Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #38

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Amended Order to Seal in Chad's case is now available on-line and has some very specific language for a court order. JMO!

The Order states: "...based upon the finding of this Court that sealing the probable cause affidavit submitted with the complaint is necessary to prevent harm to any person or persons based upon the finding of this Court..." (emphasis added).
 

Attachments

  • 061020 - CD Fremont County - Amended Order to Seal.pdf
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Maybe yes, maybe no. With a background in news, I can say it is not uncommon for LE to call and ask for compromising info to be removed from stories. The particular media company will make the call. This happened to me on breaking news. I'd think the same for photos. JMO MOO

Just another input. In Hawaii it is a crime to display an image of bones (or to take a photograph). So national news outlets might have to be more careful. I'd post a link but struggling to find one.
 
I can't decide about LVD and CD and I keep changing my mind.

At one point, I thought CD was dominant, taking advantage of an gullible somewhat unstable woman who flattered his ego. Then I thought CD was a bit of a grifter, maybe a guy having a bit of a mid-life crisis, now that the kids were grown and his wife seemed to have a full life of her own. Suddenly he's got a hot blonde gushing groupie buying his nonsense.

But then I get hung up on the deaths. I'm still not at the point that I believe CD is a killer. LVD - I absolutely believe both she and AC, at her bidding, could and did take lives. I think CD was an after-the-fact clean-up man.

But I am not sure and may change my mind again.

Do folks here think they will stick together? Or will one try to throw the other under the bus?
I for one think Chad will cry like a baby and sing like a bird. Lori will continue to act like a nut case.
 
If this is maybe leading to the theory that perhaps the bodies of the children were stored for some time in the storage unit, I don’t think that’s plausible. Even if it was refrigerated, I have learned from other cases that the smell of decomposition is distinct, permeates, and does not go away. (Thinking of Casey Anthony’s trunk in particular) Jmo
I can attest to this. I has a baby wild pig die in some bushes near my front porch. The stench was intense and nauseating and it was hard to find because it was so overwhelming. Once I found it and scooped it up in a shovel and moved it to a far corner of the property the odor lingered for a couple of weeks just from what liquids were in the soil. I'm sure it is the same with humans.
 
This is a useless *advertiser censored* post but I still can’t wrap my head around such pure evil. IMO Tylee was killed because she wasn’t useful to them any longer, she’d given them what they needed. All the other people they wanted dead were dead and they were afraid she would sing.

JJ was collateral damage. I’m sorry to refer to him in such a manner, but this is criminal think.
 
There are so many variables in destroying a body by fire. That is why some murderers are sucessful in doing so, and others weren't.
I'm not posting any details because I don't want to facilitate anyone ever destroying a body. But I have professionally and routinely generated the temperatures needed using things that can be found around most houses. Blacksmiths and glassblowers do it everyday. It's really not that hard. But thankfully most criminals are too dumb to know how to do it.
 
Perhaps because Matt and his wife live in the Rexburg community they put out a separate statement. I think this is being over thought. I think it was a very heartfelt message from a family in the midst of deep grief.
I really think we all need to cut the family members some slack. I can't imagine any family member of mine doing anything like this and if they were accused I would defend them. But man, once bodies are found, I'd hang my head in disgust and join in the calls for hanging. All of these family members are dealing with something I hope none of us ever have to experience. Let's practice some human decency and leave them alone even if they lash out. I've seen nothing to suggest any of Chad's kids or their spouses are anything but maybe a little immature. They are under enormous stress right now and I think we should all show them some compassion.
 
You might have to go a bit later. See below. The neighbor said the first fire was AFTER Tammy died.
This comment was directed toward me...cool! The neighbor appears to be a willing stooge, for media. None of this is cool or ordinary, based on reports from unnamed media. Maybe EIN. I could use another media source, if it protects the children.
@WhereIsWaldo , help me out here. I don’t understand what you are saying.
1. The comment wasn’t directed to you, unless you are the neighbor.
2. Why would the neighbor be a willing “stooge”? It sounds to me like he wanted to be helpful, not a “stooge”.
3. Cool and ordinary? What does that mean? Who is unnamed media?
 
