Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[Karinna]

And so? That still puts postie and PS in the street. Florist is irrelevant, unless there is new information. IMO.

You might need to read back to place the posts in context. I wasn't the poster that mentioned delivery of flowers etc. to FGM's address. My intial reply had to do with that.

 

[purpleandgreen]

You might need to read back to place the posts in context. I wasn't the poster that mentioned delivery of flowers etc. to FGM's address. My intial reply had to do with that.

Oh with all due respect I’ve read in context and followed posts very concisely. But thank you for your suggestion. It’s great advice for all posters IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

And so? That still puts postie and PS in the street. Florist is irrelevant, unless there is new information. IMO.

AusPost deliver flowers ... Flowers

Sorry, I would have put the link up earlier. I didn't know that such a thing would require a link.

 

[Karinna]

AusPost deliver flowers ... Flowers

Sorry, I would have put the link up earlier. I didn't know that such a thing would require a link.

Well that's nice to know. I guess i was trying to visualise how a postie on a small motorbike delivering mail would be able to deliver flowers?
But then i don't know how the postie in Kendall delivers mail?, and i know that AusPost has a delivery van for packages and probably flowers as well? IMO.
I like to provide links if i am stating something as fact is all.

 

[Warshawski]

I'm thinking the car was the postie, and William, being in a restless state and at odds with FGM and also having had his attention directed to the road by FFC, ran out or up to check the mail. PS was watching out for postie and consequently saw William. (What next, I don't know.) I wish we knew what time postie actually came by.

Hey JLZ, I've not heard of this previously . What was going on between FGM & Willam at that time ?

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, I think that JLZ had wondered if he might have read the clock hands back to front. Minute hand as the hour hand. Hour hand as the minute hand.

Ummm - maybe I need pictures Wouldn't that be an hour difference ?!?

 

[Warshawski]

This is what I have written down for Mr Chapman re clock/time

Craddock : So you were waiting on a delivery of plant cuttings, expected to be delivered to your door.

Mr Chapman: No, postman would leave a card & I would than collect from post office.

Mr Craddock : Did you drive at that time?

Mr Chapman : Yes I had a car.

Mr Craddock : So waiting for the postie , did you hear a noise?

Mr Chapman : What I thought was postie at mailbox. I got up from sunroom where I was sitting out the back of the house.

Mr Craddock: You got up hearing a noise & head towards door as noise indicated postman had come. Noise gratting sound like mailbox closed. Mailbox made of tin?

Mr Chapman : Yes, as I walked thru the kitchen to the loungeroom I looked at the clock on the wall & noted the time of 10:45 am, I am quite sure of that.

Thanks so much for your note-taking Doc, also for sharing.

Might I add that this is the stuff that does my head in! I'm sure we heard of Mr Chapman being out feeding or otherwise his chickens, birds, garden - but now apparently he was sitting in the sunroom!

Also re other suggestions of time disparity - I think he'd have a pretty fair idea of the time. .. just based on my experience with retirees; I find them most aware, ordered & punctual, and I think Chapman's 'clock glance' was possibly more in line with 'habitual occurances' - my apologies if I'm not making sense !

 

[they'll get you]

My Occam’s Razor theory, if we went back to day one, was that William drowned somehow or was missed in the bush search, especially when we were told originally that thr children were playing hide and seek.
I have moved on from that now but I always think of the wee girl in NZ who fell down a manhole very close to where she was last seen, it took days to find her, and at one point they were looking for a suspicious asian woman.

If we never get answers to what happened to William, I think I’ll always have a tiny doubt, that foul play was involved.
Occams Razor just isnt working for me now.

I’m with you on these thoughts and yes I followed the disappearance of toddler Aisling Symes.

Police decided to dig up the drain after their investigations into the supposed abduction led them nowhere and local residents reported a drainage blockage.
Toddler's body lay in drain for a week while police searched

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, maybe. Only because there are too many off things about his actions, so I am concerned about his credibility.

