Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

BBM.
You ARE an English lit scholar!

I can't help myself!

Here it is:
Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

Don't know if you're in my situation, but I have long ago used up my freebie views for The Globe and Mail, so I have to read these in an incognito tab. LOL

 

[scrappinkat]

It's a shame because someone might have some really innovative and good ideas, but won't want to share them because who needs the grief?

There’s also topics that are not allowed to be discussed as per admin and site rules. I imagine that keeps some opposite type theories from being posted, they will at least be deleted or at most get the entire thread shut down.

 

[SiciC]

Many people who do terrible things are thought to be nice to those who know them, and I think the same goes for Kam and to a certain extent Bryer. Other young men rejected Bryer for his words and beliefs re - his interest in violence, Hitler, etc...but Kam didn't. Maybe I am being judgmental, but that tells me that there was something off about him too. My opinion of course.

IMO, if Kam and Bryer were friends since childhood and by all accounts were very close, spent a lot of time together, camped in the woods for days while playing war games, I think its safe to assume they had similar interests and ideologies, and probably similar personalities. We certainly don't know much about Kam, not as much as we've learned about Bryer. Even Kam's social media is more barren than Bryer's, and Bryer's account don't even have much activity.

 

[CanadianMade]

I know it's not the theme of your post, but I'm not sure that loving nature and being a survivalist are the same thing. Not being a survivalist, I have no idea what motives them, but I think survivalist go to the woods because urban society is in peril, they don't believe in government, etc, not to commune with nature...

I don't know that I would lump all 'survivalists' into that catagory. Some do practice it just for the sake of interest. Me being one of them. I enjoy camping, I enjoy the outdoors and nature more so than the indoors. I practice all kinds of things when out camping just for the sake of learning it. Not because I hate the government, etc.

 

[ldlager]

RCMP and Notifying Next of Kin - Canada.ca

FWIW here is a copy of an RCMP news release from 2008 regarding their policy for notification of next of kin.

 

[10ofRods]

An airsoft BB gun would not cause damage, even if I was to put the end of the plastic barrel against your arm and pull the trigger it would not enter under the skin. A pellet gun, perhaps could cause damage or penetrate the skin but that’s very different than an airsoft BB gun.

So Canada strictly limits the kinds of airsofts sold.

In the US, though, airsoft sells BB guns (still not typically going to do much damage). I guess my question is that since it appears it's Bryer's dad who bought the "airsoft" gun, do we even know that it was an actual airsoft gun? The dad seems to wander around and come and go, isn't it possible he simply bought one in the US? He doesn't seem like the type of person who would necessarily follow all the rules about declaring things upon entry into Canada.

I ask in part because the term "airsoft" is often used for any type of air gun. In fact, people who want to minimize what they're carrying will call something an "airsoft" when in fact it's an air gun.

It's impossible to tell from that one picture of Bryer holding the gun whether it is actual Airsoft brand or not (and somehow, I thought the Canadian versions had to have an orange paint on the muzzle, but I really don't know).

If in fact, Bryer's dad equipped him with a US bought air gun that shoots pellets...that could be lethal if deployed properly.

 

[otto]

Robbery was definitely a factor, but we don't know it was motive. It's one theory. I know there has been a lot of discussion over the last few weeks about why they took the RAV4, why they stopped at the van, etc. But we don't know anything yet. There are a lot of scenario's that could have happened and until we hear more from RCMP, we can only come up with theories. Maybe they killed LD, then decided to take the RAV4, not killed him for the RAV4. I don't think it's crystal clear at all. JMO

Motive is the plausible reason the suspects murdered three people. The best way to understand this is to look at what happened at the time of the murders:

• identification/wallets stolen
• vehicle stolen

Murder during robbery is so common it's clearly defined in law. I'm very confused why so many want to look around the obvious and proclaim that murders, where property was stolen, are a mystery.

"Culpable homicide is murder where a person causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit ... an offence mentioned in section 343 (robbery), whether or not the person means to cause death to any human being and whether or not he knows that death is likely to be caused to any human being, if

(a) he means to cause bodily harm for the purpose of

(i) facilitating the commission of the offence, or
(ii) facilitating his flight after committing or attempting to commit the offence,"​

Criminal Code

 

[Moriarty]

She also mentioned them camping there for a few days.

That would likely be the third location that RCMP searched near Dease Lake, in addition to the burned truck and the roadside turnout where LD was discovered.

