Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Charlot123]

I notice another weird mannerism when playing it frame by frame that I've attributed to the uneven bridge ties, but when BG puts his left foot down and lifts his right leg, his whole neck and head and upper torso leans forward and over to the the left and kind of sways back to center when his right foot is fully lifted. Could be that he was off balance and/or turning to the left, but it's odd.

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

I do think he has some weakness of muscles of one leg, at least, or possibly, neuropathy, hence the odd gait. But if he is on certain psychotropic medications, he can also have torticollis, the spasm of neck muscles on one side. Or it could be inborn.

I chose this article for the photo in it.
Adult-onset Idiopathic Torticollis Wikipedia probably has better article.

 

[gregjrichards]

What possible scenarios would LE want the public NOT to know they have dna? I guess I don’t understand what advantage it would be to keep this secret or at least keep it questionable in the public eye. If it was A SA then the perp already knows he left a ‘sample’ behind. How does the official acknowledgment of dna hinder this case?

I wish we knew the situation with DNA. My suspicion is they have a DNA sample but it is compromised in some way and that is why a Parabon Labs DNA snapshot image has not been released.

 

[scruffydog]

On frame 31 and the next 4 or five frames his hood and whatever is sticking out with his hand in it appears camo to me as the colors look brown and green(s). moo

I've thought that too-that the hood really does not match the brown of the bottom of the hoodie. Sometimes it does look camo to me. Also-behind his neck looks like another hood -it's all bulky back there, and it doesn't seem to be part of the jacket. Could he have on 2 hoodies under that jacket? That would successfully bulk up his frame. By the way, I do believe it's a hood on his head, not a hat-or his hair-because if that's his haircut, then it's bizarre-and he has a point on the crown of his head-as in some of the pics-a pointy part at the end of a hoodie hood. (if that makes sense).

 

[scruffydog]

I'm not sold that the green thing is even there. Or green. I have seen this image altered every way from Sunday and this is the first time I have seen it. Unless LE releases a new, updated, still shot and the green thing is on it then I am going to go with 30/70 that it was manipulated by the user/real. LE, and WS, have asked people not to manipulate the image but it still happens.

Yes-I was just so surprised when I saw it-and like it said, I've have looked at the pics countless times! It's really a shame if someone is altering the pictures-when 2 young girls have been murdered.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wish we knew the situation with DNA. My suspicion is they have a DNA sample but it is compromised in some way and that is why a Parabon Labs DNA snapshot image has not been released.

Maybe the sketch of NBG is far better than Parabon could ever be. My perp looks exactly like the sketch. I've never seen a Parabon pic, which was so exact. The part of mouth and chin on Parabon pics are much too similar to every other Parabon pic/person, I think. I always wonder, why that can be.

 

[scruffydog]

At first, I thought Nahhh, and then I thought about something. What if there was another person waiting below the bridge? Could BG have used a game call to alert an accomplice to get ready, it's going according to plan? Is that why Libby started recording. We've speculated that he did something that made them uneasy.

Maybe I'm just tired and losing my mind

I have to say-I have wondered if there was some kind of gruesome set up at the place where the murders occurred. I don't even quite know what I mean by that-but with the speed that the whole scenario occurred in-it's been a thought in my mind. And yes-then an accomplice might make even more sense.

 

[CelticIre]

Law enforcement and investigators are really the only ones who need to know what they do or don't have for evidence in an ongoing case. I never regard them as sequestering it to stymie or be stingy; they simply have to protect the integrity and viability of the evidence in anticipation of arrest and prosecution. It's usually better, in my view, to be safe than sorry and keep as much under eyes as possible unless absolutely necessary. Whether or not any of those details are released is a dicey call; there's no public right to know any of it unless there's possible threat of harm to the populace -- and that's when LE has to decide how much to release, what to release, and how it's released.

It's frustrating, no doubt, for families and communities sometimes, because I think there's an innate human desire for action, to do something, to help. Plus there's our inherent curiosity. LE makes mistakes and is as human as anyone else, but this is also what they're trained for. There's always a reason why they make those decisions, and they have access and knowledge of far more information than the general public.

That being said...I hope one day soon they'll find this guy and can finally release more details, because to me this is one odd and particularly terrifying crime.

 

[susiQ]

I wish we knew the situation with DNA. My suspicion is they have a DNA sample but it is compromised in some way and that is why a Parabon Labs DNA snapshot image has not been released.

