Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

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ScumbagTrav said:
Could be. I hadn't considered that, but im very familiar with an area of KY because of annual visits as a child/teen. It hasn't changed much over the decades, and if I went there today not a soul would know who i was...but i could navigate around with my eyes closed (figuratively speaking).
Click to expand...
May I ask where in Ky?
 
StarryStarryNight said:
I can only think of two search warrants that were issued specifically related to the Delphi investigation. The first was for the house on Bicycle Road on February 16 2017 and the second was for RL’s property about a week or so later. You have to figure the one for RL’s property was mostly due to it’s proximity to the crime scene but the Bicycle Road search warrant was always a mystery, to me anyway, as to why it was issued etc. Is this the one you say “...stemmed from the results of of the tracking dog’s trail”? That’s very interesting. I have never heard that before. Wondering where that info came from.
As I’ve said before, in my opinion, since the April PC everything from early in the investigation needs to really be looked at closely, like these search warrants. It would be great to know what led LE to issue the search warrants, what they were looking for, and why they haven’t been back. Pretty sure that’s not going to happen though.
Click to expand...

There were 3 Search warrants right at the beginning.
BBR
RL property
Peru, IN
Then, in an article, it read that they have served approx. 70 search warrants and subpoenas and have checked on dozens of RSOs.
Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation
 
Spartygirl said:
There were 3 Search warrants right at the beginning.
BBR
RL property
Peru, IN
Then, in an article, it read that they have served approx. 70 search warrants and subpoenas and have checked on dozens of RSOs.
Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I do remember the Peru one now that you mention it. The others I hadn’t heard about. We would all love to know the details I know.
 
I'm fighting a personal opinion that there was more than one killer involved here. The whole thing stinks of retribution for something or other. I imagine it could be a SK, or a crime of opportunity, but I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around believing that.

I imagine it's been discussed ad nauseum, but doesn't it appear possible there could have been one or more perps at the bottom of that hill? On that driveway? Or in the woods waiting?

I worked in a public school for two decades. I know teenagers can be mean. Real mean. Nasty mean. I always used to say the toughest place for a kid to be was in school.

So, has there been talk of associations, cliques, boyfriends, you know, typical school stuff these girls would have been involved in? Any evidence these two girls had some enemies in school?

I mean, I recall full blown bullying and hateful stuff would break out on a cheerleading team, or the softball team. Stuff that would be incomprehensible to the average adult, unless they were a parent, or worked in public school.

Boys punch each other, they fight. Girls do too, but the girls, they also attempt to destroy each other's reputations. With all respect, teen girls can be mean.....nasty mean. I know. I've seen my share of it.

Or maybe all is bliss in the Delphi public schools.

Kids know dang near everything. They talk, discuss, rat each other out, set up one another, hold grudges, etc. etc.

Aw heck, I'm just ramblin'.
 
TL4S said:
Good question! I think they have usable DNA. Here's what Tobe Leazenby said about it in June 2018. BBM

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet.

“This is out of the box, so what can it hurt?”

Leazenby said Indiana State Police Maj. Steve Holland telephoned Leazenby after the Journal & Courier interviewed Holland, who is director of the Indiana State Police laboratories. Leazenby said Holland was giving him a courtesy call to expect the J&C's questions about familial DNA.

“That’s being discussed," Leazenby said of the outcome of Holland's call, "but there hasn’t been a decision made yet. It’s on the table.

“It might help us reach success.”


And just an extra for anyone interested in reading an overview of what they can do with touch DNA:

Touch DNA: From the Crime Scene to the Crime Laboratory
Click to expand...

I think they have useable DNA too. I suspect it might be touch DNA or DNA from something collected at the scene. Now they’ve just got to figure out whose it is (if they haven’t already), prove when the DNA was deposited (DNA does not have a time stamp), and the circumstances in which it was deposited (during this crime, sometime prior, sometime after). All of this would take some time even with evidence in this case being fast tracked.
 
stattlich1 said:
I'm fighting a personal opinion that there was more than one killer involved here. The whole thing stinks of retribution for something or other. I imagine it could be a SK, or a crime of opportunity, but I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around believing that.

I imagine it's been discussed ad nauseum, but doesn't it appear possible there could have been one or more perps at the bottom of that hill? On that driveway? Or in the woods waiting?

I worked in a public school for two decades. I know teenagers can be mean. Real mean. Nasty mean. I always used to say the toughest place for a kid to be was in school.

So, has there been talk of associations, cliques, boyfriends, you know, typical school stuff these girls would have been involved in? Any evidence these two girls had some enemies in school?

I mean, I recall full blown bullying and hateful stuff would break out on a cheerleading team, or the softball team. Stuff that would be incomprehensible to the average adult, unless they were a parent, or worked in public school.

Boys punch each other, they fight. Girls do too, but the girls, they also attempt to destroy each other's reputations. With all respect, teen girls can be mean.....nasty mean. I know. I've seen my share of it.

Or maybe all is bliss in the Delphi public schools.

Kids know dang near everything. They talk, discuss, rat each other out, set up one another, hold grudges, etc. etc.