And if it IS true that they had been camping there for a few days, that would imply they headed from the crime scene near Liard Hotsprings back to Dease Lake almost directly. Then something triggered them to suddenly burn their camper, steal a vehicle and flee eastwards in a hurry, killing LD in the process.

 

[10ofRods]

It’s a short video, one without much context.

I think we should be careful about drawing any conclusions at all.

You can pretty much see what you want to see there.

No one is drawing conclusions. However, I've been asked to analyze surveillance videos frame by frame, and they can be very short but still quite useful. Analysis of body language and facial expression should in fact be done frame by frame first, then in larger bits, otherwise a lot of microexpressions go missed.

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

And this answer quoted above is why I truly hope there is some info/explanation as to what evidence there is to convince the public that B/K are in fact responsible for the murders of Lucas & Chynna. Otherwise there will always be questions and wonder. JMO

I think that for some people it does not matter what information the RCMP eventually reports as - regardless of what they state - some number of people will decide the facts are indicative of incompetence or possibly intentional cover-up. This is already the case with what has happened/been reported to date.

I think, that questions, wonder, and opposing opinions are going to be par for the course especially as the suspects are dead (and cannot give an account of themselves via their lawyers). I hope we get detailed facts in the future but expect many things will remain the unknown.

However, I do not think it is productive for civic discourse to claim public law enforcement is incompetent without providing detailed evidence to support such claims. And until a report is published I think it is premature to cite presumed lack of follow up on some presumed tip as evidence of lack of followup/incompetence on the part of law enforcement. So scroll and roll.

 

[NJSleuth91]

That may be, but I seem to remember a comment by the Jade City Store owner that she (or her daughter?) saw the pair hitchhiking later, one on each side of the road. I can't for the life of me find that quotation now...

But if that's accurate, to me that sounds like a 'lying in wait' scenario to me. I believe they may have seen those electronic signs asking for anyone with dashcam footage from July 14/15 in the deaths of LF and CD and panicked, thinking to themselves, "Oh ****! Maybe someone saw our camper." They decided they needed a change of vehicle, ambushed poor LD, perhaps by hitching a ride and then killing him. They then drive back to their truck, load up what they want to take, and speed off to Alberta in the Rav4.

I think this is the missing piece. That sounds really likely to me. This is the first I've heard of there being signs asking people for dashcam footage. That could totally have been what caused them to panic and decide to change vehicles. This also explains why they stayed in the area for days afterwards, and at the Jade City store they seemed calm and even allegedly bought a souvenir, which wouldn't have made sense if they had to preserve their money. They thought they had gotten away with it up to that point. Then maybe those signs made them reconsider.

I think Lucas and Chynna's murders were either for thrill (either to see what it is like to kill someone, or robbery that went wrong) or some nonspecific misanthropic rage. Or a combination of the two motives. Maybe they each killed one of them and that's why they targeted a couple specifically. I think after that maybe they would have been done with murder. I don't think that they necessarily enjoyed the experience as much as they thought they would, or else I think they would have killed a lot more people on their way out, because why not, what did they have to lose at that point. But who knows, I could be wrong, we will probably never know.

Anyway I think Professor Dyck's murder was out of panic and what they saw as necessity. I doubt it was fun for them and neither was anything else they did after that point, going by the witness accounts of them seeming scared, and the way they came to an end.

All JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Probably murder, but possibly murder/suicide.

Lots of people commit murder/suicide in their cars. An elderly couple did that near me this week.

ETA, no idea where the quote went, but I was responding to @webbie

“Suspicious deaths” doesn’t mean there is a killer on the loose.

 

[Zella]

That would likely be the third location that RCMP searched near Dease Lake, in addition to the burned truck and the roadside turnout where LD was discovered.

And if it IS true that they had been camping there for a few days, that would imply they headed from the crime scene near Liard Hotsprings back to Dease Lake almost directly. Then something triggered them to suddenly burn their camper, steal a vehicle and flee eastwards in a hurry, killing LD in the process.

I bet you're right about it being the third site!

The sudden trigger that made them kill LD is why I have wondered when the burning truck was discovered on the 19th and when LD's body was found (which I think was after). Isn't the 19th the day it was confirmed that LF and CD were, in fact, homicide victims and their identities were released? Wonder if that happened earlier the day and then the 2 freaked out. I first learned of the LF and CD murders on the evening of the 19th. By then, it was being carried in American MSM.

Edited: Could also have been those dashcam requests, too, though.

