Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #10

[KonaHonu]

MOO If this statement is right.. the date of 12/10 makes me sick. Does Chad get a call from his kids saying Mom’s body has been exhumed?!

Well they did show up then disappear. Maybe one call came (exhumed/AC dead) then another and they flew home to deal with the inconveniences.

 

[KonaHonu]

F

Contempt of court - Wikipedia

If Lori doesn't show up at court, she will probably get a "Contempt of Court" charge. I believe, that is when the federal marshals can get involved.

She will say that the kids were with Alex. Or Melani? Where has she been hiding? And what about their spouses?

Federal marshalls do not enforce state court orders. If it is civil contempt no one will enforce it.

 

[mickey2942]

That's what keeps eating at me. They are not behaving like people on the run. They do not appear nervous in interactions with the police, not just now but going back to CV's shooting. I live here in Hawaii and, trust me, it would be VERY easy to just disappear here, at least on the Big Island. We have lap-of-luxury places, but you'd be tracked there. We also have beautiful places where no one would every find you. With a little money you can hire people to turn your little place into luxury.

They could start going by Kada and Loli (Hawaiian versions of their names), befriend a few locals and let them know the heat is on and half the island would protect them. It did not take me long after I moved here to figure that out so given Loli's history I'm sure she is aware of that.

I have a friend who is a cop here and after telling him where I live (behind a gate, half a mile up a private road, and 200 yards down my private driveway) he told me he could never take a call to my house unless I, as the owner, called 911 from my property...and I'd have to give them the gate code because, while the fire department has it, the police do not. Unless I were accused of a very serious crime, it would be hard to get a search warrant because the judge would question why they are intruding on my privacy. He used to work on the mainland and says being a cop here is a joke because they are so restricted and short handed. They can't do much more than respond to immediate emergencies and write traffic tickets to raise money for the county. Please don't take this as disparagement of LE, far from it. We have a huge ice problem and lots of petty crime like theft. They just don't have the resources to deal with it and the county will never have the budget to get them the resources they need. Every time a tourist gets bit by a shark, has a purse snatched, or gets their car broken into it takes all of the police resources for one quarter of the island for a up to half a shift. A car accident is similar. If someone is seriously injured or killed, the police are 100% shut down for most of that day on at least half the island!

Look into what is going on in Honolulu right now. The police chief was indicted on federal corruption charges as as was his wife a senior prosecutor. Her boss the city/county prosecutor was recently forced out as well for helping her. Her brother, a prominent doctor and her were indicted for drug trafficking by the feds. No one in authority in Hawaii acted. They were not even investigated. Other senior cops assisted in their crimes. The feds had to step in. My point is, this is the wild west, unless you are on drugs, it's very easy to get away with almost anything. Even murderers don't get long sentences the first couple of times. McGarret is not on the job here!

My partner has a very close relative who has been on the "run" here since shooting at the cops a couple of years ago. She has no idea where he is of course but another relative of hers, a cop, joked at a family event recently that they'll never find him because he just isn't a priority. That's the way things are here. It's not that the cops are incompetent. It's just that it's a vast area, mostly remote, and the tax base only supports a tiny police force. Kauai is not much different. They could easily blend in and disappear yet they chose not to.

My point is only that this would be an easy place to just disappear even if you had killed half a dozen people. Lori would have known that. Yet they chose to leave tracks and be in the open. That confuses me. Maybe it's just narcissism and not being capable of tasting death. But it could also be innocence. MM

Exactly. Police in Las Vegas don't even want to be bothered, unless there was a shooting. Child welfare checks? That is so far down the list...

Which even in Rexburg, ID, there was obviously something going on, for a Police Officer "Welfare Check" for a juvenile, usually that is for CPS. By November, the police already knew that there was a problem here.

 

[KonaHonu]

So they checked out of the place they were searched at(KBR). Do we know where they went? Another hotel? Redeye to SLC? Someone mentioned the Marriott Lihue. Do we know that or is it speculation?

BTW, no one questioned this but it's pretty common around here to checkout and still use the resort facilities (pool etc). They are usually pretty chill about that and most resorts even have hospitality rooms to change in before your late night flight. Sometimes they charge tourists but if you ask as a local they generally don't charge. Lots of flights leave Hawaii in the late evening to hit mainland cities early in the morning.

 

[KonaHonu]

Chad and Lori, if you are reading this and wondering what your last name is in Hawaiian, maybe Kewela with a kahako over the first e. Your last name might mean "the hot one" in Hawaiian. I'm sure you will think that is fitting!

