Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Cryptic]

The crime seems like hide and seek or capture the flag mixed with murderous shoplifting. Agility+timing+ruthlessness.
Maybe he was set to really scare them or humiliate them and they figured out who he was. He then realized he had actually already committed a big crime and killed them.

A definite possibility. As a side note, your possible scenario was a horrific reality in the following case:

- The perpetrators were bored and idle young surfer type dudes who were non violent and selling marijuana in the "joint to a pound" range to friends, family and aquantiances. They get into a dispute with a customer over a $900 or so drug debt.

- The leader makes a very impulsive decision to kidnap the younger brother. The vague goal is to use him as leverage to collect the $900 from big brother. Though the victim is technically a hostage, he is taken to a series of parties and given marijuana, food, introduced to girls etc.

- One thing leads to another and out of fears of being charged with kidnapping, the gang leader orders the 15 year old hostage executed. One of the previously non violent surfer dude underlings carries out the order.

Murder of Nicholas Markowitz - Wikipedia

This same basis scenario of non threatening perpetrator(s), a "snowballing crime", a complex motive and with a vague or impulsive initiating circumstancel could also serve as the motivation for these murders as well.

 

[MingyMoo]

He probably didn't need to "alibi" that since even with a lot of people out there looking it wasn't like the whole town showed up. Tired, had to be somewhere early the next morning, kept the computer and TV off all night and didn't hear about it in time (not everyone has social media accounts), previous commitments, he didn't know the families so had no vested interest, a loner who didn't have anyone to make the inquiry...

Unless he was close to the family he probably never even had to answer that question. Even with a sizable turnout not everyone participates in a search. There are around 3,000 people in Delphi. If 10% of the pop turned out to search, and that would statistically be a good percentage, it would still mean that 2500 did not. The largest search party for Savannah Spurlock still only had around 200 people, and between Lancaster and Ruchmind alone there are more than 36,000 people. In my experience as someone whose spouse works with SAR, it's more common to ask why someone DID show up to search than why they did not.

What a great observation, I come from a sprawling village/town of 3k people getting 10% 300 of them to turn out at such short notice would be almost impossible. I really don't understand why everyone thinks a 3 k population is so small and know each other. Its just not the case.

Mingy

 

[SilentRogue]

What a great observation, I come from a sprawling village/town of 3k people getting 10% 300 of them to turn out at such short notice would be almost impossible. I really don't understand why everyone thinks a 3 k population is so small and know each other. Its just not the case.

Mingy

I'm from a 7k population town in Oregon's largest county (by land mass, not population) and I can confirm that it's very rare to see anyone who isn't a friend, a relative of a friend, or otherwise known from the course of daily living and working in a small town.

 

[Nerissa]

I am still thinking the perp could be 'friends' on social media with one or both: doesn't mean they even knew each other much less talked, in person or in cyberspace....BUT: this person might be able to know their schedules, where they are, etc.

So: nothing hinky necessarily for LE to pursue. And even if something stood out: perp had an 'alibi'

JMO

 

[CelticIre]

IMO the person who committed this crime has to have been arrested before. you don't just go from being a law abiding citizen to murdering two little girls. I believe this to have been a random attack. A person who has never been in trouble before would not commit this heinous of a crime . The person who did this has had run ins with the law before

Not necessarily. Ted Bundy was murdering multiple women in the Pacific Northwest for years, completely undetected. He had no run-ins with law enforcement -- unless you count being given a citation for running down and apprehending a mugger-- until he was arrested in Utah for the attempted kidnapping of Carol DaRonch.

So it's entirely possible that this offender could have had absolutely no criminal history or problems with law enforcement, and still committed heinous crimes without anyone knowing about it.

 

[mtnlites]

What a great observation, I come from a sprawling village/town of 3k people getting 10% 300 of them to turn out at such short notice would be almost impossible. I really don't understand why everyone thinks a 3 k population is so small and know each other. Its just not the case.

