Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

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Ruthbullock said:
You seem to be pushing the point she was dead but she wasn’t in-situ or the search party are lying and they didn’t search there that day- which are theories that would support the parents argument, so I think they would be screaming at their lawyer to highlight that point in the inquest.
ETA the article you just shared claims she survived six days- that also takes us past the last day of the search in that area. It’s like that brain teaser where you lose a day in the middle- but it’s not really as most people count the sunlight hours as a day and if you were somewhere from lunchtime Saturday to lunchtime Sunday it would be a two day holiday, not out for the day.
Click to expand...
lunchtime Saturday to lunchtime Sunday is a day. A day is 24hrs.
It does not change the fact that the Malaysian pathologist stated under oath that Nora had died 4 days prior to her discovery.
 
kittythehare said:
lunchtime Saturday to lunchtime Sunday is a day. A day is 24hrs.
It does not change the fact that the Malaysian pathologist stated under oath that Nora had died 4 days prior to her discovery.
Click to expand...
It all depends on whether you count days from day one or day zero. We could debate this for days ourselves, but unless they specify an actual date of death we won’t resolve this at all...
 
I may be adding fuel to this fire but I think we should keep in mind that forensics is not an exact science. In temperate climates, corpses finally cease all rigor etc and begin the actual decomposition process at around 48 hours - I can only assume this would be faster in a tropical climate if anything. I hate to delve into the gruesome but I believe that in this case the determination of the post mortem interval was probably done via forensic etymology. This pre-supposes that the remains were exposed to insects immediately upon death. Otherwise, this method of determining date of death would erroneously indicate the time at which she was first exposed - like, for example, if her body had been kept indoors and washed until a convenient time like when the shamans had foretold that she would be found and immediately after the searchers had left the area where she was to be placed.
 
Sarahlou said:
The day after it happened. The 12th was when the Shamans were in the forest. You can see the dates on the photos that were taken of them on Getty Images
Click to expand...
do you have a link please?
Shamans were in the forest for several days is my understanding, not that it's particularly relevant.
 
So I have watched the video 24th August and pulled out what I could understand. I could infer more, but have tried so hard not to. Here are my notes:
Introduction video : 5 questions who, when, where and what manner, also is anyone criminally responsible for death.
24th August: Policeman first ( couldn't gleam anything there)
Hanimam (daughter of owners of Dusun as witness)
Looked at Sora house photos and discussed partially in english.
3.30 talk about photos being different/confusing
3:38 show pictures of floorplan of sora and link to photos in evidence
3:38:40 family were having bbq on open balcony, went and complained lock was broke. judge says its an open concept villa.
5.42.30 asked when last time you checked windows months, weeks before? answer not in english- she answers later on that she can't remember.
5.44 the lock was broken, but lots of people had slept in the house
then discussed shower- only one, but two toilets ( floor plan still being shown)
glass sliding door on master bedroom
5.52.59
mother of witness spoke to Noras parents. Witness spoke to father to get passport and spoke to mother whilst father went to police station.
No CCTV on site
Witness has been involved 10 years in resort ( since beginning)
That night all gates to resort were locked.
Autogate ( main entrance) all staff, family and a taxi driver have a remote for it ( it was locked the following day) Taxi driver only really k for them, only person they call for taxis. Hes a private taxi guy but does a lot of work for Dusun.
Ei02i photo of rear gate by Sora house- it was also locked that night.
1st 10 acres of resort are fully fenced, second area of plantation not fenced - its in planning they cant fence it in (thats the are where Sora house is)
Back to window latch, they tried to replace it, but couldnt so no latch. No other guests had complained.
6.02.23 6 months before something someone size of elephant had been seen passing Sora house_ i struggled to understand this bit.
6.04 photos of witnesses mercedes car are shown- Nora lawyer implies other cars couldnt be identified. Judge slowly goes through approx 10 photos, most she confirmed were her car with child seat in, about 4 she couldnt confirm.
6.10.20 the doors and wondows of the buildings in the resort are salvaged and recycled from other buildings as part of eco promise. bathrooms have a lock where you pres to lock/ turn to open and it clicks. What about the sliding door, can you hear it? no, i would have to guess.
questions about lights- there are lights on all the pathways, houses are also lit, no light away from the pathways.
6.13.42
Talking about stairs and nature- the concept is the houses are open to the views and you feel the fresh air. No air con, enjoy the humid views. No TV, its an eco resort with no air con.
questioned by noras lawyer- is that what your adverts show? yes we are as clear as possible especially with people who book an open plan villa. ( Booking.com must be the site used as she refers to their adverts on their) It states clearly and is 1st in the FAQs. We have 12 acres and 20 guests, no service during your stay.
Asked of any incidents of theft etc- one of phone, but it was 6 months after stay and he threatedned to give a bad review if they didnt get him a new phone, they ignored him, no review.
Asked about the front door
It’s a door knob where you press to lock turn to open could easily be opened by a young child. Very narrow staircase 1 person at a time and no good if you are tall- as a female adult she can’t stand up
 