Also, is it common for a lawyer to just bow out if a client runs out of money?
I don't think a lawyer can bow out of a case because their client runs out of money. That's why lawyers typically ask for a large retainer fee upfront.
And the beach wedding was planned before Tammy's death. When were the clothes and rings ordered from Amazon on Charles Vallow's Amazon account? September?

Surprised LVD has not been charged with fraud for that.
They most likely had a joint account. It was her account after he died.
 
Also, is it common for a lawyer to just bow out if a client runs out of money?
I don't think a lawyer can bow out of a case because their client runs out of money. That's why lawyers typically ask for a large retainer fee upfront.
And the beach wedding was planned before Tammy's death. When were the clothes and rings ordered from Amazon on Charles Vallow's Amazon account? September?

Surprised LVD has not been charged with fraud for that.
They most likely had a joint account. It was her account after he died.
And think about the LDS afterlife. Even if they convince themselves that they are alright with God..in the afterlife.. Maybe best to let them stir in prison in this life for many many years.
I have no idea what the LDS afterlife prescribes. But I doubt it will be pleasant for Chad and Lori.
 
Not to bring up religion, however, would their stake? (sorry not LDS) put out some sort of statement on the children? Seems that would only be right considering how entrenched Chad was in their local church. JMO
I'm not LDS but I'll venture to say that these crimes have nothing to do with the LDS church. Would we expect a statement if they were Catholic? Lutheran? Baptist?
 
Straight from the mouth of Chad Daybell:

"Taking care of the graves is rewarding, as well as helping widows and grieving family members deal with the trauma," Daybell said.

"Sad times are always when you have to bury babies. That's always a poignant moment," Daybell said, leaning on a shovel amid the headstones in the Springville Cemetery where he worked until last year when he quit to write a book about his experiences.

"I couldn't really exaggerate or fabricate any of these stories, they're just too bizarre."

During his first week as a gravedigger, soon after a family buried a woman, they realized the woman was still wearing her wedding ring.

The young gravedigger, a newly returned LDS missionary at the time, found himself digging up the body.

"The mortician had to get down there, open the casket and pull the ring off her finger. That shook me up and gave me nightmares for a couple of weeks," he said.

Dealing with sometimes screaming, emotional people comes with the territory, Daybell said, but there times out in the cemetery that one gets an eerie sense that he's dealing with the dearly departed.

Halloween is a spooky time for most, and it can be downright scary for cemetery workers, Daybell said.

He said he was always on edge that night and would drive through the cemetery just to make sure everything was all right.

"I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in a cemetery," noting dryly that he fully expects to be back someday — on the other end of the shovel.

Quotes from an article in The Deseret News: Not all is grave for a sexton
 
Idaho - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC
What types of deaths are required to be investigated?
(1) When a county coroner is informed that a person has died, the

(a) The death occurred as a result of violence, whether apparently by homicide, suicide or by accident;

(b) The death occurred under suspicious or unknown circumstances

I can't find any law that states the family can legally request no autopsy. If anyone finds such a law will you please post it? Thank you
Seems to me the coroner had no requirement to investigate under law.
 
I don't think a lawyer can bow out of a case because their client runs out of money. That's why lawyers typically ask for a large retainer fee upfront.

A lawyer can end the relationship if a client runs out of money. If the retainer is depleted and the client has no cash or collateral to replenish it and the lawyer won’t work pro bono, that’s it. The private lawyer is done and the defendant is appointed a public defender.

Strange that they'd blur that but not the subject of the photographer's attention which is clearly identifiable...?

I’m surprised they didn’t blur out the plumber’s crack on that one guy bending over the fire pit.
 
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Idaho, the Insanity Defense, and the "Mens Rea" Defense

Prefaced by stating that [IANAL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IANAL)...this was just found in general research.

Idaho does not allow defendants to plead to an "insanity defense," per se.

>In 1982, the Idaho Legislature repealed Idaho's insanity defense statute and enacted a law that states that "mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct," but the court may consider expert evidence on "any state of mind which is an element of the offense."

