Found Deceased CO - Gannon Stauch, 11, Colorado Springs, El Paso County, 27 Jan 2020 **ARREST** #42

[jvikes]

The line for me was upon discovering that she refused to cooperate with investigators in the case of her missing, vulnerable, 11-year-old stepbrother.

I agree, and I think that was her conscience decision. Apparently CO LE are required to have a guardian present for questioning. I think if TS stepped in and stopped them it would have read differently in the AA because it would shine even more of a guilty light on TS. I think LE had their own interactions with HH that led them to believe she was uncooperative vs TS being a blocker.

MOO

 

[HundredAcreWood]

BBM:

Great questions!

The answers are somewhat subjective, but I'll give you my opinion.
I was willing to give HH the benefit of the doubt until I read the affidavit.

The line for me was upon discovering that she refused to cooperate with investigators in the case of her missing, vulnerable, 11-year-old stepbrother.
_______________________________

For me, there's the Red Line. HH crossed it.

The argument that "she's a minor" is not going to cut it for me. At all.

Moral development, i.e., knowing right from wrong, understanding the link between actions and consequences, empathy, etc., occurs prior to the age of 18. There's not a magic switch at 18, where, Voila! People reach an age of moral accountability.

If HH doesn't know the difference b/t right and wrong now, she likely never will.
I personally suspect she never will…or if she does, she'll disregard it, just as she disregarded it in this case.

Either wittingly or unwittingly, and, frankly, none of us knows which is the case, HH aided TS in cleaning up a crime scene by purchasing cleaning supplies for her, then taking LS out of the house while TS scrubbed TS's blood off of walls, floors, etc.

Do I think HH knew at the time she was purchasing supplies to help her mother clean up a bloody murder scene?
No.

Do I think HH now realizes she purchased supplies to help her mother clean up a bloody murder scene?
Heck, yeah.

She knows.

HH has lied to reporters for her mother.
Even little kids know lying is wrong.

The argument that, "Well, she probably believed her mother," is laughable to me.
Do people honestly think HH doesn't know that her mother is a consummate liar?
She knows her mother lies with practically every exhaled breath.

She also knows her mother did something bad to GS.
She made a decision not to cooperate with LE.

Which is to say, she made a decision not to help investigators find her missing 11-year-old stepbrother.

There's the Red Line.

JMO.

I am now also wondering if HH knew G was in the suitcase in the rental van on their way to Florida.

 

[jvikes]

For me it’s not a case of sympathizing with her upbringing, rather, it’s recognizing that LS and her kind use anyone and everyone and I’m sure that’s being sorted out.

Yep, for sure LS is the bigger monster - not sure I've seen anything like her before. Definitely something to take into consideration when looking at the actions of anyone she comes in contact with.

 

[Aloe]

For everyone considering HH's possible role in this, I respectfully ask you to consider the following:

Many WS members have shared their own painful experiences of growing up with a parent, generally a mother, who shares characteristics of LS. The gas lighting, the manipulation, the verbal abuse, the fear of doing something, anything, wrong. Some have shared that it took years to recognize and escape the behavior.

We know LS likes to hear herself talk. Copiously. Imagine what she has filled HH's head with all these years.

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that HH was not cooperative with LE. It's what's she's likely been trained to do her entire life, covering for and abetting her mom's crazy.

I hope she has found some good guidance, and I do believe she will share everything she knows and it will be damning. It may take a long time, or she may have known all along that her mom is a monster and she's ready to be done with her and free of her.

I am very uncomfortable with any "blame" or "fault" being laid at HH's feet, either knowledge she has and hasn't shared, or any participation she may have had in TS's attempt to cover up because it's not like she was raised by a normal functioning mom.

MOO

I agree with you. It may take some time for to decide she needs guidance, therapy and to share what she knows. If she is staying with other TS supporters it may take a long time.

