary to speak publicly from an investigative point of view. They were shocking and I believe they were meant to shock and to verify that LE knows the killer. These are all just my gut feelings. AJMO

And, I can't shake the feeling that the timing of certain other events around the PC, arrests for another murder, DA Ives becoming involved again and the "new direction" might give an indication they received "new" information resulting from the recent arrest that told them they missed something "early on." Perhaps a rumour, or even fact, they haven't been able to nail down. It may not point at one individual but perhaps a number of possible suspects they may have had motive. Just thinking. I have a suspect, as some others do, but I'm not 100% convinced anymore, as certain things in the PC wouldn't make sense. I'm still stuck on the same motive, but again, I realize I could be wrong. I just wish I knew "what THEY (LE) knew!"

 

[SilentRogue]

I agree. And I wonder actual paternity may be in question which could add to confusion. DNA text them all! RIP little ladies, praying for resolution to come soon.

If this theory were accurate, law enforcement would have obtained DNA from every male in that family by whatever means necessary. Being voluntary, abandoned property (styrofoam cup, cigarette butt, door handle), etc...

Despite the common idea here that DNA comparison takes several months, if law enforcement did have DNA, they would be able to expedite the process and obtain results in a matter of weeks if not days.

This is just obviously not accurate.

 

[TL4S]

In a non-targeted scenario, one can be a local person, and still be a stranger to the girls.

Such a person would have been loitering in the area with a pre-disposition to commit a horrible crime if the circumstances were “right”. He then approached the victims as convenient targets in the “right” circumstances.

At the end of the day, the area is rural, but not so rural the victims would know at least in general terms all local people.

Yes, here's a quick map* I made of a 10 mile radius around Delphi. Just counting the towns you can see within the circle on the map, the population is over 12,000, if I'm counting correctly. And that's only 10 miles. Within 20 miles you have well over 100,000. "Local" is relative, and IMO, anyone within 20 miles could work, visit, or have previously lived in Delphi.

*This is NOT a perfect population count. I'm taking general census numbers and probably not counting everything.

 

[Boxer]

If this theory were accurate, law enforcement would have obtained DNA from every male in that family by whatever means necessary. Being voluntary, abandoned property (styrofoam cup, cigarette butt, door handle), etc...

Despite the common idea here that DNA comparison takes several months, if law enforcement did have DNA, they would be able to expedite the process and obtain results in a matter of weeks if not days.

This is just obviously not accurate.

The DNA in this case was possibly hidden in fall leaves still on the ground. So it took longer than usual, but they have what they have now. Hopefully whatever was sent for further analysis in Dec 2018 came back as useful information. Maybe the April 2019 PC was based on that information. There wasn't anything new at the standard February 2019 PC.

 

[zoricaj1]

I have heard posters here state repeatedly that Libby was hurt more in the attack, though I have no idea how they could possibly have that information.

How would anyone know that...aside from the "she fought like hell" quote

 

[susiQ]

If this theory were accurate, law enforcement would have obtained DNA from every male in that family by whatever means necessary. Being voluntary, abandoned property (styrofoam cup, cigarette butt, door handle), etc...

Despite the common idea here that DNA comparison takes several months, if law enforcement did have DNA, they would be able to expedite the process and obtain results in a matter of weeks if not days.

This is just obviously not accurate.

I'm going to attempt a reply here and hope I don't confuse people

In another case here on WS, some on this thread may be aware of it, there was an item that needed to be tested but it was so small, that the process would be "consumptive". Now in that case, there is just SO much other evidence, it's just "one more piece," and still valuable if it belonged to the victim. The monster is in custody. Now, what if LE have all kinds of bits of DNA from the CS but some of it would be consumed with testing. Without a perp in custody, running that DNA is risky as a defensive attorney has the right to ask to be present during said test because it destroys the sample and therefore cannot be tested independently. If they have solid DNA and they have a suspect, surely even if the killer has no priors, they would have collected cast off items by now. JMT.

 

[zoricaj1]

can someone post or PM me the transcript from Aprils presser? from the very first word spoke to the very last word?

 

[TL4S]

How would anyone know that...aside from the "she fought like hell" quote

Long ago I read this quote somewhere, and it sounded like he was saying he thinks she would fight like hell. I'm not sure we have a true fact that she did, or even that she ever had the chance to.