Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

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What if the witness who reported seeing BG on Freedom Bridge WAS BG? Maybe he ditched or put in backpack his outerwear, hat, scarf, hoodie but described what he was previously wearing in order to be a witness and not a suspect?
So he lied about seeing someone else at FB. Well LE will know who he is at least. If no one else can verify it that would be what LE will be checking. They will also know if he is lying because they know the true TOD and who was on the trails at that time.
 
I was thinking that. Maybe they interviewed him as a witness and he didn't look anything like the video or the other sketch so he was not a POI.

Could he have even given a fake ID - so many college kids have one for bars - and when they went to find him and reinterview they realized he is not who he said he was?

I can't think why he would be back on the bridge, but again that 12 -5 timeline....that leaves some time afterwards...maybe he did hike around some more to be seen on purpose? Far fetched, but just thinking out loud!

Maybe he was supposed to be at the park. He had to be there. For what reason? We're still working on that, all of us, collectively.

Would a violent perpetrator want to 'stick around', but also want any possible witnesses to see him, as far away from the area of the Crime Scene? And if so, what is so utterly important, in making sure that he is seen? Hmmmm, perhaps he did realize he was captured on that video. And thinking it was a done deal (evidence), that he was 'seen' (well, captured to the cloud), was he able to think that quickly to cover up his tracks? All my supposition wrapped into a questionable opinion.
 
Maybe I should wait until my second cup of coffee to post lol. I am having such a hard time understanding this Freedom Bridge sighting of BG and how it's still relevant. The OBG had facial hair and a hat in the sketch and the YBG has neither and looks 30 yrs younger. Are the two sketches both from this 3:02 Freedom Bridge sighting and supposed to be of the same person?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that there were two men on the trail in blue jackets and two sketches made of two different people. Then one of these men was sighted from afar at Freedom Bridge and LE went with the older sketch that matched the voice and video best.

Why would he be at another bridge after the murders (because we think they happened right after the 2:30 "last sighting", right?) instead of sneaking off to his car? Is the CPS building near the Freedom Bridge?

I hope this makes sense!

You have to walk past Freedom Bridge to get to the CPS building parking area. Freedom Bridge is about a mile from the crime scene. TL4S has posted a good map with times and distances on it in post 1277 (page 64) in this thread.

Also, there was no OBG sketch issued till 5 months after the murder. All we had was a still from a video that could be any Indiana white male. The witnesses who saw BG may have not had similar recollections about his features.

( @TL4S please post your map in the media, maps and timelines thread in post 1 so we can easily access it when we go to the new (last?) thread. TIA )
 
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What could have made the phone stop recording? I'm guessing Libby didn't turn it off, but does the audio recorder or video function time out? Do the apps have a time limit? Would dropping the phone make it stop?

Battery died or not enough memory? When I used to have a phone those were 2 things that would put a damper on my video fun.
 
You have to walk past Freedom Bridge to get to the CPS building parking area. Freedom Bridge is about a mile from the crime scene. TL4S has posted a good map with times and distances on it in post 1277 (page 64) in this thread.

Also, there was no OBG sketch issued till 5 months after the murder. All we had was a still from a video that could be any Indiana white male. The witnesses who saw BG may have not had similar recollections about his features.

( @TL4S please post your map in the media, maps and timelines thread in post 1 so we can easily access it when we go to the new (last?) thread. TIA )
I'm not sure that map should be there. It's more my own theory than something people should refer to. :)
 
Right I am going out on a limb here. I quite simply think (LE) they have their suspect in their sights . LE have time to dot the I's cross the T's and be thorough for one reason and another .

PC April 22 nd, Simply asking the general public or those closest to any Possible Suspect .To wake up and smell the coffee tell the truth and stop being in self denial. (Para phrased) Would help Today be the day and where Abby & Libby's families could move on with the rest of their lives. As for closure I really don't think is any real closure in tragic events such as these for anyone. I basically think LE know as does someone else close to the perpetrator.

Well those are my Mingmoo thoughts for today.

MM
 
I'm not sure that map should be there. It's more my own theory than something people should refer to. :)

That's what the map thread is for so we can access stuff easily. You can put a disclaimer on it. Eg. "The measurements are accurate based on Google and the times are estimates based on the foreigners timeline" no responsibility for errors/use at your own risk blah blah

I can be your agent and promoter. ;-)
 
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Right I am going out on a limb here. I quite simply think (LE) they have their suspect in their sights . LE have time to dot the I's cross the T's and be thorough for one reason and another .

PC April 22 nd, Simply asking the general public or those closest to any Possible Suspect .To wake up and smell the coffee tell the truth and stop being in self denial. (Para phrased) Would help Today be the day and where Abby & Libby's families could move on with the rest of their lives. As for closure I really don't think is any real closure in tragic events such as these for anyone. I basically think LE know as does someone else close to the perpetrator.

Well those are my Mingmoo thoughts for today.

MM

I actually think they have a few people they are watching for their reactions. I hope we are right.
 
You have to walk past Freedom Bridge to get to the CPS building parking area. Freedom Bridge is about a mile from the crime scene. TL4S has posted a good map with times and distances on it in post 1277 (page 64) in this thread.

