Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

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rickcross said:
So basically you are saying that you only believe its double murder based on the findings of a pathologist that was hired to refute the idea of a murder/suicide? You are way more trusting than I am. Quite frankly, if the family doesn't start screaming and hiring experts, this case would have been closed as a M/S pretty quickly. So, either TPS is incompetent and got it wrong, or TPS let themselves be influenced by an outside party with an agenda. Both scenarios are more than a little disturbing if you ask me.
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Yes, I guess I am more trusting in this case. I don't believe that Chiasson was hired specifically to refute the idea of a murder suicide. I believe he was hired to independently investigate and draw the best professional conclusions he could. As was the first pathologist- who also attended the Chiasson autopsies also, and whose superiors at some point, along with LE, agreed that Chiasson's findings indicated a M/M. I have no rational reason to question the independence of Chiasson's work, he is by all accounts a a professional. I don't think the success of his engagement was contingent on him reaching a conclusion that he was told to find, and I believe he was going to be paid for his services (and nothing else) by the party that hired/engaged him, irrespective of his findings.

There may be other evidence supporting a M/M that LE has- all we know is what information has been provided to the public, which as you point out is very limited. . I have no idea what the family "should" be doing in this case- is there a textbook for this? For all we know, perhaps they have received threats if they make public statements. Who knows? What I do know is that they evidently remain concerned for their own well being, as as such I have to take it at face value that until the case is solved they don't know if they could be the next targets. I don't equate their silence as evidence that they are engaged in a cover up or manipulation of the true nature of the deaths. But that's just my opinion.
 
ldlager said:
Yes, I guess I am more trusting in this case. I don't believe that Chiasson was hired specifically to refute the idea of a murder suicide. I believe he was hired to independently investigate and draw the best professional conclusions he could. As was the first pathologist- who also attended the Chiasson autopsies also, and whose superiors at some point, along with LE, agreed that Chiasson's findings indicated a M/M. I have no rational reason to question the independence of Chiasson's work, he is by all accounts a a professional. I don't think the success of his engagement was contingent on him reaching a conclusion that he was told to find, and I believe he was going to be paid for his services (and nothing else) by the party that hired/engaged him, irrespective of his findings.

There may be other evidence supporting a M/M that LE has- all we know is what information has been provided to the public, which as you point out is very limited. . I have no idea what the family "should" be doing in this case- is there a textbook for this? For all we know, perhaps they have received threats if they make public statements. Who knows? What I do know is that they evidently remain concerned for their own well being, as as such I have to take it at face value that until the case is solved they don't know if they could be the next targets. I don't equate their silence as evidence that they are engaged in a cover up or manipulation of the true nature of the deaths. But that's just my opinion.
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You could very well be right. But I wouldn't kid yourself, they could have hired any lawyer in Canada, but they chose a guy like Greenspan. I would bet the farm that the conversation with the kids wen like this, "We know our dad didn't kill our mother and himself, we want you to prove as much and convince TPS of the same thing. The evidence of the arms being tied wasn't not viewed by Chaisson, so he is either making these claims based on the fact that wrist skin was removed or he was going by photos. Nonetheless, TPS was still working under the M/S theory long after the original autopsy, which seems to imply that the results of the autopsy were inconclusive. If TPS had known 100% that both victims had their wrists tied, why wouldn't they have announce that it was M/M immediately?

Bottom line, do you not think it is possible That LE wanted this to be a M/S, especially after the reaction of the family and the threat of public embarrassment from Greenspoon? I think that LE were more than happy to listen to whatever Chaisson said because they knew he was going to find possible flaws in the M/S theory, and that this would allow LE the opportunity to cease putting effort in to the case by declaring it a M/M.
 
rickcross said:
You could very well be right. But I wouldn't kid yourself, they could have hired any lawyer in Canada, but they chose a guy like Greenspan. I would bet the farm that the conversation with the kids wen like this, "We know our dad didn't kill our mother and himself, we want you to prove as much and convince TPS of the same thing. The evidence of the arms being tied wasn't not viewed by Chaisson, so he is either making these claims based on the fact that wrist skin was removed or he was going by photos. Nonetheless, TPS was still working under the M/S theory long after the original autopsy, which seems to imply that the results of the autopsy were inconclusive. If TPS had known 100% that both victims had their wrists tied, why wouldn't they have announce that it was M/M immediately?

Bottom line, do you not think it is possible That LE wanted this to be a M/S, especially after the reaction of the family and the threat of public embarrassment from Greenspoon? I think that LE were more than happy to listen to whatever Chaisson said because they knew he was going to find possible flaws in the M/S theory, and that this would allow LE the opportunity to cease putting effort in to the case by declaring it a M/M.
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I am confused by the last paragraph of your post. If LE wanted this to be a M/S, why did they change their minds, and why then were they more than happy to listen to Chiasson? ? And how would a finding of M/M allow LE to cease putting effort into the case? Please clarify, thanks

For the record, it's also possible that it was a M/S even with the wrist markings, as Barry could have tied Honey's wrists, then later wound something around his own wrists to create markings to make it appear that he had been tied up also. If he was on the ball and planned it well.
What isn't possible is a M/S where something other than the ropes was what strangled them. That's impossible for Barry to stage on his own.
If the second autopsy showed this conclusively, then they were murdered. If not, the evidence that we know of seems to leave open the possibility of a M/S or a S/S.
 
ldlager said:
Insight Sandbox Test 042514

Excerpt from Donovan’s upcoming book on these murders. Lots of interesting and previously undisclosed info here, even in this short excerpt!
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!!!!!!! Awesome, thank you.

