OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

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Dudly said:
Did you see anything in my reply saying I thought anyone was innocent? My reply was about what was said and how it was said and I stand by my reply.
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Dudly
I’m not trying to start an argument but please tell if the Wagners did these murders what made them do it if they was not natural horned killers,
 
(B) Other crimes, wrongs or acts. Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident. In criminal cases, the proponent of evidence to be offered under this rule shall provide reasonable notice in advance of trial, or during trial if the court excuses pretrial notice on good cause shown, of the general nature of any such evidence it intends to introduce at trial.

Begin reading with, "It may however..." IMO the State will use their prior acts to show motive, etc. , as stated above. Look back if needed. The Prosecution has stated this claim at the end of every single Discovery document they have filed. "Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts." Period.

And if anyone cares to reply, just where are the answers (from the 4 Defense teams) to the Prosecution's requests for reciprocal Discovery after each of the State's turnovers of Discovery????? There might be One, IIRC! Just like RN's case, nothing submitted in reciprocal Discovery yet. Ha ha what a joke of a joke of 8 defense attorneys, oh, I forgot...who can't read and understand Discovery. Lol All a ploy to milk the State out of every dollar they can suck dry. I hope the reason this March meeting I'd happening is to force them to do their own work if they expect to defend the killers in this massacre. All my opinion based on Discovery facts.

Rule 404 - Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes, Ohio R. Evid. 404 | Casetext
 
Loomis124 said:
Pike County sheriff, prosecutor feud after prosecutor asks sheriff to avoid criminal investigations

Still many hidden truths here, especially in Junk's posts. Reader isn't the only one guilty of crimes. According to Junk and crime reports in 2013. JMO As been said on here before, "a lot has been covered up." JMO
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Just a friendly reminder that this isn't the thread for that topic. There's a separate thread for that.

Just a reminder to keep posts on topic here.
 
Betty P said:
Just a friendly reminder that this isn't the thread for that topic. There's a separate thread for that.

Just a reminder to keep posts on topic here.
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I beg to differ. This article specifically discusses the murders, custody, arrests and other things related to the massacres. And I was referring specifically to Junk's posts, not Reader's.
 
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Dudly said:
Did you see anything in my reply saying I thought anyone was innocent? My reply was about what was said and how it was said and I stand by my reply.
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A lot of the threads in Websleuths are filled with opinions it's kind of how things have to go to work certain things out. We bounce thoughts off each other waiting for the facts to come out. Some facts we are able to hunt down for ourselves others we just wait and see what LE have managed to collect. Unless someone is braking ToS why not allow them their own opinions?
 
I would say that JW hopes he would get the death penalty if convicted because if he goes in prison with what charges he has the other prisoners will make his life Hell, and if GW4 gets convicted I really believe he will commit suicide soon after sentencing, AW will learn to adapt fast, being the controller she appears to be she will be some kind of inmate leader, BW I don’t think he will live very long because he is use to being on a big farm, outdoor living and doing what ever he wants to so I figure if BW was to get convicted he will have some kind of a hart attack or a stroke, again this is JMO and I’m just trying get everyone talking to keep the post going, what is your opinion Sluthers?
 
Johnny B Bad said:
I would say that JW hopes he would get the death penalty if convicted because if he goes in prison with what charges he has the other prisoners will make his life Hell, and if GW4 gets convicted I really believe he will commit suicide soon after sentencing, AW will learn to adapt fast, being the controller she appears to be she will be some kind of inmate leader, BW I don’t think he will live very long because he is use to being on a big farm, outdoor living and doing what ever he wants to so I figure if BW was to get convicted he will have some kind of a hart attack or a stroke, again this is JMO and I’m just trying get everyone talking to keep the post going, what is your opinion Sluthers?
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My opinion - Websleuths was created and is supposed to be a place for people to discuss information related to crimes, trials and unsolved cases. It always has been except for this particular case which has devolved into a chat room sadly. It really went off the rails the end of last year/beginning of this year. Chatting for the sake of chatting should be downstairs and not clogging up this case.
 
iridized said:
My opinion - Websleuths was created and is supposed to be a place for people to discuss information related to crimes, trials and unsolved cases. It always has been except for this particular case which has devolved into a chat room sadly. It really went off the rails the end of last year/beginning of this year. Chatting for the sake of chatting should be downstairs and not clogging up this case.
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Agree, there are plenty of places here at WS to chat informally. The Rhoden/Gilley Massacre has been a complicated crime and investigation. It helps if we can keep the threads focused on the evidence and trials to avoid confusion, misunderstandings and rumors. Keeping discussion focused makes it easier to research and retrieve relevant bits of news, evidence, etc. when necessary. It also helps others to follow what is a complex network of criminal cases against the Wagners - most of whom are facing more than 20 felony charges each. The less we muddy the waters, the more we can help people new to following these trials.
 