 

[Cindizzi]

I think the surveillance video of LS returning home was recorded around 2pm, and LS alleged GS left to visit a friend around 4 pm. I assumed AS thought the lie was that GS did not come home with her and therefore he could not have gone to a friend's house-- so now I'm really confused..??!

I’m confused also ! Here’s an article with RD’s quote about what AS said upon viewing it.

The disappearance of Gannon Stauch: A timeline of the case

Feb. 4

A neighbor comes forward with surveillance footage that he says shows Letecia Stauch leaving the house with him and returning hours later alone.

Neighbor Roderrick Drayton told ABC News he decided to look through his footage once the search intensified and saw Stauch getting into a red pickup truck Monday morning at 10:13 a.m. The footage also appears to show Gannon walking slowly as he approaches and gets into the truck, according to Drayton.

When she returns in the truck at 2:19 p.m., Gannon is nowhere to be seen.

A spokeswoman for the sheriff's office told ABC News that investigators have a copy of the video and do not dispute Drayton's description.

"This is just one piece in a very, very, very large puzzle," spokeswoman Jackie Kirby told ABC News.
Drayton says he showed the security footage for Gannon’s father on Sunday.

"He just broke down crying and said, 'She lied. She lied about the time. He didn’t go to a friend's house,'" Drayton said.

 

[dmac55]

DBM

 

[AbigailHobbs]

I've read the affidavit 4 times, and all posts here since it was released.

I believe something violent happened Sunday, either triggered by or triggering the story of the burning incident.. she went through bouts of "fake searches" on her phone to try to add to the narrative later.

I still firmly believe she left Gannon's cell phone in the Petco as she drove around checking out spots for after dark. I also believe that once she retrieved his phone, she was the one who texted her husband about Zelda before checking out at the Petco. whatever happened after Sunday, LS didn't want Gannon to have contact with anyone.

just as the AA states I believe they got home from "the drive" and she killed him within a period of 25 mins (2:20 arrival, 2:45 unlocking her phone)

The fact that she sent Laina and Harley out of the house as they respectively came home, I've been able to come to terms with the fact she did have *some* time to clean and reset the room before LE showed up at 10pm (7 hours) she didn't know that she would have so much time, but I would think she made sure all visible blood (hallways, walls, sheets etc) was gone by the time she called police.

Whenever im cleaning a big mess and need lots of water etc, I go out of the back door where the hose is, I think its possible she went out the back door so often in order to rinse out brushes, rags, bucket etc instead of in a bathroom.

I also think its possible she left garbage bags of bloody evidence by the gate to bring out to Tiguan after dark, possibly leaving traces of blood in the backyard and gate area.

I personally think that when one is in CYA mode (and somewhat muscular) that it is completely doable to remove so much weight, especially dragging a suitcase. I think if its to save yourself, you will absolutely back every ounce of strength you have with will power.

I want to preface this by saying I am not positive I remember this correctly. I do think I remember dogs coming to the house. I think it was a photo on an article. I also think I remember an issue with the backyard, but it's not coming to a reliable memory. Something like the fire department was in the backyard? Search lights were in the backyard? Anyone know what Im talking about for both the backyard and dogs?

 

[Ninja Bunny]

For me, there's the Red Line. HH crossed it.

<snip for brevity>

She also knows her mother did something bad to GS.
She made a decision not to cooperate with LE.

Which is to say, she made a decision not to help investigators find her missing 11-year-old stepbrother.

There's my Red Line.

Agree 100%

She’s not an infant, at 17 her brain is long past developed enough to know right from wrong and to have empathy for a little boy she lived with for five years. LS is a kook who lies, but I think HH is the “golden child” in that dynamic, she’s the princess that can do no wrong in LS’s eyes, LS’s lies probably often benefitted her, and she was likely spoiled. Her upbringing under LS was probably a lot more cushy than Gannon’s.