Aw heck, I'm just ramblin'.
Click to expand...
No problem, as long as you ramble the truth, which you are. Not every teen is mean, but many can be horrifically mean.
JMO
 
ScumbagTrav said:
Could explain the recent rumblings from the Gray Hughes call in show with his caller Dennis, alluding that BG was still in the area the time Derrick arrived on scene.
Click to expand...
Yes that's the caller I was referring to in my two posts. That whole conversation with him was very upsetting. Thinking that the killer hung around and was there, possibly watching, when Libby's dad was searching for her. I voiced early when I came to this case that maybe the killer hung around in thed woods, maybe had a bag stashed to change clothes/appearance (there was talk of the guy with a duffel bag walking alongofvthe highway) but most people thought he got outg of the area quickly. Maybe he didnt.
 
sunshineray said:
Yes that's the caller I was referring to in my two posts. That whole conversation with him was very upsetting. Thinking that the killer hung around and was there, possibly watching, when Libby's dad was searching for her. I voiced early when I came to this case that maybe the killer hung around in thed woods, maybe had a bag stashed to change clothes/appearance (there was talk of the guy with a duffel bag walking alongofvthe highway) but most people thought he got outg of the area quickly. Maybe he didnt.
Click to expand...
I wonder if the killer is actually the guy the dad saw. More so now with the passing of time and nothing new to go on. Hence the difference in the BG sketches and
LE’s obvious frustration! IMO
If anyone can refute this please do because I easily could have missed this! TIA
Waving from Kentucky myself!
 
stattlich1 said:
I'm fighting a personal opinion that there was more than one killer involved here. The whole thing stinks of retribution for something or other. I imagine it could be a SK, or a crime of opportunity, but I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around believing that.

I imagine it's been discussed ad nauseum, but doesn't it appear possible there could have been one or more perps at the bottom of that hill? On that driveway? Or in the woods waiting?

I worked in a public school for two decades. I know teenagers can be mean. Real mean. Nasty mean. I always used to say the toughest place for a kid to be was in school.

So, has there been talk of associations, cliques, boyfriends, you know, typical school stuff these girls would have been involved in? Any evidence these two girls had some enemies in school?

I mean, I recall full blown bullying and hateful stuff would break out on a cheerleading team, or the softball team. Stuff that would be incomprehensible to the average adult, unless they were a parent, or worked in public school.

Boys punch each other, they fight. Girls do too, but the girls, they also attempt to destroy each other's reputations. With all respect, teen girls can be mean.....nasty mean. I know. I've seen my share of it.

Or maybe all is bliss in the Delphi public schools.

Kids know dang near everything. They talk, discuss, rat each other out, set up one another, hold grudges, etc. etc.

Aw heck, I'm just ramblin'.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with the possibly of more than one person involved. I keep going back to the fact that Libby’s grandma said she kept asking to go to the trails in the weeks leading up to the murders. I also read somewhere (maybe here) that the trails in the area were a teen hangout and a shed located close to the trail was often used by various groups/clubs in the area for meeting/hangout purposes. The girls were at the age where they probably wanted to hang out or associate with
“older” kids. IMO
 
Does anyone have a profile of what this person is or does? I would love to hear them. No specific POI's of course.
Just a narrowing of what you feel this person is like.

Some of the things I feel fit the perpetrator :

I think he is young. Probably currently in his early 20's.
I think he knows Delphi well and lives close by.
I think he is clean cut and "upstanding" by appearances.
I think most people have encountered him that live in Delphi (unknowingly) .
I think he attended Purdue University when Libby was taking Summer classes .
I think he is probably a red head.
I think he is deeply religious.
February probably holds significance for him.
I think that he is NOT heavy set.. but more likely thin.
I think he has worked closely with young people in some capacity.
I think he left through the cemetery , and walked to his vehicle that was parked elsewhere.
I think he is still in the Delphi area. If he wasn't , it would be noticed.
I think at LEAST one family member knows what he did and they are either in denial or they are covering for him.
I think... he will do it again.
All Amateur Speculation and MOO.
 
I'm not seeing it with the age group. Certainly the man in the video was not in the same age group as Abby/Libby, but much older. The theory that he met up with them on the internet is absurd; as LE would have caught up with that very quickly.
 
This post is in response to the SA suspected simply because LE had a search warrant for an RSO.
It is Standard Operating Procedure for LE to check ALL RSO’s within the vicinity that any child goes missing.
Here is a link to the documents & a snippet about the RSO’s in particular:

LAW-ENFORCEMENT POLICY AND PROCEDURES

FOR REPORTS OF

MISSING AND ABDUCTED CHILDREN

— A MODEL —

– Developed by –

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children®



Section IV, A-5, pg 9


Access should also be made to Sex Offender Registries to determine if individuals designated as sex offenders reside, work, or might otherwise be associated with the area. All available background information is critical to responding officers and investigative personnel to help evaluate the incident and interview witnesses or possible suspects.

http://www.missingkids.com/content/dam/missingkids/pdfs/Law Enforcement Missing Child Policy.pdf

MOO
 
There were 12 search warrants, and the remaining 58 of the 70 or so mandated evidence collection orders were subpoenas. Keep in mind that search warrants can include people like RSOs or known drug offenders in the area that LE had to check off their list. The subpoenas include orders for phone records, cell tower info, Google search histories, surveillance footage, etc. Just saying, the “70 search warrants” ‘info’ being thrown around doesn’t at all mean they had that many suspects or POIs. Not even close.
 
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