Loomis124 said:
Sorry, CC, just trying to catch up.

I agree, without a doubt, the past of all 4 is going to all come OUT and will be allowed, IMO. It's too important to the cases to not allow. AC and Pierson HAVE GOT THIS, IMO. AC has LIVED this case since April 22, 2016. Defense attorneys have no idea what all is coming. JMO
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I’m afraid you are going to be in for some shocks once trials start. For an example, I’ll use Sidney Moorer’s trial in Heather Elvis’s kidnapping case. The Moorer’s had home surveillance cameras on their property and in Sidney’s retrial, prosecution had video evidence of the Moorer’s spending hours cleaning the truck used to kidnap and murder her inside and out and BURNING the rags and materials as they were cleaning. In Sidney’s first trial (which was hung), the judge wouldn’t allow that video, saying it was prejudicial. It WAS allowed in the retrial, and jurors even said when they gave interviews after the guilty verdict that the video was instrumental in reaching a guilty verdict. They had seen pictures of how filthy their house was on the inside, and said they weren’t clean people so to spend that much time cleaning a brand new truck and then burning new rags after cleaning showed guilt. It’s not a no brainer that everything the prosecution has will make it, especially with THIS JUDGE, IMO...
 
On February 6th a Journal entry was put out for GW4 and it had a very important piece of information which I had previously posted about and I'll sum it up:

A meeting has been arranged, no date listed, for GW4's defense and the prosecution to meet at BCI so the prosecution can inform the defense about certain parts of recordings that were made and that these are recordings that GW4's attorneys may wish to focus upon.
(Multiple conversations were recorded with GW4 the most vocal).

So I have been checking the docket to see if the journal entries have been posted for the other 3 Wagners and by February 28 all were posted.

I wanted to check this because I expected that their journal entries would ALSO mention the recordings.

But there is no mention at all of the recordings. For all 3 Wagners the only thing mentioned about discovery is that on March 13 the defense and prosecution will meet at BCI to go over discovery and the prosecution will help get it organized for the defense.

Also I see that the 3 Wagners have future court dates listed for April but no future court date has yet been listed for GW4.

I'm just a little surprised because I find the discrepancies between GW4 and the other 3 Wagners to be slightly odd. Of course this all could mean absolutely nothing but I think it is worth noting.
 
Cool Cats said:
On February 6th a Journal entry was put out for GW4 and it had a very important piece of information which I had previously posted about and I'll sum it up:

A meeting has been arranged, no date listed, for GW4's defense and the prosecution to meet at BCI so the prosecution can inform the defense about certain parts of recordings that were made and that these are recordings that GW4's attorneys may wish to focus upon.
(Multiple conversations were recorded with GW4 the most vocal).

So I have been checking the docket to see if the journal entries have been posted for the other 3 Wagners and by February 28 all were posted.

I wanted to check this because I expected that their journal entries would ALSO mention the recordings.

But there is no mention at all of the recordings. For all 3 Wagners the only thing mentioned about discovery is that on March 13 the defense and prosecution will meet at BCI to go over discovery and the prosecution will help get it organized for the defense.

Also I see that the 3 Wagners have future court dates listed for April but no future court date has yet been listed for GW4.

I'm just a little surprised because I find the discrepancies between GW4 and the other 3 Wagners to be slightly odd. Of course this all could mean absolutely nothing but I think it is worth noting.
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CC
In your opinion do you think that there might be a chance GW4 and his attorney will ask for a plea deal?
 
Johnny B Bad said:
CC
In your opinion do you think that there might be a chance GW4 and his attorney will ask for a plea deal?
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GW4 wanted to go to trial and was the first of the 4 to have a date set, but his attorneys needed more discovery. I don't think GW4 will plea and admit any guilt, I think right now it is all about his attorneys defending him against anything incriminating he may have said on the tapes.

I think GW4 will want his attorneys to get the tapes thrown out or get parts omitted from his trial or spin them and do damage control etc...

Think about it though. Think about how you are having multiple conversations in your own home or your grandmother's home etc...and you start talking off the top of your head, off guard, not thinking about everything you are saying like we do at home. At home we say what we want, no one is listening right?

And imagine what the Wagners may have revealed.

