Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[otto]

LD may have had a gun but BS and KM were found with two guns.

The suspects had guns, the victims were tourists and botanist without guns.

 

[MassGuy]

The suspects had guns, the victims were tourists and botanist without guns.

This is not a fact.

Law enforcement has not commented on this, one way or the other.

 

[Esprite]

A lot of kids spend an extra year in Grade twelve to get higher grades, more credits, etc. depending on their post-secondary goals. Many also take a gap year off before going into post-secondary.

 

[otto]

They could have started with one, and ended up with two.

That’s the speculation, and there’s nothing to exclude the possibility.

LD could have been murdered, and robbed or more than just his vehicle.

Maybe Chynna had a gun. She arrived in Canada on July 6.

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe Chynna had a gun. She arrived in Canada on July 6.

I doubt either of those two did.

They were tourists.

LD obviously could have.

 

[MistyWaters]

We know that 64 year old Len went to UBC directly after high school and that he completed all 3 degrees at UBC. He has been there throughout his life.

BC has 12 grades. Children start school in the year they turn 6 and they graduate in the year they turn 18. When he was a first year student at UBC he was required to take one year of general studies, mandatory courses like English 100. Then he went into sciences and specialized in botany. He graduated after 5 years in 1978.

"Len completed a Bachelors’ of Science degree in Marine Biology in 1978, then a Masters’ of Science in Botany in 1991 and finally completed his PhD in Botany in 2004. All of his studies were at UBC and he began working for the university as a sessional lecturer in 2003."
​

In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

Thanks, he began working for UBC 16 years ago when he was almost 50, a second professional career in his later years. However we know nothing of his life for any of the preceding years, details of where he resided and where he was employed.

Aside from his professional capacity, it seems he was also somewhat of a “free spirit” as well, similar in that way to L&C.

“Leonard Dyck, a botany lecturer at the University of British Columbia, was taking one of his characteristic solo camping trips through the wilderness when he was killed, Robert deWreede, a professor emeritus of botany at the university, told the CBC.

“He was spending a lot of time with his children [lately], sometimes going off on camping trips and so on,” deWreede said. “He often would tell me about the trips that they’d taken together. And I guess one of these trips resulted when he went off on his own camping up north.”...
https://nypost.com/2019/07/26/fathe...-by-teens-in-canada-was-on-solo-camping-trip/

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It sounds like you experienced what the legendary men built and left behind!

I've not been for years but I'll never forget the kindness of a stranger that relined my sorrel boots for me just as I realized I was going to miss the Skagway ferry.

All hail Whitehorse! lol

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Probably more jobs up here in Whitehorse than PA, every summer is a construction boom since the season is so short. Lots of new housing developments as well. There’s jobs in mines, road construction etc. What is weird is coming up mid July, most of the jobs are picked over by then. And then you’re back to the Walmart or Tim Horton jobs.

I imagine there's jobs there but Vancouver Island is also experiencing a construction boom all year round, they are dying for trades guys here! We don't have a mine (that I'm aware of) so that would be good work.

I just have a hard time believing that was their motivation I guess. That one men commented how soft their hands were, I just summed them up to be slacker computer/gamer guys as BS didn't seem to hack construction with his dad.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I was just looking at the publishing company that AS used and the cheapest base price to publish is $2,000 plus a lot of add-on fees:

http://friesenpress.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/FriesenPress_Compare_Paths.pdf

That seems to be a lot of money for a "screed".

 

[Arizona 123]

I was thinking that if I was LD I would have left all the unnecessary keys at home and only brought the house key and the car key. Maybe he did that and the set found by the burned RAV were added by KM/BS.

That's been something I was wondering, too.

I travel a lot, so I end up renting cars a lot. My keychain always gets added to the rental car keychain. Always. It's just more convenient, because I need several of my keys while traveling; padlocks for suitcases, any hotel keys (lots of small establishments, places, especially outside North America, still use metal keys), luggage keys, bike lock keys, etc. I've seen lots of people do this. I do it by adding the while ring (not each key individually) to the rental car key chain. So, I was wondering whether, if those burned keys are the RAV4 keys, there might be other keys on it not linked to him. If so, they could prove useful in the investigation. I'm glad the police eventually went and collected them.