The wait to officially speak of his sighting I find completely absurd. When the whole town was searching high and low, and the media were full of William's disappearance. And when Spedding was being looked at with such intensity.

Even if he didn't like FGM, he still hung another person out to dry ... if he thought a blond woman took little William.

Yeah SA, that's the bit that continues to knaw away at me! It seems a no-brainer to immediately report your sighting.

However (bear with me please ) was he aware at that time of William's disappearance & all the searches going on ? I wonder was that asked of him ? Doc ?

I ask that question because I have a brother who is hugely respected in his 'rural' community, yet he reads no papers, watches no 'News' or mainstream TV .
How long would it take one in that situation to be 'tuned in' to the significance of anything seen - other than hoonish driving perhaps !

 

[Warshawski]

I'm not saying I really think so but I'd like to see it put to him. He might be able to say that his visitors arrived or left at such-and-such a time and that's how he knows he isn't an hour out, that sort of thing. Or he might say, yes, at one point I did think the time then was 9:50-ish, but I must have read it wrong because . . . etc. Or if he said, well I really think the clock said 10:45 and the two hands are quite distinct, but what you're saying is not impossible . . . to me that sounds like a credible witness.

Edit: thanks for your notes, DrSleuth. I post and then find I'm half a page behind.

Hallelujah

 

[they'll get you]

Gosh he certainly was a Jack of all trades, wonder if he was master of any.

We have a handyman In our area who is run off his feet because he’s happy to do all the small jobs a tradesman wouldn’t bother do, he does everything from painting, cleaning gutters, mowing and washing windows and he’s flat out.

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, I have read similar. That the mind builds on or slightly alters a memory on each remembering. So a person can end up with quite an altered recall of an event over time.

100% & IMO this is why very early statements are so vital - and surely should be available to refresh minds before taking to 'the stand'.

OMG, I'm flat out accounting for my movements yesterday, but then they're not important to anyone or anything.
Perhaps if I was aware of 'importance' I'd be more accountable of my movements

 

[Warshawski]

I wonder what's with the question "Did you drive at that time?" I guess from it that he no longer drives, but still I don't see the point of the question.

Hey JLZ, I'm interested to hear why you don't see any point to the question.

As you said, perhaps he no longer drives, but I think it important, given all the discussions re cars, to establish if Mr Chapman may've been on the road at the time of William's disappearance. ... for a multitude of reasons that I won't go into, but it's a question I'm totally comfortable with.

 

[Warshawski]

JLZ there are so many random questions like that that MR Craddock seems to just throw in...............for what ever reason or no reason at all!

A funny moment was when Mr Craddock asked Mr Chapman if he had an interest in "breeding" plants & the corner straight away told him " I think you mean propagating"

Was that the 'Coroner' who asked Doc ?

I appreciate a sense of humour even in the saddest of situations - IMO it's a great 'leveller' ..

 

[stormbird]

Does anyone know more about PS's reportedly loud radio?

Here's a Lia Harris tweet from the inquest at Taree in August, with thanks to @UndiscoveredTruth for posting it (thread #44, post #14):

"Craddock asked if he locked the house and turned the radio off when he went to speak to the foster grandmother. Mr <S> said he didn’t because he expected his brother in law and his wife to arrive sometime that day."
BBM

- If anyone saw PS's walk-through video at the inquest, and if the radio was left on during his re-enactment of the walk through the bush: how far away from the house could the radio noise be heard?
- Was it said whether the radio was adjusted during the phone calls: volume down, or radio turned off, etc?
- During the morning that William went missing, had PS been listening to the radio, or was it background noise? (If he could remember specific things in a public broadcast, it might have been used to fix times for the morning's events.)

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah SA, that's the bit that continues to knaw away at me! It seems a no-brainer to immediately report your sighting.

However (bear with me please ) was he aware at that time of William's disappearance & all the searches going on ? I wonder was that asked of him ? Doc ?

