CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[CSIDreamer]

I'm going with the dispatch log as well, since that is a professionally documented time. That does not mean however, that RT had only started searching from around 2:30pm, or that she went missing at a particular time. imo.

At this point, I'm going with both times.

 

[LAhiker]

Yeah, but it seems the sheriff's department is making a deal of it. I wonder why?

In what way are they making a [big?] deal of it? I would think they would have to try to report as accurately as they can what BT was wearing when she disappeared. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

This side by side tells me that the picture with the red hat was probably made that day.

First pic being a very recent clear picture of Barbara, chosen because it represents her the best. Maybe also because of the flamingo blouse, perhaps she was wearing that blouse prior to wearing a bikini, she wears the blouse on a pic that to me seems 10 years old also, for wearing it in different pics over a 10 year time span, maybe it was her favorite and the one she was wearing that morning too. Who knows.
Second one, pic from that day.

Reason, Barbara is wearing the same earrings in both, while if you look at the pictures provided by VI, she changed earrings (and bikinis, and caps) all the time, different earrings in every picture.

You will have to watch closely since in the bikini pic you only see the light on the earring that gives away its specific form, due to the side by side you can conclude it being the same (they are not round but have a specific shape, I have a better close up of the earrings).

;An older picture of Barbara in the same bikini, possible, an older picture of Barbara wearing the same bikini and same cap, possible, an older picture of Barbara wearing the same bikini, same cap, in the desert in front of a rock formation, around the same time of day, wearing the same earrings as in her most recent picture, I think the likelyhood of that is maybe zero. IMO

Does anyone here on this board has two pictures of him/herself made years in between, wearing the exact same outfit, same jewelry, cap, posing on the same time of day in front of the same kind of background?

Very good points - in which case the Sheriff has posted misleading information on their missing persons report to the State. And I don't think anyone has posted this to NAMUS yet.

It's vitally important for the details to be correct. Of all the things she was wearing, the hat was the most colorful/visible. To me, the one in the picture looks predominately red, to the point that describing it as white...is very odd.

 

[deugirtni]

What are the rules again for interacting with a VI. I know we can ask questions. But I'm not sure we're allowed to speculate or try to correct their information to "make sense" to us. I'm searching and having a heck of a time finding it. TIA.

Bringing this over from thread #1
Hey Everyone,

dbdb11 is now a verified family member of Barbara's.

You may ask questions of dbdb11 but you may not argue or in any way harrass a verified member. If you choose not to believe this person then scroll by.

dbdb11 thank you very much for your willingness to become verified. You will help us better understand Barbara's case and that means we can discuss her case in a more fact based manner.

Take Care,
Tricia

Today at 6:25

oviedo, Jul 20, 2019 Report
#8 Like

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/posts/15284638/like
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

 

[CSIDreamer]

In what way are they making a [big?] deal of it? I would think they would have to try to report as accurately as they can what BT was wearing when she disappeared. JMO

Because there are discrepancies in what she was wearing. If she was wearing panties and a bra then who really cares. She's also been reported in a black bikini. Again, no one cares (at least I don't). RT has reported her in a bikini. I may have just blanked it out, but did the sheriff even say what color the underwear is?

 

[CSIDreamer]

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

Thank you!

 

[deugirtni]

Very good points - in which case the Sheriff has posted misleading information on their missing persons report to the State. And I don't think anyone has posted this to NAMUS yet.

It's vitally important for the details to be correct. Of all the things she was wearing, the hat was the most colorful/visible. To me, the one in the picture looks predominately red, to the point that describing it as white...is very odd.

Interestingly, and I don't know if it might just happen to be coincidence of where I have been looking today, but it seems like every link I pull up about BT, is showing the other photograph of her (with the pelican shirt), vs the one which seemed to be initially broadcast everywhere by MSM (with the hat).

 

[Teche]

Very good points - in which case the Sheriff has posted misleading information on their missing persons report to the State. And I don't think anyone has posted this to NAMUS yet.

It's vitally important for the details to be correct. Of all the things she was wearing, the hat was the most colorful/visible. To me, the one in the picture looks predominately red, to the point that describing it as white...is very odd.

I keep looking at the two pictures and it looks like two different women. The picture of the lady with the hat looks way younger. The nose is up-turned and much less wrinkles on the neck. Did Barb have recent plastic surgery? Nothing wrong with surgery. Barb’s a few yrs. older than me.

 

[LAhiker]

Because there are discrepancies in what she was wearing. If she was wearing panties and a bra then who really cares. She's also been reported in a black bikini. Again, no one cares (at least I don't). RT has reported her in a bikini. I may have just blanked it out, but did the sheriff even say what color the underwear is?

I agree that there are discrepancies in the different reports and like you I don't care whether she was wearing a swimsuit or underwear that resembled a swimsuit.

