CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #58

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thanks for all the responses to my thoughts on CB testimony. i want all to know i find CB very credible, my concern with the credibility was my thinking that the defense might point the differences out during cross and how that might affect the jury. but the comments about LE guiding/suggesting what early comments were best made me think that it will work out ok if defense does raise the issue. another thing about the tooth talk is i remember early on that reportedly KK told LE that PF had told her to look for a tooth that might have gone near a vent.
it was reported again in this recent article,
"After the attack, Frazee allegedly asked Kenney to come and clean up the blood in Berreth’s home. She brought a box of latex gloves, a white suit, booties, bleach, two trash bags and a hair net to help clean the scene, Slater said. Frazee even asked her to look for Berreth’s tooth near a vent, the agent said."

Trial For Patrick Frazee Will Hinge On Testimony From Alleged Accomplice Krystal Lee

haven't read anything about KK finding a tooth in the condo, though. but i think it's entirely possible she did find a tooth and is not being honest about that. if they gave her a polygraph i hope the tooth issue was discussed during it.
From the Arrest Affidavit page 8 concerning "the tooth":

66. "......While she was blindfolded an distracted, he hit her with the bat, causing her death. Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged. Lee stated she in fact found that tooth, including the tooth root and later disposed of it."
 
I try to be compassionate, even for suspects' family members during a time like this. I know it's a horrifying and shocking experience for these families, and their pain is enormous when it's their loved one that is the murderer- they get practically no understanding at all in the public or community. They get those looks and comments in public for the rest of their days. With social media, it's hard for them to even move away, someone always finds them.

That said, going by what Cheryl said on the witness stand, I have absolutely not one shred of sympathy for her or that family- the granddaughter of a "hooker", in granny's eyes, she and her son wanted so called custody of? That same mother she tossed that "hooker" on her tail when she found out she was pregnant with this child they allegedly wanted custody of? The same woman who was shunned and made to go out on the deck outside when the sister came over to visit?

If I am on the jury listening to all of this- my usual sympathy for some suspects' families would be shot to hell. If anything, who would have blamed Kelsey if she didn't take the baby and run as far away as she could from those classless, cold hearted monsters. That's a family I wouldn't go near with a ten foot pole.
Well said, Steelslady, and I can't imagine a juror who didn't go to bed Friday night picturing sweet Kelsey being treated that way.

The DA's plan to have that testimony stand alone on Friday was masterful!
 
I’m not sure we’ll find out her true reasoning for not calling LE.

She had already made trips there to murder KB, although it didn’t happen. She might have felt that she was already deep into it (duh) and he likely made threats that convinced her he’d drag her into any investigation, threatening what he’s inferring now, that she was behind it all.

I still think she had more to do with this than we will never know. But I also think he planned for KK to truly be the murderer, she just didn’t follow through on his orders.

JMO
True, that was probably his master plan. But he is such an idiot---it doesn't really matter which one of them did it---it just matters which one of them gets the plea deal first.

Even if she had given KB a poisoned Frappaccino, PF would be going down for murder as well. JMO
 
yes, Yes, YES!!!
I really think he was getting KK to do it because then if anything happened SHE would take the fall....and I think he's hoping for that now. At least that he can wriggle out of a conviction because of KK being the "jealous mistress" with KB being "in her way" because PF is so (reaching for barf bag) desirable.

and seriously...drag the garbage can down the street? why so everyone and their security camera see KK doing that? um YEAH! Hey give KB a poisoned coffee...um that has your fingerprints all over it. Or beat her with this metal bar...so that you KB and KK fight and all of KKs blonde hair goes flying all over KBs condo...sure, yeah.
it is a good point here.
PF was well aware of the cctv around KBs condo.
remember dear father figure told him to not collect the package at the front door because of the camera??:confused::confused:
why would it matter??
he was asked to go get it more or less. CB told him there was a parcel coming for bubba.

so how ever he removed Kelsey from the premises he was fully aware of being captured on cctv.

moo
 
it is a good point here.
PF was well aware of the cctv around KBs condo.
remember dear father figure told him to not collect the package at the front door because of the camera??:confused::confused:
why would it matter??
he was asked to go get it more or less. CB told him there was a parcel coming for bubba.

so how ever he removed Kelsey from the premises he was fully aware of being captured on cctv.

moo
I wonder if this will be examined at trial - it’s very telling IMO
 
it is a good point here.
PF was well aware of the cctv around KBs condo.
remember dear father figure told him to not collect the package at the front door because of the camera??:confused::confused:
why would it matter??
he was asked to go get it more or less. CB told him there was a parcel coming for bubba.

so how ever he removed Kelsey from the premises he was fully aware of being captured on cctv.

moo
Did he actually say it was because of the camera? I thought he said he didn't want him to be seen going to the condo but not necessarily because he was aware there was a camera facing the front door.
Imo
 
From the Arrest Affidavit page 8 concerning "the tooth":

66. "......While she was blindfolded an distracted, he hit her with the bat, causing her death. Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged. Lee stated she in fact found that tooth, including the tooth root and later disposed of it."

