Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[ab01]

How is it that just about everyone who gets arrested for some crazy bs around there ends up looking EXACTLY like sketch number one? even a WOMAN now.

this blows my mind. mOO

Unfortunately sketches are often very unreliable. The fact that they are more often than not drawn off of peoples own fuzzy recollections often leaves them with having very general characteristics. (people generally think they have very precise recollections, but often they are inaccurate unless they are trained to retain specific things accurately). The thing that often gets forgotten is that they aren't drawn for joe social media person to recognize them and match them up with a photo of someone they saw online. They are targeted at somebody that knows the perp intimately and can recognize specific characteristics. They then call investigators and say oh crap my uncle, brother, neighbor etc looks a bit like the BG sketch and he was in that area that day. The success rate of identifying a perp based on only a sketch are minimal at best.

 

[Spartygirl]

BG has got to be local (or semi-local) with def knowledge of the bridge area. No way did he just happen by. It interests me that the 4/22 presser was held at Wabash Erie Canal Center. I wonder why.

JMO but I think because it was a larger area to accommodate the public and press as it was an open presser.
(also JMO-- could be significant.)

 

[cujenn81]

Unfortunately sketches are often very unreliable. The fact that they are more often than not drawn off of peoples own fuzzy recollections often leaves them with having very general characteristics. The thing that often gets forgotten is that they aren't drawn for joe social media person to recognize them and match them up with a photo of someone they saw online. They are targeted at somebody that knows the perp intimately and can recognize specific characteristics. They then call investigators and say oh crap my uncle, brother, neighbor etc looks a bit like the BG sketch and he was in that area that day. The success rate of identifying a perp based on only a sketch are minimal at best.

This is a good point but something I've struggled to remember. Out of curiosity, I did a quick search looking for studies that show how often sketches lead to the solving of a crime. I couldn't find much of anything but did find this interesting Vox article: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/4/22/8467265/do-police-sketches-wor.

It includes a short video that explains how/why witnesses have a hard time recalling specific and individual features. It also talks about how LE is beginning to use computer programs to create the images. LE inputs basic info about the suspect (like race and an age range) based on the description given by the witness. Then the witness selects several faces (among many) that they think resembles the suspect the most. The computer then morphs the different faces into one image (which sounded a lot like the statement Carter made about how the suspect might be a combination of the two). If they used a similar program to create a second sketch, I hope they would say as much. Otherwise, it only confuses people.

 

[Spartygirl]

Ok I just watched the In Pursit episode and I can't help but be again, so totally upset by ISP Carter's statements about the killer being a combination of sketch 1 and 2.

"Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say"
"The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.
Now, that's no longer the case."...

..."While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."...

"The Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22," the release said."

I just don't understand the conflicting statements that ISP Carter has made. It truly baffles me as to why it continues without it being specifically explained, by him, as being a mistake was made and this is the correction. Isn't that what the whole releasing the second sketch was all about, righting a wrong? Apparently not in Carter's mind...why?
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say

Hmmm-- I thought Carter said that the perp is a COMBINATION of both sketches.
I watched it last night and that is what Carter said.

 

[Spartygirl]

I didn't know they hung around RL's place...wow.

"They" didn't hang around there. Not AG
Just GK and his dad knew RL and hung out there.

 

[Spartygirl]

Thanks. Hadn't heard that there was a possible connection between Nicole and Delphi.

And Ray Hanish murder.

 

[Falling Down]

The Walsh show was basically a re-hash of what we already know. The only new revelation for me was when Pettit from ISP mentioned Libby's phone was found on the ground near the girls' bodies.

 

[distracted]

Prior connection doesn’t necessarily require contact. Consider the Jayme Closs case.

And that case would still be unsolved, IMO, if she hadn't escaped.

 

[distracted]

Unfortunately sketches are often very unreliable. The fact that they are more often than not drawn off of peoples own fuzzy recollections often leaves them with having very general characteristics. (people generally think they have very precise recollections, but often they are inaccurate unless they are trained to retain specific things accurately). The thing that often gets forgotten is that they aren't drawn for joe social media person to recognize them and match them up with a photo of someone they saw online. They are targeted at somebody that knows the perp intimately and can recognize specific characteristics. They then call investigators and say oh crap my uncle, brother, neighbor etc looks a bit like the BG sketch and he was in that area that day. The success rate of identifying a perp based on only a sketch are minimal at best.

And then there are some sketches like the one of Jesse Matthews who killed Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington, that was a dead ringer of him - so much so that people had made offhand comments to him before he was arrested about how much he looked like the sketch.

That is why I can't dismiss a sketch. There have been others, too, that were incredible likenesses of the perpetrator, but you are right - most of them don't resemble the sketches at all.

It's honestly too bad they released either of the sketches, considering that they have him on video. IMO, the release of the sketches just created doubt in people's minds.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

"They" didn't hang around there. Not AG
Just GK and his dad knew RL and hung out there.

There is a Gray Hughes video about the connection with RL and GK but it is very long and I haven’t watched it. I believe AG herself is from Delphi. They are a badass couple and I hope they get life. Like I said..I have never heard LE suspects him but I think a lot of people really wonder about him.