 

[Friday Fan]

Exactly. Police in Las Vegas don't even want to be bothered, unless there was a shooting. Child welfare checks? That is so far down the list...

Which even in Rexburg, ID, there was obviously something going on, for a Police Officer "Welfare Check" for a juvenile, usually that is for CPS. By November, the police already knew that there was a problem here.

Is anyone tempted to protest??? I wanna go to Rexburg and protest in front of their PD and hold signs, "Where are the kids?". Could a gang of us put pressure on them?

I actually do engage in some protests. (Some aren't fruitful. Some I participate because of my friends) But, this is a protest waiting to happen and I think it would have a positive outcome. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Makes sense. Never heard of a state not allowing an extradition within the US.
I've heard of criminals fighting it, but I've never heard of them being successful.

I am not sure about interstate extradition, but a general principle of extradition is whether the prosecuting jurisdiction can show a prima facie case.

At state level , I am guessing a valid felony indictment in the original jurisdiction meets that standard?

i.e you have enough evidence to reach a charging standard. I suppose to avoid extradition you would have to raise some kind of lack of fairness or malfeasance.

WIKI

The requesting executive must also produce a copy of an indictment found or an affidavit made before a magistrate of any state or territory. The document must charge the fugitive demanded with having committed treason, felony, or other crime, and it must be certified as authentic by the governor or chief magistrate of the state or territory from where the person so charged has fled.

 

[tealrose]

So they checked out of the place they were searched at(KBR). Do we know where they went? Another hotel? Redeye to SLC? Someone mentioned the Marriott Lihue. Do we know that or is it speculation?

I can't figure out which Twitter or Facebook it was - I'm half asleep - but it was one of the reporters that was there in Hawaii. The Nate guy and two others, but not the Lum one, I don't think. An Adam or similar name? The Nate one mentions on his Facebook that they moved to another hotel, but I'm pretty sure it was a different tweet/post/article that stated the name of the hotel.

 

[tealrose]

I think it would have a positive outcome.

I think that would be a rather pointless project. Who would you hope to get a reaction from? Law enforcement, who is clearly already working harder than is visible to us?

Or Lori, on the off chance she happened to show? Nah, she'd either not give a *advertiser censored*, or worse, she'd be pleased at the attention she was getting.

 

[mickey2942]

Is anyone tempted to protest??? I wanna go to Rexburg and protest in front of their PD and hold signs, "Where are the kids?". Could a gang of us put pressure on them?

I actually do engage in some protests. (Some aren't fruitful. Some I participate because of my friends) But, this is a protest waiting to happen and I think it would have a positive outcome. MOO

The police are following the law, and I think Idaho is pretty serious about getting Lori back to Rexburg. Looks like they are chomping at the bit for her to ignore the judge's order. They will pay to get Lori back to Idaho. Look at all of the LEO they have right now in Hawaii.

I think that the police have been very methodical and meticulous in this case. I believe that the desire to have Lori and Chad face the "music", has probably sliced through jurisdictional issues like a knife in warm butter. LEO wants them.

There is probably a plan here, that will fall like dominoes. The only sticking point, is Alex. He could be easily blamed for everything. I really want to know how he died.

 

[KonaHonu]

I am not sure about interstate extradition, but a general principle of extradition is whether the prosecuting jurisdiction can show a prima facie case.

At state level , I am guessing a valid felony indictment in the original jurisdiction meets that standard?

i.e you have enough evidence to reach a charging standard. I suppose to avoid extradition you would have to raise some kind of lack of fairness or malfeasance.

After some research... all US states have extradition with each other under the "Extradition Clause," of the US Constitution, Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2 which states:

"A person charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime."

The rub is in the definition of a crime. It's not necessarily how we understand it today. You have to look at what it meant in the 1700s. It was an offense against society where there would be significant punishment, much like a felony today. The most common crimes in colonial times were drunkeness, blasphemy, idleness, lying, and Sabbath violations.

I doubt most of those would hold up today.

I dunno, living here, I think it might be hard to convince a Hawaii judge to extradite simply for contempt of court.

If they are charged with a felony then yes, back to the cold on the next flight. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

After some research... all US states have extradition with each other under the "Extradition Clause," of the US Constitution, Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2 which states:

"A person charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime."