I ask that question because I have a brother who is hugely respected in his 'rural' community, yet he reads no papers, watches no 'News' or mainstream TV .
How long would it take one in that situation to be 'tuned in' to the significance of anything seen - other than hoonish driving perhaps !

Apparently he heard about it on TV News on the same night of the day that William disappeared.


That night, Mr Chapman turned on the television to watch the news and heard a boy last seen wearing a Spider-Man suit was missing from the local area.
'I definitely saw William': Witness says he saw boy in Spider-Man suit driven away


“Why didn’t you call the police?” Mr Craddock asked. “When you saw that thing on the news, why wasn’t your next action to pick up the phone and call the police? As you sit here today, are you in two minds?”
Mr Chapman replied: “I’m 100 per cent sure it was William in the back of the car … no doubt.”
NoCookies | The Australian
Shock Tyrrell evidence: ‘I saw William in car’
AUGUST 29, 2019

 

[drsleuth]

Does anyone know more about PS's reportedly loud radio?

Here's a Lia Harris tweet from the inquest at Taree in August, with thanks to @UndiscoveredTruth for posting it (thread #44, post #14):

"Craddock asked if he locked the house and turned the radio off when he went to speak to the foster grandmother. Mr <S> said he didn’t because he expected his brother in law and his wife to arrive sometime that day."
BBM

- If anyone saw PS's walk-through video at the inquest, and if the radio was left on during his re-enactment of the walk through the bush: how far away from the house could the radio noise be heard?
- Was it said whether the radio was adjusted during the phone calls: volume down, or radio turned off, etc?
- During the morning that William went missing, had PS been listening to the radio, or was it background noise? (If he could remember specific things in a public broadcast, it might have been used to fix times for the morning's events.)

Here is some more of what PS had to say ............

C = Craddock
PS = paul savage
H= Heather
GN= Greg Newton
RG= Regina Newton

C: on 12/9/14 your recollection when you spoke to police , you got back ( from walk) at 08:50 & on that day according to your statement made on the 25/9/14 you did see a lady at a caravan, you used to talk to her for 1/2 hr or so.

C: When you got back home you state you said your wife was cooking ( as GN & RG were coming) .

C: According to phone records from landline , made call @ 09:02 to Casino Hospital ( where his brother was )

C: Did you have a mobile phone?

PS: Can't remember, more of an ornament, didn't use them.

C: When made the call you might have been outside.

C: What do you do after your usual walk?

PS: Have tea & toast.

C: Did you hear sound of children playing? ( From statement 25/9/14 assumed it was coming from Ellendale or FGM)

C: You knew FGM had these grandchildren?

PS: I'm not sure

PS: Didn't see the children, I didn't see them at all actually

C: by by 09:00-09:45 helped clean the kitchen

C: Second call 09:59, do you remember making that call as we sit here today?

PS : No. I remember ringing, not time or date.

C: You were making arrangements to pick up your brother ( Laurie ) from Casino hospital & taken him to his home & look after him for a week or so. Planned to leave @ 11:00

PS : Yes

C: Wife H had regular plan for Fridays?

PS : Yes

C: Bingo?

PS: Yes

C: Laurieton?

PS : Yes

C: What time did bingo start?

PS : 11:00

C: How long a drive from your house to Laurieton?

PS: Approx 20 mins.

C: Is that a regular trip you make?

PS: No I don't make it a lot.

C: From your statement about 10:35 I looked at my watch H was getting ready for bingo at Laurieton.

C: Where was she getting ready?

PS: Bedroom

C: What were you doing ?

PS: Getting ready

C: From your statement at 10:35 you thought she was getting late for bingo. H had her own car, a maroon coloured ford falcon.

C: About 10:37 or 10:38 she left?

PS: I think that's about the time.

C: You were out of the house ?

PS: Yes for a moment

C: Her car was in the carport. You went out with her & waved her off. Gravel driveway?