Also, there was no OBG sketch issued till 5 months after the murder. All we had was a still from a video that could be any Indiana white male. The witnesses who saw BG may have not had similar recollections about his features.

( @TL4S please post your map in the media, maps and timelines thread in post 1 so we can easily access it when we go to the new (last?) thread. TIA )
From everything I have looked at the only chance of catching BG on surveillance cam would be the storage facility on W300N which is between the FB and the CS. This facility has several cameras facing W300N. BG would have had to walk down or drive down the road to have been capture on those cameras. I think he would have taken that little trail that goes from the trails to the FB and would have avoided the road!
upload_2019-8-5_9-34-29.png
 
That's what the map thread is for so we can access stuff easily. You can put a disclaimer on it. Eg. "The measurements are accurate based on Google and the times are estimates based on the foreigners timeline" no responsibility for errors/use at your own risk blah blah

I can be your agent and promoter. ;-)
What I was thinking about doing is making several maps that show the measurements of possible routes for both BG and the girls. I won't put times, since we really don't have anything concrete. Based on the article I posted yesterday, the average paced, fairly even terrain hike is 30 min per mile, so I guess we'll have to all put on our tinfoil bonnets (remember the Mollie Tibbetts thread? :) ). Hmm...let me put some thought...

Note: My maps will be basic. I'm only a simple clown, with no technical skills or expensive computer software to dazzle the viewers.
 
I actually think they have a few people they are watching for their reactions. I hope we are right.

Why just wait for a reaction and not get a DNA sample? I think they have gotten samples from some people so they must have DNA that is usable?

If that is not the case (no good DNA), wouldn't the reaction already have occurred after the PC?

What are the chances this BG got himself out of the country early on and has totally changed his identity? I can't imagine he is just hanging around town.
 
What could have made the phone stop recording? I'm guessing Libby didn't turn it off, but does the audio recorder or video function time out? Do the apps have a time limit? Would dropping the phone make it stop?
They (Libby & Abby) were gone such a short period of time. I can't remember when the calls started going straight to voicemail but from the time they were dropped off at approx 1:30-:1:40 until the say 3:15-3:30 is really a short period of time.

I know when I use my phone video function it really eats up the battery. Could be it was recording until it died out. And we don't know if her phone was fully charged or low on battery life at the time. I think I have the same iPhone version Libby had, iPhone 6.
 
Why just wait for a reaction and not get a DNA sample? I think they have gotten samples from some people so they must have DNA that is usable?

If that is not the case (no good DNA), wouldn't the reaction already have occurred after the PC?

What are the chances this BG got himself out of the country early on and has totally changed his identity? I can't imagine he is just hanging around town.
I think they are watching for reactions from the alibis and not just the possible perps. LE seem to believe he is still around, don't know why he hasn't skipped town, maybe he has or is in jail, on probation and easy to watch. Maybe there has been a reaction already. I don't have too much faith about DNA or they would have him by now IMO.
 
Why just wait for a reaction and not get a DNA sample? I think they have gotten samples from some people so they must have DNA that is usable?

If that is not the case (no good DNA), wouldn't the reaction already have occurred after the PC?

What are the chances this BG got himself out of the country early on and has totally changed his identity? I can't imagine he is just hanging around town.

Because they can't prove it without a reasonable doubt is my thinking. DNA is complicated especially touch DNA that can be passed from one to another quite innocently.

MM
 
They (Libby & Abby) were gone such a short period of time. I can't remember when the calls started going straight to voicemail but from the time they were dropped off at approx 1:30-:1:40 until the say 3:15-3:30 is really a short period of time.

I know when I use my phone video function it really eats up the battery. Could be it was recording until it died out. And we don't know if her phone was fully charged or low on battery life at the time. I think I have the same iPhone version Libby had, iPhone 6.
Somehow I have it in my head that DG, BP, or MP said the phone didn't go straight to voicemail until later. That's why I thought it hadn't just died during video. I don't know the source, though.
 
What I was thinking about doing is making several maps that show the measurements of possible routes for both BG and the girls. I won't put times, since we really don't have anything concrete. Based on the article I posted yesterday, the average paced, fairly even terrain hike is 30 min per mile, so I guess we'll have to all put on our tinfoil bonnets (remember the Mollie Tibbetts thread? :) ). Hmm...let me put some thought...

Note: My maps will be basic. I'm only a simple clown, with no technical skills or expensive computer software to dazzle the viewers.
I really liked the map you did - simple, effective and clown/idiot proof.
 
Somehow I have it in my head that DG, BP, or MP said the phone didn't go straight to voicemail until later. That's why I thought it hadn't just died during video. I don't know the source, though.
The foreigners timeline.

ETA relevant bit

2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
 
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As tips pour in, some in Delphi turn to faith

There are several articles about the witness BH and this is an interview with him that was done early on in the case. It does seem like he was working very close to where it happened and it has affected him deeply judging by the video at this link.
Not sure if this has been talked about before but is BH the FSG?
 
The foreigners timeline.
I am also of this belief that DG tried calling with no response. This tends to suggest the phone was ringing, Then when he tried later it went straight to voice mail, which tends to suggest

  • It was turned off
  • It ran out of battery
  • Or it was not within signal range
Which ever I am sure I have heard or read DG Tried calling without success. If I am wrong so be it.

MM
 
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