 

[Dotrat]

[QUOTE="

It's honestly too bad they released either of the sketches, considering that they have him on video. IMO, the release of the sketches just created doubt in people's minds.[/QUOTE]
And you can't unring that bell. So what people have to work with is, look at the way he walks (shows 2 steps) listen to his voice(4 words), we need that 1 tip, that 1 missing piece! Beyond frustrating for those wanting to help get justice for the girls. I try to think what the girls families are feeling and I think it goes beyond words. I truly give them so much credit for keeping as composed as they are, I don't think I could do it. MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

And that case would still be unsolved, IMO, if she hadn't escaped.

I agree. I think LE in this case did a pretty good job, but I doubt they would have ever found her all things considered. Jayme saved herself.

The Delphi case. LE wants very badly to solve it but they have not done a good job evidenced by their confused talk about something as basic as a sketch three years out. The benefit of releasing information to the public is greatly diminished after all this time. And the girls’ families cannot save themselves. They are stuck in this morass. They are the victims here.

 

[minazoe]

I don't know exactly why, but I feel like something is coming soon, I hope it's an arrest and not another murder. I just had such a feeling..probably nothing..mOO

 

[JnRyan]

The Walsh show was basically a re-hash of what we already know. The only new revelation for me was when Pettit from ISP mentioned Libby's phone was found on the ground near the girls' bodies.

I thought the same thing and not a very good re-hash. We probably got more from "Scene of the Crime" and "Down the Hill" podcasts as well as other much shorter podcasts. But it does help keep the case up in front of the public and I guess I need to keep that in mind. Who knows what it could stir up.

 

[minazoe]

if you are reading this and you know him, turn the loser in.

mOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

if you are reading this and you know him, turn the loser in.

mOO

And someone does, and it is likely they are keeping up with the case on forums like this.

Don’t carry this heavy burden of knowledge. Call it in.
How will you feel when he strikes again, knowing your tip could have stopped it?

amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[Justice101]

And then there are some sketches like the one of Jesse Matthews who killed Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington, that was a dead ringer of him - so much so that people had made offhand comments to him before he was arrested about how much he looked like the sketch.

That is why I can't dismiss a sketch. There have been others, too, that were incredible likenesses of the perpetrator, but you are right - most of them don't resemble the sketches at all.

It's honestly too bad they released either of the sketches, considering that they have him on video. IMO, the release of the sketches just created doubt in people's minds.

Yes, and so much so on the Jesse Matthews case that his co-worker cab drivers laughed when he grew his hair long into dreadlocks saying to him, "Dude, are you trying not to look like the sketch of the dude that killed that girl?"

Little did they know, that Jesse was a Jekyll and Hyde and that their joke was actually correct.. and that they had jokingly identified the real killer.

 

[ab01]

I agree. I think LE in this case did a pretty good job, but I doubt they would have ever found her all things considered. Jayme saved herself.

The Delphi case. LE wants very badly to solve it but they have not done a good job evidenced by their confused talk about something as basic as a sketch three years out. The benefit of releasing information to the public is greatly diminished after all this time. And the girls’ families cannot save themselves. They are stuck in this morass. They are the victims here.

Yah IDK its easy to cast doubt at LE any time that significant time passes and a case remains unsolved. Of course if it truly was a stranger murder the evidence may be very minimal and highly complex. We also don't know how reliable witnesses were etc. Personally It appears to me that they have explored multiple avenues which tells me the initial evidence probably was in fact not very strong. The video and audio seemed significant, but only if somebody was able to recognize it and it appears either nobody has or they aren't coming forward. Also I believe that BG was most likely not somebody well known in the small community, either he is a recluse or somebody that lives far enough away that nobody was able to make a connection and identify him from the video audio and sketches. The witnesses obviously also weren't able to put a name to the face that they were describing to investigators. Additionally I think that what many see as LE sending confusing info about the sketches is them simply not knowing how accurate the sketches actually are. This case had multiple extremely skilled and well known agencies involved from day 1, I'm not so sure that it was a situation of confusing or overlooking things as much as there just wasn't even solid evidence to overlook. JMO

 

[Tricia]

WEBSLEUTHS LIVE YOUTUBE IS EARLY TONIGHT.
JOIN US AT 8:00 PM EASTERN AS WE WELCOME BECKY PATTY, LIBBY GERMAN'S GRANDMOTHER.
CLICK HERE AND JOIN US LIVE AT 8:00 PM EASTERN. YOU CAN POST YOUR QUESTIONS TO BECKY PATTY IN THE CHAT AND LISTEN LIVE AS SHE DISCUSSES THE HEARTWRENCHING CASE.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

JMO but I think because it was a larger area to accommodate the public and press as it was an open presser.
(also JMO-- could be significant.)

Guaranteed that was the reason. It was nothing except situational need. Canal Park and that interpretive center are perfect for group tours. It looked obvious that it is designed for school children to tour. Consequently there is tons more parking available there than anywhere else I saw in Delphi. It would dwarf the availability not too far away at the official buildings on Main Street downtown.