PS: Yes

C: At that time did you notice anything else?

PS: No

C: If someone was at # 48 calling out.....

PS : I didn't heat it, I didn't hear nothing!

C: Are you certain that at that tome you heard no other noise?

PS : Yes

C: "I'll see you when you get back" - what you meant is "I'll see you when I get back"

C: H 's habit to do a bit of shopping, coffee with friends & usually home around 13:30 - 14:00

C: What did you do after H left?

PS: I went back inside , had radio on, locked up house.

C: Were you in the habit of having radio turned up quite loud? Did that annoy H?

PS: She adapted

C: You had it very loud, loud enough to hear it around the house.

C: There was a knock at the front door. That occurred as you were boiling the kettle & getting ready for tea & toast the second time.

C: Did you know the person at the door?

PS: Not at the time. Recognised her from around the area. She said to me have you seen a little boy, he's gone missing?

 

[drsleuth]

Here is some more of what PS had to say ............

C = Craddock
PS = paul savage
H= Heather
GN= Greg Newton
RG= Regina Newton

C: on 12/9/14 your recollection when you spoke to police , you got back ( from walk) at 08:50 & on that day according to your statement made on the 25/9/14 you did see a lady at a caravan, you used to talk to her for 1/2 hr or so.

C: When you got back home you state you said your wife was cooking ( as GN & RG were coming) .

C: According to phone records from landline , made call @ 09:02 to Casino Hospital ( where his brother was )

C: Did you have a mobile phone?

PS: Can't remember, more of an ornament, didn't use them.

C: When made the call you might have been outside.

C: What do you do after your usual walk?

PS: Have tea & toast.

C: Did you hear sound of children playing? ( From statement 25/9/14 assumed it was coming from Ellendale or FGM)

C: You knew FGM had these grandchildren?

PS: I'm not sure

PS: Didn't see the children, I didn't see them at all actually

C: by by 09:00-09:45 helped clean the kitchen

C: Second call 09:59, do you remember making that call as we sit here today?

PS : No. I remember ringing, not time or date.

C: You were making arrangements to pick up your brother ( Laurie ) from Casino hospital & taken him to his home & look after him for a week or so. Planned to leave @ 11:00

PS : Yes

C: Wife H had regular plan for Fridays?

PS : Yes

C: Bingo?

PS: Yes

C: Laurieton?

PS : Yes

C: What time did bingo start?

PS : 11:00

C: How long a drive from your house to Laurieton?

PS: Approx 20 mins.

C: Is that a regular trip you make?

PS: No I don't make it a lot.

C: From your statement about 10:35 I looked at my watch H was getting ready for bingo at Laurieton.

C: Where was she getting ready?

PS: Bedroom

C: What were you doing ?

PS: Getting ready

C: From your statement at 10:35 you thought she was getting late for bingo. H had her own car, a maroon coloured ford falcon.

C: About 10:37 or 10:38 she left?

PS: I think that's about the time.

C: You were out of the house ?

PS: Yes for a moment

C: Her car was in the carport. You went out with her & waved her off. Gravel driveway?

PS: Yes

C: At that time did you notice anything else?

PS: No

C: If someone was at # 48 calling out.....

PS : I didn't heat it, I didn't hear nothing!

C: Are you certain that at that tome you heard no other noise?

PS : Yes

C: "I'll see you when you get back" - what you meant is "I'll see you when I get back"

C: H 's habit to do a bit of shopping, coffee with friends & usually home around 13:30 - 14:00

C: What did you do after H left?

PS: I went back inside , had radio on, locked up house.

C: Were you in the habit of having radio turned up quite loud? Did that annoy H?

PS: She adapted

C: You had it very loud, loud enough to hear it around the house.

C: There was a knock at the front door. That occurred as you were boiling the kettle & getting ready for tea & toast the second time.

C: Did you know the person at the door?

PS: Not at the time. Recognised her from around the area. She said to me have you seen a little boy, he's gone missing?

