Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[indicolite22]

Neither AC nor ZP were typical Mormons at all, and in fact while AC may have been somewhat involved with the LDS church growing up, he was not going to church or involved at the time of all this, neither was ZP. Yes, very normal for Mormons to wear rings. MOO

MG said that she met ZP through church, so it looks like ZP did go to church. IMO ZP is also in the photo taken in November 2018 in Lori's kitchen with Chad, Lori, MG and a couple of other women.

 

[vislaw]

No disrespect taken.
I get what your saying but if they had enough evidence to go to hawaii and search them there why is it unreasonable to think they had sufficent evidence to search their other properties as well?

Appreciate the chance to discuss this. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying you have to have some basis beyond suspicion to get a warrant. Having missing children will always be sufficient basis to search a dwelling. It requires more, though, to get a warrant to search underground. Maybe this will make my point more clear. Here's a hypothetical conversation that might have taken place last December:

Q. Your honor, these kids are missing and we would like to search Chad and Lori's houses and homes for any sign of the kids.
A. That's reasonable. I'll sign a warrant and let you look in every room, attic and cupboard for signs of those kids.
Q. And we don't know yet that they are dead and, if so, where they are. But we'd like to bring some cadaver dogs on every property and sniff around and dig if we get a hit.
A. Sorry, that's just way too broad under constitutional grounds. You'll have to give me more reason to believe the children are buried at a particular place before I can approve that.
​

Every search warrant has to be reasonable and based on probability of finding something. Looking for the kids and/or any of their belongings inside any home or dwelling occupied by Chad/Lori would support a search warrant in any jurisdiction. I just don't think they had enough to sustain an underground search until they got the cell data.

 

[Michael0808]

MG said that she met ZP through church. IMO ZP is also in the photo taken in November 2018 in Lori's kitchen with Chad, Lori, MG and a couple of other women.

Could “through church” be through them and not necessarily mean participating in or attending services?
I mean honestly in my opinion, these people were creating a perverse version of LDS, and none of them were participating in the church at all. Jmo

 

[Michael0808]

Appreciate the chance to discuss this. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying you have to have some basis beyond suspicion to get a warrant. Having missing children will always be sufficient basis to search a dwelling. It requires more, though, to get a warrant to search underground. Maybe this will make my point more clear. Here's a hypothetical conversation that might have taken place last December:

Q. Your honor, these kids are missing and we would like to search Chad and Lori's houses and homes for any sign of the kids.
A. That's reasonable. I'll sign a warrant and let you look in every room, attic and cupboard for signs of those kids.
Q. And we don't know yet that they are dead and, if so, where they are. But we'd like to bring some cadaver dogs on every property and sniff around and dig if we get a hit.
A. Sorry, that's just way too broad under constitutional grounds. You'll have to give me more reason to believe the children are buried at a particular place before I can approve that.
​

Every search warrant has to be reasonable and based on probability of finding something. Looking for the kids and/or any of their belongings inside any home or dwelling occupied by Chad/Lori would support a search warrant in any jurisdiction. I just don't think they had enough to sustain an underground search until they got the cell data.

Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you!

 

[Redvines86]

MG said that she met ZP through church. IMO ZP is also in the photo taken in November 2018 in Lori's kitchen with Chad, Lori, MG and a couple of other women.

I think MG really meant Chad's group, not a typical LDS ward. Zulema's occupation would have been very strange for a typical LDS woman. As well as lots of other things about her. I also believe MG's statements about as much as Lori's or Chad's. I definitely think those women in the photo were from Chad's group, not ladies from the wards relief society. MO

 

[Redvines86]

Could “through church” be through them and not necessarily mean participating in or attending services?
I mean honestly in my opinion, these people were creating a perverse version of LDS, and none of them were participating in the church at all. Jmo

Absolutely. MOO

 

[indicolite22]

No disrespect taken.
I get what your saying but if they had enough evidence to go to hawaii and search them there why is it unreasonable to think they had sufficent evidence to search their other properties as well?

We now know some of that evidence: 1) Alex's phone pings in Chad's backyard around days the kids were last seen, 2) Chad's texts to Tammy about a bonfire and burying a raccoon in the pet cemetery, and 3) Tammy's sister's info on the pet cemetery location. It's unclear when Alex's phone info was obtained, but the rest only came to light in early June. Would the phone pings have been sufficient for a search warrant?