Iirc somewhere it was stated that he hit her in the back of the head first, then this reads he hit her in the face, so now I’m wondering if this may confirm he hit her at least twice? First blow to back of the head then additional hit to her face dislodging the tooth?
 
Well, this is one time where the decorum order comes in handy.
Including the possible prohibition on mental images of PF.
BBM:

Is there such a thing as a "mental tent" we can toss that mental image into?

Because if not, I'm going to be tossing something else.

4847.gif
 
thanks for all the responses to my thoughts on CB testimony. i want all to know i find CB very credible, my concern with the credibility was my thinking that the defense might point the differences out during cross and how that might affect the jury. but the comments about LE guiding/suggesting what early comments were best made me think that it will work out ok if defense does raise the issue. another thing about the tooth talk is i remember early on that reportedly KK told LE that PF had told her to look for a tooth that might have gone near a vent.
it was reported again in this recent article,
"After the attack, Frazee allegedly asked Kenney to come and clean up the blood in Berreth’s home. She brought a box of latex gloves, a white suit, booties, bleach, two trash bags and a hair net to help clean the scene, Slater said. Frazee even asked her to look for Berreth’s tooth near a vent, the agent said."

Trial For Patrick Frazee Will Hinge On Testimony From Alleged Accomplice Krystal Lee

haven't read anything about KK finding a tooth in the condo, though. but i think it's entirely possible she did find a tooth and is not being honest about that. if they gave her a polygraph i hope the tooth issue was discussed during it.

IMHO the defense isn't going to bring up something that will ultimately hurt their client and I believe going after CB's statements during that time period would only serve to do just that. Context matters. At that point the man CB suspected of doing something horrible to her daughter was in possession of her one year old granddaughter. Think about it...CB was so worried about PF's history of volatile behavior that she felt the need to placate him in press when responding to questions about him and his relationship with Kelsey. The defense is going to do everything they can to avoid those conclusions being drawn by the jury.
 
Did he actually say it was because of the camera? I thought he said he didn't want him to be seen going to the condo but not necessarily because he was aware there was a camera facing the front door.
Imo
bbm yes

“Upon arriving, (the friend) further reported he instructed Patrick to remain in the vehicle while he (the friend) went to the front door and retrieved the package,” according to documents.

The friend told the detectives he wanted Frazee to stay in the vehicle so he would not be seen on the neighbor’s surveillance cameras. He said to investigators Frazee was not involved in the disappearance of Berreth but law enforcement should look into a Southwest Airlines pilot who Berreth formally dated.

Search warrants reveal new details in Kelsey Berreth case | East Idaho News
 
Am I the only one who's sad that @GoJacks won't be there when SF takes the stand?

Then again, it might be a precious waste of his time and the medias.

"I plead the 5th".
He did say he was going to try hard to be there when KK takes the hot seat. I am thrilled to hear that. It would be phenomenal if he was able to take notes for that testimony.
 
He did say he was going to try hard to be there when KK takes the hot seat. I am thrilled to hear that. It would be phenomenal if he was able to take notes for that testimony.

Look what an amazing story GoJacks told without taking notes and imagine how much better it will be next time!
(I wonder if we've put enough pressure on for more fantastic days like Friday?)

This is sparkly magic dust that I hope gets him there tomorrow!
> ........................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................
.......
....................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................

Just shake it over your head, GoJacks.
 
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bbm yes

“Upon arriving, (the friend) further reported he instructed Patrick to remain in the vehicle while he (the friend) went to the front door and retrieved the package,” according to documents.

The friend told the detectives he wanted Frazee to stay in the vehicle so he would not be seen on the neighbor’s surveillance cameras. He said to investigators Frazee was not involved in the disappearance of Berreth but law enforcement should look into a Southwest Airlines pilot who Berreth formally dated.