Yes-I was just so surprised when I saw it-and like it said, I've have looked at the pics countless times! It's really a shame if someone is altering the pictures-when 2 young girls have been murdered.

Wanted to bring these two posts together to explain the possible complexity in this case. Speculation only.

Yes, I think the pic is altered, but only by adding filters to enhance/highlight contours or objects. Even without that, something IS visible below or possibly hanging down from his mouth and a game caller is not all that "far out" as I first thought. IF it was to alert someone else as he was gaining on the girls close to the end of the bridge, and this crime did involve more than one person, this could also complicate the DNA at the CS. Never once do I recall LE saying they have DNA they believe belongs to the killer. Just a vague, they have DNA. Maybe not a lot and perhaps conflicting. They have not ruled out more than one perp. I am always perplexed by the speed in which this crime was committed which also takes me in this direction. JMO

 

[mtnlites]

Honestly, I can't see with a great deal of detail I would feel comfortable identifying with much confidence -- other than that the individual is bipedal, human, and male. I pretty much discount any judgment regarding his gait and stride, given both the physical challenge of navigating the bridge ties as well as the quality of the video images, and I wouldn't even begin to try guessing at specific items of clothing or facial features.

I do think it's highly likely that he's wearing more than one layer of clothing and that he's probably secreted some things under that jacket. Those are the only discernible details I feel any personal confidence observing, at least with these images.

I agree. Though it is interesting to speculate, none of us could be truly confident to say what is around his neck, what facial features he posseses, etc because it's not even so much that the image is blurry in that those fine details simply don't exist within the pixelation. IMO "clarifying" the image beyond what LE has done could put us down a slippery slope. When lay people manipulate photos in this matter they bring their own ideas and biases to the image. It CAN really hurt the integrity of the image and could possibly hurt the case-especially seeing what gossip and rumors have done so far.

Let's say, for instance, that Person A "fixes" or "enhances" the photo and suddenly someone sees BG vaping. Suddnely through the power of suggestion, others start seeing it too. The idea gets passed around enough that it starts being taken as fact. BG's girlfriend hears it and no longer wants to call the tipline because she knows her man doesn't vape.

 

[weepingangel]

A key piece of evidence left at the scene. The news boy hat comes to mind.

Ignore the hat

 

[rainwaterstill]

What possible scenarios would LE want the public NOT to know they have dna? I guess I don’t understand what advantage it would be to keep this secret or at least keep it questionable in the public eye. If it was A SA then the perp already knows he left a ‘sample’ behind. How does the official acknowledgment of dna hinder this case?

Possible Reasons for keeping DNA quiet:

1) They may have connected his DNA to other unsolved cases, either in Indiana or other states. Possible SK. "Don't terrify the public ".
2) The DNA may be such that some characteristics of the DNA may be carried by only a tiny percentage of people (i.e. a gene for albinoism or whatever), that substantially narrows a suspect pool. A suspect or suspect's family may be aware he carries a rare gene. If the family is not aware, why tip them off as LE builds a slam-dunk case? If they are aware, then DEFINITELY don't tip the suspect and/or his family off.
It is also now possible to narrow down DNA from identical twins, by examining more ( a longer length) of a strand of DNA from both twins.
3) They have narrowed the DNA down to a specific (large) family and are slowly eliminating the males as possible suspects.

 

[TL4S]

Sorry.....grab a drink....this is a long post!

There is a piece of information that I knew I remembered reading and hearing about very early on in the case that I have been searching for for ages and I finally found it!

I was honestly beginning to think I had dreamed it, because it seems like the article I remember reading can no longer be found with the direct quote from Carter. The 2nd link below with the article portion has been posted many times, but again, not as I remember reading it originally.

Once again, digging up some 'old news' is making me hopeful that this monster will be caught.

In this Fox 59 clip, Alexis McAdams talks about hearing from Carter about, 'A key piece of evidence at the crime scene that was linked to the killer'.

This is the newsclip.

These are some of the things I have pondered about them finding:

A weapon, a receipt, his clothing, a disguise if he wore one, keys, a lighter...I could be here all night!

Here is the article. It is missing the direct quote from Carter, but I have bolded some of the references to evidence.

FBI putting together profile of suspect accused of killing Delphi teens

It is snipped to comply with 10% rule.

"All that information provides police with clues as to what kind of things they should be looking for as they serve search warrants. That, paired with evidence found at the crime scene, could help solve the puzzle.

Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. "

I sincerely believe that LE is getting closer to making an arrest every day.

I will never lose hope for Abby and Libby that the last face I believe they saw will one day be plastered with the headline, 'ARRESTED! and that they will get their day of justice.

JMO

So we have at least two early sources stating LE has DNA, but we don't know who it belongs to. We do know they have a "key" piece of evidence linked to the killer. And we know Carroll County requested at least one autopsy report from another recent offender, which LE stated they've also shared information like this on other suspects. Who knows how many autopsy reports, DNA samples, and other such evidence they've collected over two years.

The bad news, IMO, is that I don't think they have a specific individual(s) who they're trying to build a case against. Although I know many here won't agree. I am, however, hopeful there was something found specific about BG's person that can be matched to him via an arrest, or an autopsy, if not through DNA.

So the good news, IMO, is that between the evidence they appear to have, and a statement I've heard LE make (paraphrasing - I don't recall where I read it, so I don't have a link) saying they have enough evidence to convict once the perp is identified.

 

[Intrigued25]

In this Fox 59 clip, Alexis McAdams talks about hearing from Carter about, 'A key piece of evidence at the crime scene that was linked to the killer'.

Perhaps the evidence was planted which has sent LE in the wrong direction, delaying the investigation

 

[Falcon500]

Perhaps the evidence was planted which has sent LE in the wrong direction, delaying the investigation

Planted by who and for what reason?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Perhaps the evidence was planted which has sent LE in the wrong direction, delaying the investigation

Perps aren't usually that clever, and they are generally too busying focusing on their perpetration. JMO

 

[susiQ]

Planted by who and for what reason?

Planted by the killer, perhaps to frame someone else for the killing, or just lead the investigation in the wrong direction? JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I’m not sure...that could be what it is, but doesn’t it seem a bit bright to be something used in hunting? I thought most hunting gear blends in with the natural surroundings.

I just had another random thought while thinking about the super creepy 1986 movie "Blue Velvet". In the movie, the Perp, played by Dennis Hopper inhaled nitrous oxide to enhance his sexual perpetration. As random a thought as this is, could the Perp in this case have been huffing something to create a similar effect?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[susiQ]

I just had another random thought while thinking about the super creepy 1986 movie "Blue Velvet". In the movie, the Perp, played by Dennis Hopper inhaled nitrous oxide to enhance his sexual perpetration. As random a thought as this is, could the Perp in this case have been huffing something to create a similar effect?

Amateur opinion and speculation

Well, I think the movie may have exaggerated the effects of Nitrous Oxide, it is after all also called laughing gas

"Physical health risks

It is very dangerous to inhale nitrous oxide directly from the canister, and doing it in an enclosed space is also very dangerous.

Never place a plastic bag over your head.

If you take too much nitrous oxide you risk falling unconscious and/or suffocating from the lack of oxygen. People have died this way.

Other risks include:

Dizziness, which might make you act carelessly or dangerously.
Heavy regular use of nitrous oxide can lead to a deficiency of vitamin B12 and to a form of anaemia. Severe B12 deficiency can lead to serious nerve damage, causing tingling and numbness in the fingers and toes. This can be very painful and make walking difficult.
Regular use can stop you forming white blood cells properly.
It can be hard to judge the amount to use safely. If you have too much you can end up fainting, having an accident or worse."

Nitrous oxide | FRANK

ETA: However, amyl nitrite is another possibility. Not sure he's wearing a respirator, but anything is possible since we have no clear pic of what it is.

 

[Jim_M]

Planted by the killer, perhaps to frame someone else for the killing, or just lead the investigation in the wrong direction? JMO

Perhaps that is one more clue into the planning this killer facilitated. This all felt planned by this sicko from the beginning. This really never felt like a random event. There was planning involved here. All IMO and would love to see their efforts produce justice for these youngsters. Gone way too soon.

 

[Yuletide]

In my humble opinion, I think that the killer was walking at the park that day and spotted Libby and Abby walking alone. It was a week day, so probably not as many people at the park as on a weekend. He followed them to see if he could isolate them. When they took to the bridge, he instigated his plan. The girls may have stepped to the side to let him pass when they felt he was following them. He may have passed them on the bridge and then stopped and ordered them "down the hill". Or, he may have grabbed one of the girls on the bridge in hopes the other would not run. I'm not convinced in any way that he planned to kill Libby and Abby on that day. I do believe he planned to kill someone on that day.