 

[gumchew]

One way I think we can get around someone snitching on someone buying drugs/poison for all these deaths is AC was a truck driver, I have retired from the Transportation Industry and can tell you any driver, anytime,any place can get anything they want.
And when it come to fentanyl it comes in many different forms. pills that can be crushed into a powder and filled into empty capsules to look like a regular pill. they sell it as a lollipop for cancer patients and that can be scraped off to also be easily put into foods or drinks and I doubt would have a terrible taste, patches, cooked like heroin and put into a needle for injection (once someone is asleep just shoot them up and that's it) I am interested to know if there were ever any injection spots found in Tammys skin. If you are getting one of these forms of fentanyl it is unlikely that you would have to worry about other buffer drugs being involved that could show up on a Tox screen. And then there is certfentyl the kind used by vets to put large animals down it takes almost none of that to kill several people.
I am not saying that this is what was used, but I can say it would have been a very easy drug to get and use, the fact that it was said she woke up and coughed then fell out of bed onto the floor and died with pink foam coming out of her mouth lends me to believe that opiates of some nature were involved and I don't see lazy AC,CD or LV wanting to give any of these people any drug that would take numerous applications to get the job done, they seem like one and done killers to me. I would love to know the state of rigamortis that Tammy was in that morning as well as where her blood had pooled at on her body. Knowing they did not do an autopsy is one thing but there should have been a tox screen regardless most insurance companies would require at least that. I am in no way saying this for sympathy but this is a subject that unfortunately I know all to well as this is how my only child died in 2017 and at the time were unsure if this was a self given shot or someone else was involved (my daughter did struggle with substance abuse). In order for me to wrap my head around her death I was able to obtain her death scene photos and I can say that the description of how Tammy died sounds exactly like what I have seen with my own two eyes and when I saw the amount of drugs that were still in the needle it was alarming it looked like none of it had been used and she had 9000 nanograms per miloleter of pure fentanyl in her system. No other drugs were in her system coughing when you have a large amount of opiates on board is not uncommon as they are know to slow respiration. I would also like to know if she coughed up blood at that time.
This lesson I was forced to learn on this subject has been the hardest one I have ever learned but I feel it also gives me an insight that I pray none of you have had to learn or will need to learn. If anyone has any detailed questions on this subject please feel free to message me directly.

I'm glad you agree about truckers having access to drugs. I talked about this elsewhere and I think maybe this was news to some folks, but there is a lot of shady crap that happens along trucking routes, and even those who don't participate in it will still be aware of it.

It is still not clear whether she had a coughing fit before bed... went to sleep... woke up suddenly and fell out of bed, or if all those things happened at once in the middle of the night. Or if she even fell out of bed. We've heard all three versions second-hand, I think.

I really do hope the responding police took photos and noted their observations on rigor and lividity, etc at the scene, but given what we know about other procedural decisions, I wouldn't count on it.

 

[A2FMNST]

Thank you! I am going back to reread now. I’ve kind of been stuck on poison, probably because I wanted to somewhat imagine it as nonviolent so to speak. But I’m starting to explore other options.

I don’t think it has to be one (poison) OR the other (suffocation).

It could very well be both.

Summer 2019 -

AC kills CV using a gun. Up close and personal. Easy to aim and hit someone who is within feet of you. Bloody and violent.

Early September 2019 -

At this point AC, traumatized by CVs shooting and the thought of murdering his niece/nephew that he loves, insists on a way to let them slip peacefully behind the veil.

They need AC to do their dirty work so they find an alternative.

They (AC, LD, CD) knock out Tylee with drugs because she is a formidable opponent strength/weight wise (not meant in negative way) and intellectually knew right from wrong. Tylee potentially knows way too much about their “mission” and CVs death.

Following the Yellowstone visit, she is poisoned (Risperidone, other antipsychotics, etc.) and slips into a sedated state. JJ believes she is “sleeping” after a day of hiking around the park.

AC and CD take Tylee to CDs house. LV insists that they only way to truly kill a “zombie” is to damage the brain. CD shoots her in the head (shooting the “raccoon”) before burning then burying her.

Later in September 2019 - They knock JJ out with the same tranquilizers then suffocate him. Evidenced by AC carrying JJ back to LVs apartment “sleeping” (MG).

Early October -

AC allegedly tries to shoot BB. He misses/fails.

Did he choke, traumatized by the killing of CV, Tylee, and JJ? Was he inexperienced at shooting and aiming in more difficult situations (outdoors, moving target, dark outside, etc.)?

LV/CD are pissed that AC “failed” and warn him that next time he better finish the job successfully. Tylees Jeep is spotted and could compromise the mission if it could be linked back to CV/LV.