The rub is in the definition of a crime. It's not necessarily how we understand it today. You have to look at what it meant in the 1700s. It was an offense against society where there would be significant punishment, much like a felony today. The most common crimes in colonial times were drunkeness, blasphemy, idleness, lying, and Sabbath violations.

I doubt most of those would hold up today.

I dunno, living here, I think it might be hard to convince a Hawaii judge to extradite simply for contempt of court.

If they are charged with a felony then yes, back to the cold on the next flight. MOO

One possibility is they will use the failure to comply with the court order as the basis for a felony indictment.

i.e. failure to produce the kids gives rise to probable cause?

 

[mrjitty]

One thing i don't understand is that where a 7 year old is missing, the police seem to be moving very slowly?

Is this because they know there is no rush for some reason? e.g the 7 year old is with someone else?

 

[mrjitty]

The police are following the law, and I think Idaho is pretty serious about getting Lori back to Rexburg. Looks like they are chomping at the bit for her to ignore the judge's order. They will pay to get Lori back to Idaho. Look at all of the LEO they have right now in Hawaii.

I think that the police have been very methodical and meticulous in this case. I believe that the desire to have Lori and Chad face the "music", has probably sliced through jurisdictional issues like a knife in warm butter. LEO wants them.

There is probably a plan here, that will fall like dominoes. The only sticking point, is Alex. He could be easily blamed for everything. I really want to know how he died.

I agree with all this - but it seems awfully slow for a missing child case?

If police arrive at their door in Hawaii and say hey where is your 7 year old child - you better have a credible story or hell will break loose?

Is it really possible to just refuse to cooperate and not been arrested by local LEO on suspicion immediately?

Or did they give some non-committal explanation?

Something seems strange here. I am knew to the case so could easily be missing something!

 

[mrjitty]

It's just a theory. Some people where I live feel that the government is over stepping boundaries by demanding Lori tell the police where the kids are located. They don't think parents should have to respond when the police or some other entity requests to see their children. I don't feel that way, but there is a bit of that sentiment in these parts. I've read a few comments in other forums that lean in that direction as well.

This is just such a strange case I don't even know where to begin to think about the potential criminal liability here.

Can you stash your 7 year old with caregivers then refuse to tell police?

I have no idea in my own jurisdiction let alone in Idaho!

 

[squareandrabbet]

I can't figure out which Twitter or Facebook it was - I'm half asleep - but it was one of the reporters that was there in Hawaii. The Nate guy and two others, but not the Lum one, I don't think. An Adam or similar name? The Nate one mentions on his Facebook that they moved to another hotel, but I'm pretty sure it was a different tweet/post/article that stated the name of the hotel.

Is it this dude?

Adam Herbets (@AdamHerbets) | Twitter

 

[tresir2012]

I’d guess that they saw reservations for the resort, but given that baggie Lori had, I’d guess they’re operating on cash...

Y‘ know, though, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if there were accounts in various business names, and C&L presuming their money is mostly untraceable.

I think when the 35k was stolen it was said Lori transferred it to her account then to an unknown account. I wonder if that was a Hawaii account?

 

[tresir2012]

It's just a theory. Some people where I live feel that the government is over stepping boundaries by demanding Lori tell the police where the kids are located. They don't think parents should have to respond when the police or some other entity requests to see their children. I don't feel that way, but there is a bit of that sentiment in these parts. I've read a few comments in other forums that lean in that direction as well.

Well those people are wrong. If a relative or friend is concerned enough to request a welfare check, the only reason someone would not want to produce them is because there is a problem with the kids, hurt, missing or worse.

 

[tresir2012]

So they had a long term lease and got new furniture. Something about that factoid made me a little queasy. Dang if they didn't think they got away with it.

They can't have had a long term lease because they had to move out for a buyer according to the neighbour. Maybe a monthly rently?

 

[tresir2012]

It would be interesting to know if a "potential buyer" actually came to tour the house that day and if maybe he/she happened to be an undercover LEO. Perhaps LE was checking the place out to see if Lori and Chad were really living there? It was the day before Lori was served with the order to produce the kids. From what the neighbor SL said Lori and Chad kept a very low profile and never hung out at the pool at their townhome. SL says he didn't see any lights on at night after they moved in, they never had any guests visit them, the townhome continued to look vacant and SL and wasn't sure if they were really staying there. If that's the case, then LE may have needed to verify that Lori and Chad were still there before serving the order and the search warrants. MOO.

Very good point. I bet you are right. Wanted to see if any evidence of kids there too maybe.