I’m sure turning on her only living parent is hard, but so what? Life is hard and sometimes you have to do hard things. Her mother abused and brutally murdered a little boy, that’s horrendous and she knows that’s horrendous. If she’s since done the right thing and talked to investigators, good. If she’s still refusing to talk, then AFAIC she’s no better than her mother.

 

[AbigailHobbs]

^^sbm

I've replaced a lot of rental property carpets over the years and my experience is that stains down to the pad and concrete are typically the result of wet cleaning. I see the stains described in the AA more the result of LS taking carpet brushes and vinegar to the blood than blood actually pooling and penetrating the carpet to pad and concrete.

I think LS was wiping down the walls while HH and the younger child were shopping -- if not before.

I think LS probably cleaned any blood on the stairs and/or trail to the garage first before the police came by to take the report of GS a runaway.

Perhaps LS did in-fact leave blood on the bedroom carpet for hours since it would have been hidden from view unless the bed moved. MOO

Interesting. I didnt think about basically pouring the vinegar on. I was assuming she used the "carpet powder" and the brushes that were found in the dishwasher. I guess I dont know if she's referring to that scented carpet stuff you sprinkle before a vacuum or there is or used to be this powder by Resolve called Resolve Carpet Cleaner Powder and you basically rub it in with a brush let it sit, then vacuum up stains

 

[MassGuy]

Agree 100%

She’s not an infant, at 17 her brain is long past developed enough to know right from wrong and to have empathy for a little boy she lived with for five years. LS is a kook who lies, but I think HH is the “golden child” in that dynamic, she’s the princess that can do no wrong in LS’s eyes, LS’s lies probably often benefitted her, and she was likely spoiled. Her upbringing under LS was probably a lot more cushy than Gannon’s.

I’m sure turning on her only living parent is hard, but so what? Life is hard and sometimes you have to do hard things. Her mother abused and brutally murdered a little boy, that’s horrendous and she knows that’s horrendous. If she’s since done the right thing and talked to investigators, good. If she’s still refusing to talk, then AFAIC she’s no better than her mother.

Yeah. I can get past her potentially helping her mother, as there was certainly a hold there.

After the fact though, when the smoke cleared, it was her moral obligation to do the right thing. This was a helpless child, who was brutally murdered by a monster.

Once HH was safely away from TS and her influence, that was the time to speak up. If it hasn’t happened, then I expect it to. If it does not happen, then shame on her.

I can excuse some things, but not a failure to help bring justice to a grieving family, and a murdered child.

There are questions, and she has answers.

 

[sindydee]

Did we ever figure out who the guy driving the moving van was? Maybe Eduardo?

or maybe Quincy Brown? Mind you, he was busy just lying down in the middle of a road in wait, so maybe not.

 

[MadTing]

Has there been confirmation that the carpet was actually burned?

 

[lucidtx]

Has there been confirmation that the carpet was actually burned?

No, responding officers also noted that there was no burning smell in the home and no sign of any burnt or repaired carpet.

 

[MassGuy]

Has there been confirmation that the carpet was actually burned?

No, but it does seem likely.

The AA had Google searches she made in regards to the carpet being burned, as well as dealing with the smell (pg 22).

So I do think there was some sort of a fire.

 

[RaspberryMama]

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing you or people that have commented about HH's upbringing being a reason for not cooperating or having an unfailing allegiance to their parent. But, serious question from me is where is the the line? Because one reason I've flipped on feeling sorry for HH to being very suspicious is that this is a murder case of her step brother. I feel she should have been very open to relaying on the oddities of her mother's behavior to investigators prior to the arrest given what we read about her in the AA.

So where is that line - should people raised by a TS type person be treated differently if they actively participate in murdering someone with their mothers? Covering up murder? Participating in something not as bad as murder? Knowing info but not cooperating? Knowing nothing and not cooperating? Note I'm *NOT* saying HH is involved at all in the act of murder. Just wondering where she stops being a victim that doesn't deserve judgement of her behavior for people that sympathize with her upbringing.