 

[webbie]

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>

1) I don’t think morbid curiosity is pathetic but instead research suggests it stems from empathy. “But think of the empathy that can arise from witnessing death or destruction. This emotion—possibly the ground of all morals—is rare, but it frequently arises when we are genuinely curious about dreadful occurrences.” From The Moral of the Morbid | Psychology Today

2) And, to follow-up, our expectations for how we think the suspect’s parents should or should not respond may stem from the empathy we are feeling (e.g., whether we are empathizing more with the position of the suspect’s parents, the victim’s parents, or even the general public expecting some response). It seems to me that there has been some expectation (and perhaps disappointment) with the lack of information regarding the McLeod suspect/family as evinced by past discussion posts. It probably has skewed ideas about the relative roles played by the suspects. Perhaps when a final RCMP report is issued the McLeod family, with adequate advice, will make a second statement. But I can certainly understand their desire for privacy and their right to try to achieve it.

It is precisely because I have so much empathy for the McLeod’s that I don’t want to see them thrown to the wolves, raw, exposed and mortified.

I can’t imagine the trauma they are going through.
They are the parents of a ruthless killer - with cherry on top: known and hated the world over.
How do you come to terms with that?
Put yourself in their shoes for one moment.

Would you hold a press conference to satisfy the wolves and their morbid curiosity? Would it even cross your mind?
How do you make it through this nightmare?
Can't the public have the basic decency to respect these people’s intimacy and coping mechanism, if any?

AS has jumped on the bandwagon with abandon. Ya think he’s making a scrapbook? Ya think he’s going to try to be a better man or will he blame the system to his grave?

My mother lost a son, aged 20. I certainly empathize with the victim’s parents. I know not a day will go by, for the rest of their lives, that they won’t cry their Chynna and their Lucas. There is no greater cross to bear.

 

[Zella]

I was just looking at the publishing company that AS used and the cheapest base price to publish is $2,000 plus a lot of add-on fees:

http://friesenpress.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/FriesenPress_Compare_Paths.pdf

That seems to be a lot of money for a "screed".

It's a fair chunk of change, but that's very standard for American self-publishers. I doubt Canadian ones are that much different. The more basic the package is, the worse the service is, in my experience.

 

[otto]

Thanks, he began working for UBC 16 years ago when he was almost 50, a second professional career in his later years. However we know nothing of his life for any of the preceding years, details of where he resided and where he was employed.

Aside from his professional capacity, it seems he was also somewhat of a “free spirit” as well, similar in that way to L&C.

“Leonard Dyck, a botany lecturer at the University of British Columbia, was taking one of his characteristic solo camping trips through the wilderness when he was killed, Robert deWreede, a professor emeritus of botany at the university, told the CBC.

“He was spending a lot of time with his children [lately], sometimes going off on camping trips and so on,” deWreede said. “He often would tell me about the trips that they’d taken together. And I guess one of these trips resulted when he went off on his own camping up north.”...
https://nypost.com/2019/07/26/fathe...-by-teens-in-canada-was-on-solo-camping-trip/

We know quite a bit. I don't remember the ages of his children, but it's out there.

Right out of high school, he was a UBC student. He completed one year general studies and then specialized in marine biology. He graduated in the normal 4 year program. He did a second degree in, roughly 1986 or 88 and graduated in 1991. In 2004 he completed his PhD, but he was teaching in 2003, so he was at student from maybe 1999 or 2001.

Student: UBC

1973 - 1978
1987 -1991
2000 - 2004​

Sessional: UBC

2003 - 2019​

It's hard to say how long he needed to complete the masters and doctoral degrees, but he obviously had a close connection to the university throughout his life.

 

[KR72]

We're not allowed to link fundraising type sites here, are we? Are we allowed to mention them?