 

[CanadianMade]

For those looking for the photo of items laid out from the burnt truck.


https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...thern-b-c-community-journalist-says-1.5223024

 

[10ofRods]

Motive is the plausible reason the suspects murdered three people. The best way to understand this is to look at what happened at the time of the murders:

• identification/wallets stolen
• vehicle stolen

Murder during robbery is so common it's clearly defined in law. I'm very confused why so many want to look around the obvious and proclaim that murders, where property was stolen, are a mystery.

"Culpable homicide is murder where a person causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit ... an offence mentioned in section 343 (robbery), whether or not the person means to cause death to any human being and whether or not he knows that death is likely to be caused to any human being, if

(a) he means to cause bodily harm for the purpose of

(i) facilitating the commission of the offence, or
(ii) facilitating his flight after committing or attempting to commit the offence,"​

Criminal Code

Totally agree. The only thing still puzzling me about the known chain of events are the weapons used and why the delay in torching the truck. Well, that's mainly it. Motive is well enough established, to my way of thinking, and it's what happened afterward (and why they so quickly went to killing their robbery victims) that interests me.

It should be common knowledge that if someone invades your space to rob you, you are at a much higher risk of being killed than if a person just comes inside to case your house. Most new robbers want a vacant house/car and are startled and apt to be quite violent if seen. One person (now serving life in prison in my jurisdiction) was breaking into a house when a teen came home from school unexpectedly. This previously non-violent burglar seized a knife in the kitchen and killed the teen. His reason? Not to be seen/caught.

 

[Zella]

No one is drawing conclusions. However, I've been asked to analyze surveillance videos frame by frame, and they can be very short but still quite useful. Analysis of body language and facial expression should in fact be done frame by frame first, then in larger bits, otherwise a lot of microexpressions go missed.

I didn't know that, but it makes sense.

 

[scrappinkat]

I guess my question is that since it appears it's Bryer's dad who bought the "airsoft" gun, do we even know that it was an actual airsoft gun?

For him to use the term “”airsoft” I do assume that is what he bought. Money seemed tight for him and there’s a good chance he was a little surprised at prices, plus it was requested so I assume he would have made sure to get what had been asked for. Technically airsoft is an air gun, so is a pellet gun depending on model.

 

[Rottiluvr]

Especially with the price of nicer RVs or newer trucks. Gack.

Maybe
I’m sorry if I’ve offended people with my comment. I’m just saying, if I’m going to get my teenager a vehicle for travelling/camping, I would prefer something “newer”, that is just me. To me, this truck is old(engine wise) and I would feel more comfortable with something newer and perhaps a bit more reliable in my opinion. That is all.

 

[OldCop]

I’ve wondered about that as well. Why burn the other 2 vehicles but not L&C’s van. Doesn’t make sense to me. Just sayin’...

People learn from their mistakes, even killers. I think they didn’t burn the blue van because it was a first killing and maybe an unplanned killing during a robbery. They took off in a panic when it happened and apparently hid for several days. They were probably making plans to get out of the area. They may have thought they or their camper were seen at L&D’s homicide site. If they listened to the news, they knew that LE was asking anyone who had gone by L&D’s van that night to come forward. Did they see a passing vehicle while they were at the scene? For whatever reason, they decided they needed a new vehicle. They were not rocket scientists. They apparently thought that by burning their camper they would destroy evidence. Duh, they worried about forensics but didn’t think about LE tracing back their camper’s registration to identify who was driving it.
I think they had a false sense of security when they were not named as suspects initially. When they burned the RAV4, I think they planned to steal another vehicle, probably in Gillam. They were not prepared for the harsh realities of the surrounding area and could not get back into town once the RCMP descended upon the area.

 

[Zella]

I just thought of another possible drawback to their hitching in opposite direction plan. If it is true BS couldn't drive--and I am leaning toward that since KM was always identified in the driver in every confirmed sighting--then he would be kind of stuck if someone picked him up and they drove awhile before he could kill that person to steal the vehicle. He'd just be there, probably without cell service. Since we know for a fact that KM could drive, he wouldn't have had the same handicap if someone picked him up. He could steal the car and drive back to BS.

Also, I suspect, as is true of most dyad killers, they weren't going to kill someone solo. They needed to be together to work up to that. So, finding themselves in a situation where one of them had to kill someone by themselves may not have been appealing.

I would love to know what day they were see hitching and for how long they kept it up. I suspect they quickly worked out this was't a feasible plan, and they needed to stay together.