Search warrants reveal new details in Kelsey Berreth case | East Idaho News
Amazing that he still carried out the murder at the townhouse knowing there was a camera facing the door.
I wonder why the camera didn't capture him carrying out the body or KK going into and leaving the townhouse.
I wonder if they went through a window or how they avoided being captured on camera.

Imo
 
Amazing that he still carried out the murder at the townhouse knowing there was a camera facing the door.
I wonder why the camera didn't capture him carrying out the body or KK going into and leaving the townhouse.
I wonder if they went through a window or how they avoided being captured on camera.

Imo
BBM
And this is another $64,000 question we're hoping will be answered during this trial. I don't trust KK as far a I could throw her (not too far I imagine :)) BUT, the DA hasn't disclosed everything she's told them and we may be in for some answers yet! JMHO
 
Haha, thank you! Honestly I could have done a way better job.
Next time, I'll actually take notes. I wasn't 100% sure what I could or could not bring in. Luckily, I have a pretty good memory. Also this allowed me to focus more on expressions (or lack there of) taking place.
Unfortunately, can't be there every day. (I wish, ugh). Dying to see the cross-exam of CB. She seems like such a kind and sweet lady, can't imagine they can go too hard on her and expect the jury to respect that. (jmo)

I usually don't work long hours on Friday, so that's my best bet of making it again.
I plan on trying to make it to KK's testimony. Of course if they throw her on the stand with no heads up, I won't be there.

Also, lets hope the weather cooperates.

SEND ME ALL THE SONIC GIFTCARDS, PLEASE.
Enough gift cards and i'll run through the circus tent. jk no i wont!!!! (they're probably reading this)
Next week on the Decorum: no posting to websleuths.


*also currently reading through the first thread of her being missing. bringing back some memories and also all the questions people were asking are now being answered.
so, does this mean we will have to rely on MMM for information until Friday?
(((sad pout face)))
 
I wonder why it was specified that she was forced to wait outside when only the sister came over. What about the brother and his wife, or SF herself?
What was it about the sister being there that they didn't want KB in the house?
Did she have a particular dislike for her? Did she refuse to be in the same house with her? Why just the sister?
Might not be the case here, but I once knew a guy that did this exact same thing thing to a friend of mine.
(I remember he told her in a heated argument," My sister is #1. I don't know what ever made you think you're #1.!).

Turns out, he and his sister had a very incestuous relationship. Not saying this is the case here, but it would't surprise me. (I wonder, do PF and his sister look alike?). The cretin and sister, my friend was involved with could have been twins... (They love themselves these narcissists!).
 
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Amazing that he still carried out the murder at the townhouse knowing there was a camera facing the door.
I wonder why the camera didn't capture him carrying out the body or KK going into and leaving the townhouse.
I wonder if they went through a window or how they avoided being captured on camera.

Imo

I believe we are going to learn in court that the neighbor's surveillance camera is an inexpensive system that either had no wide-angle range or was only focused at door height.

We already learned in the arrest documents that the homeowner did not subscribe to cloud storage service for the surveillance camera footage, and used only a free service for the keeping footage short term. I don't recall the particulars but think the capacity about 3-4 days before deleting to store the latest images.

MOO

ETA: I think more details about this discussed during the preliminary hearing and why the prosecution had "stills" from the surveillance, and not "video" footage. Not stating facts -- only my recollection.
 
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BBM
And this is another $64,000 question we're hoping will be answered during this trial. I don't trust KK as far a I could throw her (not too far I imagine :)) BUT, the DA hasn't disclosed everything she's told them and we may be in for some answers yet! JMHO
True. I suppose there actually could be more video evidence that we don't know about yet.
Or maybe they went out one of the windows. I wonder if there is a window on the side where the alley is or if they went out the kitchen window. It might explain why there was blood on the curtains.

Imo
 
Jury selected for Patrick Frazee murder trial, opening statements begin
SABBM:

Ashley Porter, one of Frazee's defense attorneys, said no murder weapon has been found, Berreth's body hasn't been found, and the only blood jurors will see is "tiny, minuscule spots of blood under the floor boards." She added that Frazee has cooperated with law enforcement, gave his phone, and took pictures in the nude so investigators could see any marks on him.

That bolded part pisses me off. What kind of marks would he have on him? He is twice her size, swinging a bat, and she had no idea he was a danger, she was blindfolded and blindsided. What kind of marks would we expect him to have---besides a 666 across his forehead?
 
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