Mingy

My town's pop is 3,000 and though I have lived around here for almost 40 years, I can no longer say that I know everyone or even most. People commute to other counties for work, while some work from home. Church and school provide the most opportunities for socialization, but if you don't attend either then your options are limited. People now drive to other counties to shop-or they do it online. No more standing in line together and socializing at the water company since bills can be paid online. Brain drain has meant that many of our young ones are leaving for college and then never return. 25-30 years ago I could say that everyone knew everyone else, at least by sight. The world felt much smaller then, though. Your friends were your neighbors or other community members; now our friends are scattered all over the world and we've never physically met some of them. Welcome to globalization. It makes me a little sad.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Not necessarily. Ted Bundy was murdering multiple women in the Pacific Northwest for years, completely undetected. He had no run-ins with law enforcement -- unless you count being given a citation for running down and apprehending a mugger-- until he was arrested in Utah for the attempted kidnapping of Carol DaRonch.

So it's entirely possible that this offender could have had absolutely no criminal history or problems with law enforcement, and still committed heinous crimes without anyone knowing about it.

Exactly. Just because someone doesn’t have a record doesn’t mean they haven’t committed crimes—it just means they haven’t been caught.

MOO Much like Ted Bundy, BG is probably someone no one would expect to commit such a horrible act, and that has played a large role in what has allowed him to remain free for 2 years.

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't see any "comments" under the GH video that was linked. Regardless, discussion of comments on a video is not allowed. Posts discussing it have been removed.

If members want to listen to the video and provide a specific timestamp on the video itself where the information can be heard, that's fine but we can't expect all members and WS staff to listen through an entire video to possibly hear something or not hear it.

 

[somequestions]

This case may end up being discussed for a very long time or it may be solved tomorrow. Law enforcement has not said for sure that there is DNA evidence, but let's assume there is. Even with DNA you still need a suspect to connect it to, or you need to have a family member of the killer opt-in to allow their familial DNA to be used to narrow down a suspect(if it is even in a system).

People may not agree with me, but what Liberty German did that day was not based on fact. She had a feeling that something was not right, and she ended up being correct. She could not have known that at the moment she took the video. The bridge guy suspect may have walked right past them and did nothing.

So when will this case be solved? It is hard to answer since we do not know all the information. It might be a while.

 

[gregjrichards]

This case may end up being discussed for a very long time or it may be solved tomorrow. Law enforcement has not said for sure that there is DNA evidence, but let's assume there is. Even with DNA you still need a suspect to connect it to, or you need to have a family member of the killer opt-in to allow their familial DNA to be used to narrow down a suspect(if it is even in a system).

People may not agree with me, but what Liberty German did that day was not based on fact. She had a feeling that something was not right, and she ended up being correct. She could not have known that at the moment she took the video. The bridge guy suspect may have walked right past them and did nothing.

So when will this case be solved? It is hard to answer since we do not know all the information. It might be a while.

I still think LE will get him but unfortunately it might take years. I feel like an an arrest is going to come out of the blue one day and leave us all totally shocked and stunned. I’m sure he made a mistake and forensics will catch him out and I’m going to follow this case indefinitely and I will never give up hope.

 

[scruffydog]

MOO but goes to church as a social thing.

I don’t think religion will prove to ba a factor in this crime.

 

[IQuestion]

This case may end up being discussed for a very long time or it may be solved tomorrow. Law enforcement has not said for sure that there is DNA evidence, but let's assume there is. Even with DNA you still need a suspect to connect it to, or you need to have a family member of the killer opt-in to allow their familial DNA to be used to narrow down a suspect(if it is even in a system).

People may not agree with me, but what Liberty German did that day was not based on fact. She had a feeling that something was not right, and she ended up being correct. She could not have known that at the moment she took the video. The bridge guy suspect may have walked right past them and did nothing.

So when will this case be solved? It is hard to answer since we do not know all the information. It might be a while.

Read my following post...I kind of messed up the first attempt. Hopefully my post is within guidelines. I am just referring to recent information in which young women have felt "instantly" uncomfortable encountering a man.

 

[Cutiekitty]

BBM

Snap Maps wasn't launched until June 2017.
Introducing Snap Map!

True, but if SC is involved and BG had been added (or otherwise had access to LG’s story) he would’ve known exactly where the girls were the instant the AW pic was posted if he was familiar with the area.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Do you believe LE know who it is and are just wanting to crack his alibi?

In the case of my POI #1 I believe LE has loads of time to build a case as he is incarcerated and likely to be so for a long time to come.