Than the next day in PS's evidence in summing up the evidence from previous day

C: At 10:37 or 10:38 H left for bingo

PS: Approx yes

C: You were outside , you went to see her off

C: at 10:41 you made another call according to phone records, to a diagnostic x-ray place. Do you re-call that?

PS : No

C: It was just a short call.

C: At 10:50 AMS comes to the door, tells you a little boy was missing

PS : Yes

C: You than went up to see FGM?

PS: Yes

C: You said you went to back verandah. Did you hear anything a making your way.....

PS: Not that I remember

C: Anyone calling out WT name?

PS: Not that I remember

C: Evidence we heard back in March this year, MFC got back @ 10:35, he was told WT was missing & took off searching, yelling out "William" & other witnesses saw hm running & calling out in a really frantic way, so you are saying you didn't hear any of that?

PS: No

C: So you were out the back near little verandah ( at FGM house ) while you were there spoke to FFC you say & you didn't hear anybody calling out for William?

PS : No I didn't

C: When you left your house before you went to FGM's did you turn the radio off, lock house?

PS : No I went straight up, didn't lock house as BIL was arriving

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is some more of what PS had to say ............

C = Craddock
PS = paul savage
H= Heather
GN= Greg Newton
RG= Regina Newton

C: on 12/9/14 your recollection when you spoke to police , you got back ( from walk) at 08:50 & on that day according to your statement made on the 25/9/14 you did see a lady at a caravan, you used to talk to her for 1/2 hr or so.

C: When you got back home you state you said your wife was cooking ( as GN & RG were coming) .

C: According to phone records from landline , made call @ 09:02 to Casino Hospital ( where his brother was )

C: Did you have a mobile phone?

PS: Can't remember, more of an ornament, didn't use them.

C: When made the call you might have been outside.

C: What do you do after your usual walk?

PS: Have tea & toast.

C: Did you hear sound of children playing? ( From statement 25/9/14 assumed it was coming from Ellendale or FGM)

C: You knew FGM had these grandchildren?

PS: I'm not sure

PS: Didn't see the children, I didn't see them at all actually

C: by by 09:00-09:45 helped clean the kitchen

C: Second call 09:59, do you remember making that call as we sit here today?

PS : No. I remember ringing, not time or date.

C: You were making arrangements to pick up your brother ( Laurie ) from Casino hospital & taken him to his home & look after him for a week or so. Planned to leave @ 11:00

PS : Yes

C: Wife H had regular plan for Fridays?

PS : Yes

C: Bingo?

PS: Yes

C: Laurieton?

PS : Yes

C: What time did bingo start?

PS : 11:00

C: How long a drive from your house to Laurieton?

PS: Approx 20 mins.

C: Is that a regular trip you make?

PS: No I don't make it a lot.

C: From your statement about 10:35 I looked at my watch H was getting ready for bingo at Laurieton.

C: Where was she getting ready?

PS: Bedroom

C: What were you doing ?

PS: Getting ready

C: From your statement at 10:35 you thought she was getting late for bingo. H had her own car, a maroon coloured ford falcon.

C: About 10:37 or 10:38 she left?

PS: I think that's about the time.

C: You were out of the house ?

PS: Yes for a moment

C: Her car was in the carport. You went out with her & waved her off. Gravel driveway?

PS: Yes

C: At that time did you notice anything else?

PS: No

C: If someone was at # 48 calling out.....

PS : I didn't heat it, I didn't hear nothing!

C: Are you certain that at that tome you heard no other noise?

PS : Yes

C: "I'll see you when you get back" - what you meant is "I'll see you when I get back"

C: H 's habit to do a bit of shopping, coffee with friends & usually home around 13:30 - 14:00

C: What did you do after H left?

PS: I went back inside , had radio on, locked up house.

C: Were you in the habit of having radio turned up quite loud? Did that annoy H?