I completely understand and sympathize with those that can compare their own upbringing with HH's, so please don't take this post as confrontational, I'm just genuinely curious of where the line is crossed from victim to willing participant. Regarding HH specifically, what would need to come out in this case to come to a mindset of "despite her upbringing she really isn't a victim here - should have known better and <fill_in_the_blanks_here> is inexcusable behavior."

I haven't caught up yet, and I'm sure someone has already answered you. However, I've been vocal about being sympathetic towards HH, so I'll give you my 2¢.

Personally I think when we are discussing a crime committed by any person of their own volition, we have to first think of justice for the victim and any other people affected by the crime. Thankfully we have laws that tell us which crimes we can objectively call worse than other crimes and we have a system that is set up to (theoretically) punish worse crimes with worse punishments. I'd go so far as to say *most* of us have an inborn moral code and there's a line we draw between what we can and can't do in good conscience.

So, for example, if I had murdered someone when I was a teenager, I would expect to face some serious consequences, regardless of my dysfunctional childhood.

But it's noteworthy that minors are, by law, usually treated differently - less harshly - than an adult guilty of the same sort of crime. Society knows and accepts, in general, that minors are not fully grown and don't have fully formed areas of the brain that control executive function.

(I'm pretty sure that last sentence is grammatically incorrect, but hopefully you get my gist.)

So, subjectively I can feel sympathy for someone and still objectively say they were wrong and should be held accountable. Sympathy can lead to compassion, in how a criminal is treated and/or perceived, while still saying the criminal is guilty.

So, this is getting long. In this particular case, I do not think HH participated in the murder of Gannon. If she struck him, cut him, shot him, then she should be held accountable for that. If, however, she knew some things that might have been incriminating for her mother, and could not bring herself to share info with LE, it is directly related to her mindset... namely a mindset that has been forged into her very being since before birth, by an evil person. And I'm positive that, in that position, I, having had a similar mother, would have believed her (incredible, fantastical, absolutely illogical) excuses 100% over my own understanding.

Storytime. Listen, at 26 I didn't invite certain relatives to my wedding because my mother was feuding with them. These are some of the nicest people! But showing her my loyalty, even without any idea of what wrongs they had done her, was of utmost importance. I didn't need to know the details; my heart simply broke for the pain they caused my poor victimized mother. And.... I felt loved when I told her they wouldn't be getting invitations. I was so trained - like a dog - to be unquestioningly loyal and obedient and blind - and all for a bit of affection - that I behaved like a b**** to these people who had done me no wrong.

Was I responsible for treating them badly? Hell, yes. I should have grown up a lot sooner and gotten my head out of my a$$. Can I still have sympathy for the poor girl who grew up with that sort of training? Sure. It helps me explain and understand... It helps me grow into a better person.

If HH's only crime is not cooperating fully with LE at first, I believe it's because she could not bring herself to disbelieve her mother. Where would she get the capability of making that stand? It would be like a stranger asking a loyal dog to attack his master while his master is feeding him a steak and rubbing his belly.

There's a difference between committing a crime oneself vs. believing a crime was committed by another and promptly taking that to authorities if you've never betrayed that person before. It's a gradual and slow process of realizing, and denying, and hoping and finally accepting. If LE handled it right, HH is now fully cooperating. But how they handled her is entirely dependent on understanding where she's coming from.

 

[Fireflize]

I recall that T stated in one of her interviews that she sent HH and LS to the dollar store on bikes. She said she even helped get the bikes out of the garage. That bought her more time to clean up.

 

[scapa]

Agree 100%

She’s not an infant, at 17 her brain is long past developed enough to know right from wrong and to have empathy for a little boy she lived with for five years. LS is a kook who lies, but I think HH is the “golden child” in that dynamic, she’s the princess that can do no wrong in LS’s eyes, LS’s lies probably often benefitted her, and she was likely spoiled. Her upbringing under LS was probably a lot more cushy than Gannon’s.