In the case of my POI #2 I believe they have him under close watch and are waiting out DNA entanglements (and yes, possibly waiting out the unraveling of an alibi, someone covering for him, knowingly or not).

In the case of my POI #3 (yes 3, I hate to admit... I am still scrutinizing each of these ... and wishing I had more info!!!) I believe the problem is that the presence of his DNA would be not unexpected (someone they oft come into contact with) so LE needs the alibi proven false in order to move beyond (someone covering for him, though not sure if they mean to be or if he has them genuinely fooled).

Feel free to poke holes at my line(s) of thinking. Our supposing and surmising here has gone on for so long and become so complicated it is hard to keep things straight.

I just want justice for these girls and want BG to pay for what he has done.

May today be the day.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't see any "comments" under the GH video that was linked. Regardless, discussion of comments on a video is not allowed. Posts discussing it have been removed.

If members want to listen to the video and provide a specific timestamp on the video itself where the information can be heard, that's fine but we can't expect all members and WS staff to listen through an entire video to possibly hear something or not hear it.

The timestamp it was discussed was very early in the video at 2.25 and the rest of the video is the very first PC with comments every now and then by GH.
I thought GH videos were authorized sources but I won't link it again. I thought I was being helpful as posters were asking questions about it.

(Sorry SB, will put the timestamp with the link next time. )

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

What a great observation, I come from a sprawling village/town of 3k people getting 10% 300 of them to turn out at such short notice would be almost impossible. I really don't understand why everyone thinks a 3 k population is so small and know each other. Its just not the case.

Mingy

I completely agree. Heck I live in a town of 800 and don’t know the people 4 houses down in any direction

 

[tresir2012]

I completely agree. Heck I live in a town of 800 and don’t know the people 4 houses down in any direction

I guess it depends where one lives. I live in a village with around 300 houses and farms quite spread out but know the majority of them I would think. Meet at village functions, pub, shop, walking dog etc.

Everyone would pretty much turn out here if that happened. We are also a coastal community with volunteer coastguards, first responders, lifeboat etc and big influx of tourists in the summer.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

In the case of my POI #3 (yes 3, I hate to admit... I am still scrutinizing each of these ... and wishing I had more info!!!) I believe the problem is that the presence of his DNA would be not unexpected (someone they oft come into contact with) so LE needs the alibi proven false in order to move beyond (someone covering for him, though not sure if they mean to be or if he has them genuinely fooled). .

If they have an idea of the perp and have dna, and just waiting to disprove his alibi. You can bet they would be rattling his cage daily! Constant interviews. Constant contact with his neighbors etc, not posting a sketch.

If they have a guy they know did it why continue posting the sketch and asking for people to call n tips.

Unfortunately I feel they do not have a person zero’d in on. I am deeply concerned they don’t have much more then the vid and voice they are sharing. I see no logical reasoning to continue to be vague about dna. If the perp raped the girls then he knows he left a ‘sample’. If the last presser was meant to rattle the perp into acting odd or nervous and hopefully someone picks up on that, sharing that there is dna just shakes him up more. How better make him nervous then to say “we have your dna, something more specific then a finger print”! Could there be no dna and the inconclusive answer is just making the perp think there could be and thus shake him?

My biggest concern now is this man can compartmentalize his emotions. We haven’t heard reports of someone who got very nervous following the presser. We know when people can separate their emotions like this and not be shaken by the presser he very well may be a serial in the making. Some may say there isn’t more killings and thus he isn’t a serial. Just remember everything has a starting point. I hope I am wrong!! I hope they know him and arrest him today! I fear he will do this again

 

[Yellow Rose]

Praying as always that today is the day!

 

[rainwaterstill]

I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that there are a couple of things that point to BG being very young. Perhaps even high school age:

1. His DNA and fingerprints don’t appear to be in an LE database
2. Some angles of stills from the videoclip look very young indeed
3. It fits with a SM arranged meeting: - false identity perhaps, savvy technologically
4. Hiding very much in plain sight, because everyone is focused on an older age group
5. Possibly a first offence.

What do others think?

I don't believe it was his first offense. Statistically, people arrested for a crime have committed 12 prior offenses where they didn't get caught.