PS: She adapted

C: You had it very loud, loud enough to hear it around the house.

C: There was a knock at the front door. That occurred as you were boiling the kettle & getting ready for tea & toast the second time.

C: Did you know the person at the door?

PS: Not at the time. Recognised her from around the area. She said to me have you seen a little boy, he's gone missing?

Thanks, dr. That just answers one of our questions. He says Heather's car was in the carport.
We already found that he said the camper was in the carport.
So, if he is not wrong about that, his own vehicle must have been in the driveway.

 

[they'll get you]

Here is some more of what PS had to say ............

C = Craddock
PS = paul savage
H= Heather
GN= Greg Newton
RG= Regina Newton

C: on 12/9/14 your recollection when you spoke to police , you got back ( from walk) at 08:50 & on that day according to your statement made on the 25/9/14 you did see a lady at a caravan, you used to talk to her for 1/2 hr or so.

C: When you got back home you state you said your wife was cooking ( as GN & RG were coming) .

C: According to phone records from landline , made call @ 09:02 to Casino Hospital ( where his brother was )

C: Did you have a mobile phone?

PS: Can't remember, more of an ornament, didn't use them.

C: When made the call you might have been outside.

C: What do you do after your usual walk?

PS: Have tea & toast.

C: Did you hear sound of children playing? ( From statement 25/9/14 assumed it was coming from Ellendale or FGM)

C: You knew FGM had these grandchildren?

PS: I'm not sure

PS: Didn't see the children, I didn't see them at all actually

C: by by 09:00-09:45 helped clean the kitchen

C: Second call 09:59, do you remember making that call as we sit here today?

PS : No. I remember ringing, not time or date.

C: You were making arrangements to pick up your brother ( Laurie ) from Casino hospital & taken him to his home & look after him for a week or so. Planned to leave @ 11:00

PS : Yes

C: Wife H had regular plan for Fridays?

PS : Yes

C: Bingo?

PS: Yes

C: Laurieton?

PS : Yes

C: What time did bingo start?

PS : 11:00

C: How long a drive from your house to Laurieton?

PS: Approx 20 mins.

C: Is that a regular trip you make?

PS: No I don't make it a lot.

C: From your statement about 10:35 I looked at my watch H was getting ready for bingo at Laurieton.

C: Where was she getting ready?

PS: Bedroom

C: What were you doing ?

PS: Getting ready

C: From your statement at 10:35 you thought she was getting late for bingo. H had her own car, a maroon coloured ford falcon.

C: About 10:37 or 10:38 she left?

PS: I think that's about the time.

C: You were out of the house ?

PS: Yes for a moment

C: Her car was in the carport. You went out with her & waved her off. Gravel driveway?

PS: Yes

C: At that time did you notice anything else?

PS: No

C: If someone was at # 48 calling out.....

PS : I didn't heat it, I didn't hear nothing!

C: Are you certain that at that tome you heard no other noise?

PS : Yes

C: "I'll see you when you get back" - what you meant is "I'll see you when I get back"

C: H 's habit to do a bit of shopping, coffee with friends & usually home around 13:30 - 14:00

C: What did you do after H left?

PS: I went back inside , had radio on, locked up house.

C: Were you in the habit of having radio turned up quite loud? Did that annoy H?

PS: She adapted

C: You had it very loud, loud enough to hear it around the house.

C: There was a knock at the front door. That occurred as you were boiling the kettle & getting ready for tea & toast the second time.

C: Did you know the person at the door?

PS: Not at the time. Recognised her from around the area. She said to me have you seen a little boy, he's gone missing?

You are gold DOC.

This reminds me of my parents’ routine. Dad would sit with a cuppa or dither around with the radio loud enough to hear through the house while mum would fluff around while she got ready for church etc and both were deaf enough not to hear anything outside.

Maybe mum was happy to get out as dad would listen to the radio and then decide to turn on the tv to watch the morning news all at once. Maybe that’s what PS meant by she adapted.