*****Spoiler alert, read the excerpt from the book before reading my comment **

Few pages in and one mystery is solved: Why were there no footprints in the snow?

The driveway was heated.
 
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dotr said:
Still creep-ed out, hair-raising art installation, art imitating life, or life/:eek:death imitating art?
imo.
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That one painting...and the way the bodies were found.(!)

One thing to note after reading the excerpt: BS used a Blackberry phone.

Mrs. Sherman drove home, while her husband lingered at the office for a few hours to answer emails on his BlackBerry.He finished around 8 p.m. and left his office to drive the 12 miles home.
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After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case
 
dotr said:
At the bottom of the spiral staircase to the lower level, a sheet metal installation of a life-sized woman leading a sheep by a rope around its neck!
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That’s the one! Not a painting, a sheet metal installation. Life-sized.

I read it and in my mind I was screaming STOP! DON’T GO DOWN THERE!
 
How odd that the home inspection for 50 Old Colony Rd. was found lying on the hallway floor leading to the pool room. That sounds significant to me. The fact that it is relevant to the house being sold, makes me wonder if an ostensible buyer knocked on the door that evening. And then there is this:

-"Just the other day Gottlieb had shown the house to two men who struck her as odd ducks."
-"Just the day before, a Toronto magazine had revealed publicity for the first time that the property was for sale."
 
casesensitive said:
How odd that the home inspection for 50 Old Colony Rd. was found lying on the hallway floor leading to the pool room. That sounds significant to me. The fact that it is relevant to the house being sold, makes me wonder if an ostensible buyer knocked on the door that evening. And then there is this:

-"Just the other day Gottlieb had shown the house to two men who struck her as odd ducks."
-"Just the day before, a Toronto magazine had revealed publicity for the first time that the property was for sale."
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Maybe that’s why Honey opened the door and possibly allowed them in.

The Shermans had an open house two weeks prior to the murders. I hope KD was able to find out the date of the home inspection. Maybe it was a pre-sale home inspection done by the Shermans.

Sarah Alvi lives with her family across the road from the Sherman home and has known the couple for four years. She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.
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Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home

I’ve been to house showings where the home inspection is available for viewing in a binder.

Honey’s office seems to have been close to the pool at one point. Close to where the home inspection papers were found:

She led me down a hall beside a glassed-in swimming pool. The house had an overstuffed 1980s look, with lots of leather, glossy stone floors and a spiral staircase. We sat across from each other in the den, close to her workstation piled high with papers.
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How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune
 
casesensitive said:
How odd that the home inspection for 50 Old Colony Rd. was found lying on the hallway floor leading to the pool room. That sounds significant to me. The fact that it is relevant to the house being sold, makes me wonder if an ostensible buyer knocked on the door that evening. And then there is this:

-"Just the other day Gottlieb had shown the house to two men who struck her as odd ducks."
-"Just the day before, a Toronto magazine had revealed publicity for the first time that the property was for sale."
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My take is the iPhone found upstairs was honeys, and she was upstairs and was accosted or attacked in or near the bathroom. Then taken downstairs to the pool room.
As I have posted before I believe Barry entered through the garage and was immediately grabbed. He was taken to the pool room directly, and may have been carrying the home inspection report, which he dropped in the hall as he was attacked. I bet they discussed the home inspection report with the architect for their new house at their meeting that afternoon, maybe to get an idea of whether recommended fixes/repairs were required, or how much they would reasonably cost to complete.
This book will definately bring some posters back to this thread!!
 
Lexiintoronto said:
!!!!!!! Awesome, thank you.

*****Spoiler alert, read the excerpt from the book before reading my comment **

Few pages in and one mystery is solved: Why were there no footprints in the snow?

The driveway was heated.
Click to expand...

And if the driveway was heated, how could LE have missed the earring if it was there for 6 weeks?
 
Can anyone read past page 10 in the book preview? Says 16 pages but mine stops abruptly at 10?
 
Lexiintoronto said:
I think the index and introduction are included in the 16 pages, it does stop at page 10.

Off topic: but I hope @JayFriend sees that there are new posts here and was notified.
: )
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I've been getting email notifications of all new posts, thank you. Just waiting to see if I get one when this thread is closed and a new one is announced. Each time I come here from the email link, I see a couple more new posts.

Kevin Donovan's book looks like it would be very interesting, shedding much more light on how things developed than I've deduced from following here. It's significant that he hasn't waited until the murders are solved and come out with the book. It makes you wonder whether this is too big and important to be solved, involving very powerful people.
 
I agree with Idlager that HS may have been accosted in the bathroom. People normally take off their winter coat before going to the bathroom, so she must have been accosted shortly after entering the house, as many believe. If the iPhone found on the floor of the powder room was Honey's, it suggests that she fled to the bathroom and was attempting to call 911. It's sad to think of how terrified she must have felt.
 
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