But Idaho does have convoluted case law where a [defendant might seek a plea on the grounds that they claim they lacked criminal ***"mens rea" or "guilty mind"*** to have known right from wrong.\*](Insanity in the State of Idaho)

*(See the example of Idaho case law below that directly speaks to the "mens rea" defense.)*

>[\*Insanity defense not allowed in Idaho:](Insanity in the State of Idaho) *In 1982, the Idaho Legislature repealed Idaho's insanity defense statute and enacted aregard law that states that "mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct."*
>
>*Idaho law would distinguish the following two cases.*
>
>***Case One:*** *The defendant, due to insanity, believes that the victim is a wolf. He shoots and kills the victim.*
>
>***Case Two:*** *The defendant, due to insanity, believes that a wolf, a supernatural figure, has ordered him to kill the victim.*
>
>**In** ***Case One***\*, the defendant does not know he has killed a human being, and his insanity negates a mental element necessary to commit the crime.
>
>***In Case Two***\*, the defendant has intentionally killed a victim whom he knows is a human being; he possesses the necessary mens rea.
>
>*In both cases the defendant is unable, due to insanity, to appreciate the true quality of his act, and therefore unable to perceive that it is wrong.*
>
>*But in Idaho, the defendant in Case One could defend the charge by arguing that he lacked the mens rea, whereas the defendant in Case Two would not be able to raise a defense based on his mental illness.*
>
>***\[Delling v. Idaho, No. 11-1515 (U.S. Nov. 26, 2012) (Breyer, J., dissenting)\]***

The example in Case One specifically addresses the Idaho law concerning a defendant who commits a murder while operating under the delusion that the murder victim is a not a human being.

In Case Two the defendant believes a *supernatural being ordered* them to murder the victim.

**In Case One**, the Idaho defendant could offer a plea under "mens rea," e.g., they didn't have "guilty knowledge" as they didn't believe their victim was a human being. If the defendant believes the victim was not a human being, i.e. their victim was a "zombie," and there being no law defining actions against a supernatural being, the defendant has no "mens rea," i.e., no "guilty knowledge" of having killed a person.

**In Case Two**, if a defendant believes a supernatural being *ordered* the murder, and they know their victim was a human being, it establishes that the defendant knows that murder of a human being is wrong, and they cannot plead they didn't have "guilty knowledge" when killing their victim.

It seems from this, that according to the Idaho "mens rea" case law, it may be possible that if Lori Vallow Daybell is charged with murder, she could plead that she didn't believe she was involved with the murder of a human being but had conspired to take action against a supernatural being (i.e., a zombie) and therefore has no "guilty knowledge" of having killed a person.

It's also possible that Chad Daybell and Lori might at some time offer a "blame Alex" defense in regards to any 1st-degree murder charges.

If this doesn't look promising they might both go to a "[cut-throat defense](https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095655333)\*" where as co-defendants they point the finger at each other for all other attendant conspiracy and accessory charges.

When more evidence is brought forth from the galaxy of possible co-defendants and witnesses in this case, it may become increasingly difficult for either Chad or Lori to deny they had prior or post knowledge of one or many of the murders that occured in their orbit.

Considering all the state lines crisscrossed by these cult members while committing criminal acts, and with the involvement of the FBI, even if Chad and Lori have luck with state charges, they still might face federal charges.

If there are any lawyers with knowledge of Idaho case law that could chime in with clarification, it would be most welcome.

-------------------------------------------------------

>***\*\*Cut-throat Defense***\*: A defense in criminal proceedings where a defendant gives evidence on his own behalf, thereby strengthening the prosecution case against his co‐defendant.\*

Quoted from: Reddit r/Lori Vallow u/Dunbegan
Idaho, the Insanity Defense, and the "Mens Rea" Defense : LoriVallow
 
I think the bonfires subject might be a red herring. Maybe not, but so much of this is conjecture.
I agree. Nate Eaton said this on the day the kids were found:

"I’ll never forget what a law enforcement source told me early this morning - before any news broke: “Nate, today will be a wonderful, sad day for so many.”

That's a lot of confidence and quite a definitive statement to make to a reporter. Something more than bonfires led them to have that degree of confidence.
 
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