Privately LV/CD commit to killing AC after TD is dead because he is becoming a liability.

Later October -

AC allegedly tries to shoot TD and misses. AC tells LV/CD he is done, no more killing, he can’t do it.

LV/CD promise AC a wife, exaltation, etc. to keep him quiet.

LV/CD are furious! AC was supposed to get TD “out of the way” so they can finally be couple and carry out their “mission”.

CD has to take matters into his own hands. How can he kill TD without being detected?

MOO = tranquilizers/poison. TD will simply “fall asleep” and never wake up.

AC gets his new wife as promised but “conveniently” dies two weeks later.

All MOO of course!

 

[gumchew]

We now know some of that evidence: 1) Alex's phone pings in Chad's backyard around the days the kids were last seen, 2) Chad's texts to Tammy about a bonfire and burying a raccoon in the pet cemetery, and 3) Tammy's sister's info on the pet cemetery location. It's unclear when Alex's phone info was obtained, but the rest only came to light in early June. Would the phone pings have been sufficient for a search warrant?

I believe @vislaw said he found it likely that Alex's phone info was only found (or correlated) right before the search, since that was the key element of the APC indicating specific positions in the back yard.

 

[Redvines86]

I'm glad you agree about truckers having access to drugs. I talked about this elsewhere and I think maybe this was news to some folks, but there is a lot of shady crap that happens along trucking routes, and even those who don't participate in it will still be aware of it.

It is still not clear whether she had a coughing fit before bed... went to sleep... woke up suddenly and fell out of bed, or if all those things happened at once in the middle of the night. Or if she even fell out of bed. We've heard all three versions second-hand, I think.

I really do hope the responding police took photos and noted their observations on rigor and lividity, etc at the scene, but given what we know about other procedural decisions, I wouldn't count on it.

Sadly, I don't think we will ever know anything about Tammy's death besides what we get in the autopsy. Chad's version is completely untrustworthy, and I don't think anything official happened,. MOO

 

[Michael0808]

I don’t think it has to be one (poison) OR the other (suffocation).

It could very well be both.

Summer 2019 -

AC kills CV using a gun. Up close and personal. Easy to aim and hit someone who is within feet of you. Bloody and violent.

Early September 2019 -

At this point AC, traumatized by CVs shooting and the thought of murdering his niece/nephew that he loves, insists on a way to let them slip peacefully behind the veil.

They need AC to do their dirty work so they find an alternative.

They (AC, LD, CD) knock out Tylee with drugs because she is a formidable opponent strength/weight wise (not meant in negative way) and intellectually knew right from wrong. Tylee potentially knows way too much about their “mission” and CVs death.

Following the Yellowstone visit, she is poisoned (Risperidone, other antipsychotics, etc.) and slips into a sedated state. JJ believes she is “sleeping” after a day of hiking around the park.

AC and CD take Tylee to CDs house. LV insists that they only way to truly kill a “zombie” is to damage the brain. CD shoots her in the head (shooting the “raccoon”) before burning then burying her.

Later in September 2019 - They knock JJ out with the same tranquilizers then suffocate him. Evidenced by AC carrying JJ back to LVs apartment “sleeping” (MG).

Early October -

AC allegedly tries to shoot BB. He misses/fails.

Did he choke, traumatized by the killing of CV, Tylee, and JJ? Was he inexperienced at shooting and aiming in more difficult situations (outdoors, moving target, dark outside, etc.)?

LV/CD are pissed that AC “failed” and warn him that next time he better finish the job successfully. Tylees Jeep is spotted and could compromise the mission if it could be linked back to CV/LV.

Privately LV/CD commit to killing AC after TD is dead because he is becoming a liability.

Later October -

AC allegedly tries to shoot TD and misses. AC tells LV/CD he is done, no more killing, he can’t do it.

LV/CD promise AC a wife, exaltation, etc. to keep him quiet.

LV/CD are furious! AC was supposed to get TD “out of the way” so they can finally be couple and carry out their “mission”.

CD has to take matters into his own hands. How can he kill TD without being detected?

MOO = tranquilizers/poison. TD will simply “fall asleep” and never wake up.

AC gets his new wife as promised but “conveniently” dies two weeks later.

All MOO of course!

I like these theories, great post imo! One question, do you have a theory about dismemberment?