I think that what the Wagners thought would happen was that eventually the case would die down and just stay a cold case and they would go on with their lives just like before but better, because they now have full permanent custody of not just one, but both children.. .

Then they got a surprise:

Murder has no statute of limitations and the BCI investigation and DeWine's laser focus will now follow them the rest of their lives, they will never be free of it, as Jake said in Alaska:
"It followed us here."

As they faced their new reality realizing they could be arrested, they then discussed breaking each other out of jail.

The Wagners must always have total control and they could not control HR and her family. This enraged them so they decided kill her and her family and regain total control.

The Wagners must always have total control and they cannot control LE continually investigating them. This enraged them so they began to plot revenge (which could mean murder) against LE and anyone who goes against them...2 Cents........:cool:
 
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Renee110 said:
I’m afraid you are going to be in for some shocks once trials start. For an example, I’ll use Sidney Moorer’s trial in Heather Elvis’s kidnapping case. The Moorer’s had home surveillance cameras on their property and in Sidney’s retrial, prosecution had video evidence of the Moorer’s spending hours cleaning the truck used to kidnap and murder her inside and out and BURNING the rags and materials as they were cleaning. In Sidney’s first trial (which was hung), the judge wouldn’t allow that video, saying it was prejudicial. It WAS allowed in the retrial, and jurors even said when they gave interviews after the guilty verdict that the video was instrumental in reaching a guilty verdict. They had seen pictures of how filthy their house was on the inside, and said they weren’t clean people so to spend that much time cleaning a brand new truck and then burning new rags after cleaning showed guilt. It’s not a no brainer that everything the prosecution has will make it, especially with THIS JUDGE, IMO...
Click to expand...

However, there is enough data that the defense has been able to make at least an initial case for a coordinator to help them sort through it all. IMOO, that's a lot of data.
 
Cool Cats said:
GW4 wanted to go to trial and was the first of the 4 to to have a date set, but his attorneys needed more discovery. I don't think GW4 will plea and admit any guilt, I think right now it is all about his attorneys defending him against anything incriminating he may have said on the tapes.

I think GW4 will want his attorneys to get the tapes thrown out or get parts omitted from from his trial or spin them and do damage control etc...

Think about it though. Think about how you are having multiple conversations in your own home or your grandmother's home etc...and you start talking off the top of your head, off guard, not thinking about everything you are saying like we do at home. At home we say what we want, no one is listening right?

And imagine what the Wagners may have revealed.

I think that what the Wagners thought would happen was that eventually the case would die down and just stay a cold case and they would go on with their lives just like before but better, because they now have full permanent custody of not just one, but both children.. .

Then they got a surprise:

Murder has no statute of limitations and the BCI investigation and DeWine's laser focus will now follow them the rest of their lives, they will never be free of it, as Jake said in Alaska:
"It followed us here."

As they faced their new reality they realized, yes, they could be arrested so they actually discussed breaking each other out of jail.

The Wagners must always have total control and they could not control HR and her family. This enraged them so they decided kill her and her family and regain total control.

The Wagners must always have total control and they cannot control LE continually investigating them. This enraged them so they began to plot revenge against LE and anyone who goes against them...2 Cents........:cool:
Click to expand...

I would think that every defense attorney touches on the possibility of a plea deal as a matter of course. Those conversations go on behind the scenes. MOO, sometimes the state bites and sometimes not. But the defendant would still have to agree to a plea. All MOO.
 
Johnny B Bad said:
I would say that JW hopes he would get the death penalty if convicted because if he goes in prison with what charges he has the other prisoners will make his life Hell, and if GW4 gets convicted I really believe he will commit suicide soon after sentencing, AW will learn to adapt fast, being the controller she appears to be she will be some kind of inmate leader, BW I don’t think he will live very long because he is use to being on a big farm, outdoor living and doing what ever he wants to so I figure if BW was to get convicted he will have some kind of a hart attack or a stroke, again this is JMO and I’m just trying get everyone talking to keep the post going, what is your opinion Sluthers?
Click to expand...
Each of your scenarios sounds pretty plausible to me.
 
GoBuckeyes said:
I would think that every defense attorney touches on the possibility of a plea deal as a matter of course. Those conversations go on behind the scenes. MOO, sometimes the state bites and sometimes not. But the defendant would still have to agree to a plea. All MOO.
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Yes, GW4 would have to agree to plea and I am guessing that he wants to go to trial because I haven't seen anything different since he wanted to go to trial last September 4th:

STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON

09/04/2019 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL

If the tapes are incriminating I believe he will want his attorneys to fight against them etc...
 
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