I’m sure turning on her only living parent is hard, but so what? Life is hard and sometimes you have to do hard things. Her mother abused and brutally murdered a little boy, that’s horrendous and she knows that’s horrendous. If she’s since done the right thing and talked to investigators, good. If she’s still refusing to talk, then AFAIC she’s no better than her mother.

Well, HH is better than her mother insofar as she hasn't, to our knowledge, actually done any of the horrific, murderous things we can be confident that her mother did. What her daily and overall experience was within the Stauch family isn't anything we're likely to have answers to anytime soon -- maybe she was indeed the "princess" or "golden child," maybe she bore the brunt of LS' wrath and was forced to function as her surrogate within the family economy, and of course LS' shadow economy of much-resented labour, blame and shame.

I guess that in the absence of evidence that points towards HH's complicity with her mother's crimes I don't get the seeming antagonism towards her, especially given the timing of the AA in relation to what we know now. It seems like classic guilt by association -- and the "Edguardo" nonsense detailed in the AA shows just how focused LS was on casting that guilt on anyone who wasn't her. I feel like including HH in this LS-sponsored narrative helps to give that particularly malignant strategy fresh legs. Anyway, time and doc dumps will tell, I suppose.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing you or people that have commented about HH's upbringing being a reason for not cooperating or having an unfailing allegiance to their parent. But, serious question from me is where is the the line? Because one reason I've flipped on feeling sorry for HH to being very suspicious is that this is a murder case of her step brother. I feel she should have been very open to relaying on the oddities of her mother's behavior to investigators prior to the arrest given what we read about her in the AA.

So where is that line - should people raised by a TS type person be treated differently if they actively participate in murdering someone with their mothers? Covering up murder? Participating in something not as bad as murder? Knowing info but not cooperating? Knowing nothing and not cooperating? Note I'm *NOT* saying HH is involved at all in the act of murder. Just wondering where she stops being a victim that doesn't deserve judgement of her behavior for people that sympathize with her upbringing.

I completely understand and sympathize with those that can compare their own upbringing with HH's, so please don't take this post as confrontational, I'm just genuinely curious of where the line is crossed from victim to willing participant. Regarding HH specifically, what would need to come out in this case to come to a mindset of "despite her upbringing she really isn't a victim here - should have known better and <fill_in_the_blanks_here> is inexcusable behavior."

Completely agree.
Everyone is a victim nowadays. Except that they really aren’t.
You said it so much better than I ever could.

 

[lucidtx]

No, but it does seem likely.

The AA had Google searches she made in regards to the carpet being burned, as well as dealing with the smell (pg 22).

So I do think there was some sort of a fire.

I have no idea what to make of her searches and stories about the burnt carpet, but I think it would've been mentioned in the AA if investigators had in fact found any evidence of the carpet in the home having been burnt or repaired. Something like that would have been difficult to totally conceal considering how thoroughly they checked the flooring throughout the house.


Edit: from page 20.

 

[Love Never Fails]

She is 17. The frontol lobes of the brain that govern reasoning and judgement are not full developed until the age of 21. Hence why you see so many teens do foolish things. She believed what her mother told her and likely her mother told her that people were trying to frame her. Remember in the early days of Gannon coming up missing, a lot of hate was already circulating online about LS and death threats were being made. HH likely seen this and believed her mother, fearing for her mothers safety. It is a difficult situation and one can not say without certainty if HH was duped by her mother and told not to cooperate because her words could be twisted or what. LE said at this point they do not believe she participated in any of this. So other than her not cooperating with investigators, likely due to being duped by LS, lets leave her out of this. At this point we just do not know and there is no reason to drag her down over something her mother did unless later facts prove otherwise.

So at what point do you hold a 17 year old accountable for their actions? This smacks of enabling them to do whatever they wish. No responsibilities for it. I disagree with you.