 

[indicolite22]

I think MG really meant Chad's group, not a typical LDS ward. Zulema's occupation would have been very strange for a typical LDS woman. As well as lots of other things about her. I also believe MG's statements about as much as Lori's or Chad's. I definitely think those women in the photo were from Chad's group, not ladies from the wards relief society. MO

I don't think MG would have called Chad's group church. If ZP didn't have an LDS background, I don't think she would have joined Chad. Incidentally, MG also met Lori in a church setting. Of course people like Chad and ZP didn't advertize their other potentially incompatible spiritual/religious activities in church. MOO

 

[montegrl]

Neither AC nor ZP were typical Mormons at all, and in fact while AC may have been somewhat involved with the LDS church growing up, he was not going to church or involved at the time of all this, neither was ZP. Yes, very normal for Mormons to wear rings. MOO

Since we are discussing rings and this has been bothering me, there are some photos released by the media where it appears CD was not wearing a ring while married to TD. Does anyone know if this was typical or not?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

S

Does anybody know or can anybody find out info for who operated the drone that captured the high quality imagery of the scene? I've been unable to determine if it was a freelancer or an agency or media company. I'd very much like to reach out to them if I can find them.

@SleuthD had a neighbor or friend with a drone... drone folks get to know drone folks....maybe she can help you track down.

 

[Redvines86]

I don't think MG would have called Chad's group church. If ZP didn't have an LDS background, I don't think she would have joined Chad. Incidentally, MG also met Lori in a church setting. Of course people like Chad and ZP didn't advertize their other potentially incompatible spiritual/religious activities in church. MOO

I think MG hadn't been going to a typical LDS ward for a while either, between her divorce in June and getting a cult boyfriend, and ZP marrying AC In Vegas, I think they did think of Chad's group, and the groups that cannot be named, as church. MOO

 

[Michael0808]

Since we are discussing rings and this has been bothering me, there are some photos released by the media where it appears CD was not wearing a ring while married to TD. Does anyone know if this was typical or not?

Not sure who the other men are in the pic, but it looks like at least one other isn’t either. Trying to find the pics from Hawaii to see if CD was wearing a ring with TVD...
ETA I know that the rings were purchased on the Amazon account. Just trying to see if he was wearing it

 

[gumchew]

GRAPHIC WARNING
That is one possibility. The affidavit states (in para 32 &33) that the round object had black plastic and then they cut it open and there was a layer of white plastic around it. The next paragraph does not specify that it was cut open and if anything was under the layer of black plastic wrapped in duct tape. So it is unclear whether there was a layer of white plastic there as well or if only the head had a layer of white plastic. NE has stated he was groggy during this interview and there is one instance where he has stated he misspoke. We have discussed multiple options here but I don't think we have enough facts yet to determine what is going on. Great question! MOO

I love Nate Eaton but personally I would only rely upon what is written in the APC until other official info is made available.

 

[Redvines86]

Since we are discussing rings and this has been bothering me, there are some photos released by the media where it appears CD was not wearing a ring while married to TD. Does anyone know if this was typical or not?

Maybe Chad's fingers were too fat for a ring? But probably as he was on the lookout for new chicks, he wouldn't be wearing a ring. MOO

 

[wenwe4]

An autopsy would not show drug use, but fluids from the body would be used to do a Toxicology report in what was in Tammys System at the time of her death I understand (Don't agree) with why there was no autopsy but I cant wrap my head around there not being any toxicology done if that is the case. I know if you have root head hair it can also be tested for drugs and poison but I am unsure if during the embalming process that would effect the root of any hair.
I do think needle marks can be found easily I recall that when Anna Nichole Smith died they were able to say she had injection marks from a B-12 shot she had gotten. I cant imagine by the time LE exhumed Tammy that they would not have suspected poison or drugging so for that reason I do think they would have checked her over for injection marks. Again it is hard to say what we will find out when more info is released but this in no way sounds like a natural death to me it sounds like anything but.
I am not saying that AC was poisoned with fentanyl but that he would have had an easy way to get it do it could be used on Tammy. AC autopsy is a whole nother ball of thread to be unwound. I don't think his death was natural either but I haven't dug into that one much yet.

BBM
You do not have to have the root nor does it have to be head hair. Hair testing for drugs can go back 9 months (maybe more) and the drugs actually grow out with the hair as it grows. They can test segments of hair (ie: 1/4" - 1/2" at a time to see what substances this person ingested at approximately what period of time). I knew a man who was smoking pot and went in for his physical to get his CDL, so he shaved all facial hair. The tester laughed and took hair from his chest. Any hair can be tested and if someone goes in for hair testing they do not pull or yank head hairs to get the root - they just cut it close to the scalp usually in the back or under other hair to cover the spot.

This does bring up a really good point though - LEO can test head hair on the children & TD for toxins, drugs, etc.