If I understand correctly, the info on the State Attorney General's site, which describes her as wearing a black bra and underwear, would have been reported to them by the Sheriff's Department and would reflect the sheriff's best and most recent guess as to her clothing, hair color, etc. Their understanding may have changed over time.

Barbara Thomas

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

What Barbara was wearing only matters if someone happens to remember seeing her that day in the described attire. So far, no one has come forward. If Barbara is still alive, I guarantee that she is no longer dressed only in a bikini/underwear. If she is deceased, identification will not depend on what she was wearing. So I’m not too concerned about the discrepancies in reporting.
JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

What Barbara was wearing only matters if someone happens to remember seeing her that day in the described attire. So far, no one has come forward. If Barbara is still alive, I guarantee that she is no longer dressed only in a bikini/underwear. If she is deceased, identification will not depend on what she was wearing. So I’m not too concerned about the discrepancies in reporting.
JMO

Thank you!!!!
Can we move on?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

What Barbara was wearing only matters if someone happens to remember seeing her that day in the described attire. So far, no one has come forward. If Barbara is still alive, I guarantee that she is no longer dressed only in a bikini/underwear. If she is deceased, identification will not depend on what she was wearing. So I’m not too concerned about the discrepancies in reporting.
JMO

Yes and no.

It certainly matters if only an article(s) of clothing is located. Is it what BT was wearing? Red? White? Black? Her size? Was she wearing green or yellow? Lingerie fabric or cotton?

It matters.

 

[CSIDreamer]

What Barbara was wearing only matters if someone happens to remember seeing her that day in the described attire. So far, no one has come forward. If Barbara is still alive, I guarantee that she is no longer dressed only in a bikini/underwear. If she is deceased, identification will not depend on what she was wearing. So I’m not too concerned about the discrepancies in reporting.
JMO

I see your point completely.

My concern about discrepancies and unnecessary details speak more to my thoughts about others.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I still am not sure whether there was an 'initial' WS person who contacted the dog-kennel *before* our VI did, but I do know that our VI did indeed contact them and report back to us here on the thread as to what he learned from them.

BBM

As it seems the quote was this:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

That would be another good question for a reporter to ask LE, though, @PommyMommy:

• Can LE confirm they've spoken with the kennel staff who were working the morning BT was last seen?

JMO.

In response to which our VI said:

kennel confirmed it. websleuths were the first to reach out

Again, BBM. Which, taken all together, means to me:

"LE did not bother to contact the kennel. When
@dbdb11 contacted the kennel, he asked the people at the kennel if LE had called them. The kennel then said, "No, the only person we have heard from, is some citizen who called up identifying themselves as belonging to Websleuths."

Hopefully he can come back to clear this up, but that's what I took away from his response, which is IMO important, because LE should have called the kennel, and it appears they did not. @dbdb11; do I have the right of it with the above breakdown?

 

[Skigh]

Perhaps when Barbara set out on the walk she was wearing more clothes,but if and when she is found it will be in her underwear.

 

[LAhiker]

BBM

As it seems the quote was this:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5



In response to which our VI said:



Again, BBM. Which, taken all together, means to me:

"LE did not bother to contact the kennel. When
@dbdb11 contacted the kennel, he asked the people at the kennel if LE had called them. The kennel then said, "No, the only person we have heard from, is some citizen who called up identifying themselves as belonging to Websleuths."

Hopefully he can come back to clear this up, but that's what I took away from his response, which is IMO important, because LE should have called the kennel, and it appears they did not. @dbdb11; do I have the right of it with the above breakdown?

Another interpretation is that @dbdb11 also thought LE should've contacted the kennel before he did, that he thinks of himself as part of Websleuths, and that he was the first to contact them. I don't know. Maybe he'll clear this up.

In LE's defense, if they had good info about the case from closer to when BT was said to disappeared, they might've regarded tracking her movements earlier in the day as a slightly lower priority. But I do think that the timing of events earlier that day as well as her demeanor at the kennel may ultimately prove to be important. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I see your point completely.

My concern about discrepancies and unnecessary details speak more to my thoughts about others.

I understand. My comment was a general one, not directed at anyone in particular, hoping we could move on.

bbm

Yes and no.

It certainly matters if only an article(s) of clothing is located. Is it what BT was wearing? Red? White? Black? Her size? Was she wearing green or yellow? Lingerie fabric or cotton?

It matters.

I understand up to a point @ChuckMaureen. But it only matters IMO if someone has followed this case in detail (like us) and finds a piece of clothing and is trying to figure out if it’s Barbara’s. Most folks would either turn it in to LE, ignore it or tidy up the desert and throw it away. WSers tend to obsess about these details that are pretty much unknowable at the moment, and I was just injecting my personal opinion about how far we really can go with this. But everyone is certainly free to chew on the hat and bikini as long as they want to.