 

[SnooperDuper]

It's a fair chunk of change, but that's very standard for American self-publishers. I doubt Canadian ones are that much different. The more basic the package is, the worse the service is, in my experience.

He could have ranted on social media or a blog for far less, though, and probably had a wider audience. Instead he threw $2k behind putting words he wrote when he was drunk into paperback, which to me suggests he doesn't think that clearly when he's sober. And he spent that $2k when he doesn't even have housing. I just find that mind-boggling.

Perhaps he thought that if he posted what he wrote online, he'd never be paid for it, whereas if he self-published he would be sure to make back his $2k and more. It's as if he were really doing it for the money, and really thought his words would sell.

 

[FactFinder3000]

There is a semantic difference between "They're going to go out in a blaze of glory" (it's a blaze of glory by AS's perspective) and "they wanted to go out by a blaze of glory" (it's a blaze of glory by the perpetrator's perspective).

Here's another example usage:

Assuming that they are suicidal, do they embark on mass shootings because they want to die in a blaze of “glory”?
source: Shooting at El Paso – When “enough is enough” is not enough

And another one:

Carl Wilson said: "I think he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. That's why he did it the way he did. "I think he wanted the police to kill him and he used the police to commit suicide."
source: Man wanted 'blaze of glory' shooting death

And another:

“A new breed of discontented youth, often men in their early 20s, has emerged in step with social media,” Yoshikawa said during an interview last year. “In everyday life, these men are often withdrawn and have suicidal impulses. They’re either attracted by the idea of committing suicide in a blaze of glory and mayhem, or they may simply crave attention.
source: Rethinking the media's coverage of 'theatrical crime' in Japan | The Japan Times

 

[Esprite]

I posted this before. Perhaps others have as well.

In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

<modsnip: sleuthing family social media is not allowed>

 

[KR72]

Sleuthing isn't having an opinion or theory and stating it as fact, as you well know. There is no evidence Prof Dyck was a Mennonite, practising or otherwise, or that it's impossible he owned a gun now or in the past.


And if it's revealed he owned one, what then?

He was definitely a Mennonite I can tell you that by his surname alone. I live in an area with tons of Mennonites and practically every other person has the last name Dyck, Friesen, Bergen, etc...all Russian Mennonite names.

 

[Zella]

He could have ranted on social media or a blog for far less, though, and probably had a wider audience. Instead he threw $2k behind putting words he wrote when he was drunk into paperback, which to me suggests he doesn't think that clearly when he's sober. And he spent that $2k when he doesn't even have housing. I just find that mind-boggling.

Perhaps he thought that if he posted what he wrote online, he'd never be paid for it, whereas if he self-published he would be sure to make back his $2k and more. It's as if he were really doing it for the money, and really thought his words would sell.

In my experience working as a freelance editor with independent authors, those who choose self-publishing tend to come in three categories: those who are very naive about the publishing industry and have no idea how badly they are being taken, those who have legitimate reasons for avoiding traditional publishers but have the know-how to market the book themselves, and those who are content to not market it because they just wanted a few copies for family and friends.

Bryer's dad probably falls in the first category, but he is by no means alone in that. He stated in an interview that he was going to use the money to buy a home. I don't think that was a realistic estimate of what he would make on the book, but I think he probably thought sinking a couple of thousand into the venture was not a bad investment for that kind of a return. The problem, of course, is you have to know how to market it, and a self-publisher isn't going to help you with that unless you give them a lot more money. And in my experience, the help they do give for that you can find a lot cheaper and better elsewhere. LOL

MOO

 

[LoisLane]

Snipped:
“He was spending a lot of time with his children [lately], sometimes going off on camping trips and so on,” deWreede said. “He often would tell me about the trips that they’d taken together. And I guess one of these trips resulted when he went off on his own camping up north.”...
https://nypost.com/2019/07/26/fathe...-by-teens-in-canada-was-on-solo-camping-trip/

Has it been confirmed that LD was on the trip up north by himself or is it possible his family was camping up there too?