 

[noel leon]

I like things simple.Cut and dry. 3 possible ways of death no matter what she was wearing or pictures that day-
1.death by misadventure
2.death by stranger abduction
3 premeditated murder

Last week I was 80% #3.This week 60%#3 and 40%#1

 

[artsy1]

MOO on the white hat/red cap controversy. It's possible RT didn't remember what color hat in original call.

The fact that LE referred to it as a red cap on all the Nixle posts (presumably AFTER they saw the photos from that day) leads me to believe initial report was wrong.

I don't think there's anything nefarious here - just a misstatement. (I've been out shopping with my sister all morning, but couldn't tell you what she was wearing.) Some things just don't seem to be of importance to remember at the time.

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Is it not possible that she was wearing a shirt, shorts/jeans, then became a bit hot and took those articles off while hiking ?

While we've talked a lot of this case into the ground, this is a great question that we haven't pondered. Would be great if LE knew this and had mentioned it. Frankly, I don't think they're treating this case remotely like an abduction (and never have) which leads me to believe that LE has info that tells them something else happened.

If she took them off while hiking, those clothes would have been in RT's pack (surely, they wouldn't have abandoned her clothing? If so, were they both feeling a bit overwhelmed by their hike choice?)

If she took them off while hiking, having intended to hike in clothes with more sun protection, that's another clue that she might have already been in the throes of heat exhaustion. It's also a good indicator that she intended to go directly to the RV, as who would continue to wander around in their underwear? Why not at least grab your shirt if you were going to walk near a road?

This points to heat exhaustion, to me (including the fact that she may have fainted and therefore not heard RT at all).

I think this issue of remoteness is all relative. Most urban and suburban folks could not fathom how empty some roads are. I live very near a bit of state highway that is so empty one could quite safely pull over and leave a vehicle not just unlocked but engine running while off on a multi-hour hike, and the chances of it being noticed, not to mention tampered with, are almost zero.

I would guess that my stretch of highway gets a car every few minutes during most times of the day, and maybe a few cars per hour, or less, at night. And would clearly, as a State Highway, be described as "the main route between X and Y". So comparable in at least a few ways.

Not saying their spot was this safe; in truth probably not, since my area is rather extreme. But again, it's relative. We just don't know, other than folks who are familiar with the actual stretch of road in question.

Such a good post. Here's why we haven't taken Kelbaker in the past few years: we no longer feel safe out there. Can't say why, exactly. Someone tried to run us off the road in a similar location, there were other cars going by with some regularity - but the person followed us and we felt really isolated.

My experience of being within 100 miles of Vegas on any of its approach routes is that there are way more people drinking and driving. And people use Kelbaker if they want to drink and drive, because there are virtually no patrols by LE. It's on federal land, SBCS doesn't patrol regularly, there are no cameras, there are no park rangers, there's not even a full time visitor center. Mojave Preserve has become popular (and people do day trips to it from Vegas, which mystifies me, but it's true). Kelso Depot is sort of the main destination and Kelbaker leads directly to it from the I-40 - so traffic in both directions, but more traffic heading north...to Vegas. People also drive super fast on Kelbaker.

Having seen what appear to be impaired drivers within the Mojave Preserve on several occasions, we just don't do it any more. In fact, we don't do Vegas any more (gettin' too old, I guess). Forums devoted to the Vegas/desert lifestyle, though (and my many friends and relatives who have decided to retire out that way) find it attractive.

The crime rates in the towns surrounding Mojave Preserve and Mojave Trails NM are just too high for my current liking. I would be uncomfortable leaving my car parked anywhere unattended, except a place where others were coming and going frequently (even then, I don't want to have a vacation ruined by a broken window).

What Barbara was wearing only matters if someone happens to remember seeing her that day in the described attire. So far, no one has come forward. If Barbara is still alive, I guarantee that she is no longer dressed only in a bikini/underwear. If she is deceased, identification will not depend on what she was wearing. So I’m not too concerned about the discrepancies in reporting.
JMO

Well, unless people with drones and ATV's are going to go out and look for her body. They might want some clues as to what they're looking for. SAR members frequently go back (again and again) to look, if the scene is bothering them as much as this is bothering us. That's how the dead Germans were found in Death Valley.

The bikini or bra would last longer as a form of identification than other aspects of her body. Anyone who was looking for her and found skeletal remains would almost certainly also find the metal from the bikini top and probably more of it than just that (especially this winter, when more hikers will be out there). There are missing posters of her up, now, and people really do look at them.

Not that any LE would ignore a body, with or without its clothing, but anyone coming across a body in the next year would find clothing remnants, so they'd know it wasn't an ancient skeleton (because people decide to keep/steal ancient skeletons if they think they can get away with it).