Ruthbullock said:
So I have watched the video 24th August and pulled out what I could understand. I could infer more, but have tried so hard not to. Here are my notes:
Introduction video : 5 questions who, when, where and what manner, also is anyone criminally responsible for death.
24th August: Policeman first ( couldn't gleam anything there)
Hanimam (daughter of owners of Dusun as witness)
Looked at Sora house photos and discussed partially in english.
3.30 talk about photos being different/confusing
3:38 show pictures of floorplan of sora and link to photos in evidence
3:38:40 family were having bbq on open balcony, went and complained lock was broke. judge says its an open concept villa.
5.42.30 asked when last time you checked windows months, weeks before? answer not in english- she answers later on that she can't remember.
5.44 the lock was broken, but lots of people had slept in the house
then discussed shower- only one, but two toilets ( floor plan still being shown)
glass sliding door on master bedroom
5.52.59
mother of witness spoke to Noras parents. Witness spoke to father to get passport and spoke to mother whilst father went to police station.
No CCTV on site
Witness has been involved 10 years in resort ( since beginning)
That night all gates to resort were locked.
Autogate ( main entrance) all staff, family and a taxi driver have a remote for it ( it was locked the following day) Taxi driver only really k for them, only person they call for taxis. Hes a private taxi guy but does a lot of work for Dusun.
Ei02i photo of rear gate by Sora house- it was also locked that night.
1st 10 acres of resort are fully fenced, second area of plantation not fenced - its in planning they cant fence it in (thats the are where Sora house is)
Back to window latch, they tried to replace it, but couldnt so no latch. No other guests had complained.
6.02.23 6 months before something someone size of elephant had been seen passing Sora house_ i struggled to understand this bit.
6.04 photos of witnesses mercedes car are shown- Nora lawyer implies other cars couldnt be identified. Judge slowly goes through approx 10 photos, most she confirmed were her car with child seat in, about 4 she couldnt confirm.
6.10.20 the doors and wondows of the buildings in the resort are salvaged and recycled from other buildings as part of eco promise. bathrooms have a lock where you pres to lock/ turn to open and it clicks. What about the sliding door, can you hear it? no, i would have to guess.
questions about lights- there are lights on all the pathways, houses are also lit, no light away from the pathways.
6.13.42
Talking about stairs and nature- the concept is the houses are open to the views and you feel the fresh air. No air con, enjoy the humid views. No TV, its an eco resort with no air con.
questioned by noras lawyer- is that what your adverts show? yes we are as clear as possible especially with people who book an open plan villa. ( Booking.com must be the site used as she refers to their adverts on their) It states clearly and is 1st in the FAQs. We have 12 acres and 20 guests, no service during your stay.
Asked of any incidents of theft etc- one of phone, but it was 6 months after stay and he threatedned to give a bad review if they didnt get him a new phone, they ignored him, no review.
Asked about the front door
It’s a door knob where you press to lock turn to open could easily be opened by a young child. Very narrow staircase 1 person at a time and no good if you are tall- as a female adult she can’t stand up
Click to expand...

This is really helpful, thanks!

I remember reading online information and reviews while Nora was still missing that were really clear about the openness and being in nature. It stuck with me as I really hate bugs and many reviews mentioned that the openness meant bugs and creatures would always come in, especially at night. I also remember thinking that I wouldn’t stay anywhere I couldn’t lock up at night, regardless of whether children were with me. So an usual choice with children, even if without learning difficulties. IMO
 
kittythehare said:
do you have a link please?
Shamans were in the forest for several days is my understanding, not that it's particularly relevant.
Click to expand...
The Shaman performed the ritual on the 12th, the night before Nora's body was found. It was reported on that day. He said that she had been taken by a spirit (as a stepchild) in the form of an animal or human. He asked the spirit to return her but said he would ask for something in exchange. He said that would be between the two of them.

The following day is when her body was found.
 
Last edited:
Chiatos said:
It was not of the same content. The Australian source specified the day of the week that the Shamans were present, being Monday.

I have been following the disappearance of Nora from the start and I vividly remember the day the Shamans performed their ritual.
Also that the day after, Nora's body was found. And I thought by myself: how convenient and what a coincidence.

That was a year ago, you can read back in the forum when the Shaman appeared and that Nora's body was found the next day.
Click to expand...

Yes it seemed so staged to me. JMO MOO
 
Ruthbullock said:
So I have watched the video 24th August and pulled out what I could understand. I could infer more, but have tried so hard not to. Here are my notes:
Introduction video : 5 questions who, when, where and what manner, also is anyone criminally responsible for death.
24th August: Policeman first ( couldn't gleam anything there)
Hanimam (daughter of owners of Dusun as witness)
Looked at Sora house photos and discussed partially in english.
3.30 talk about photos being different/confusing
3:38 show pictures of floorplan of sora and link to photos in evidence
3:38:40 family were having bbq on open balcony, went and complained lock was broke. judge says its an open concept villa.
5.42.30 asked when last time you checked windows months, weeks before? answer not in english- she answers later on that she can't remember.
5.44 the lock was broken, but lots of people had slept in the house
then discussed shower- only one, but two toilets ( floor plan still being shown)
glass sliding door on master bedroom
5.52.59
mother of witness spoke to Noras parents. Witness spoke to father to get passport and spoke to mother whilst father went to police station.
No CCTV on site
Witness has been involved 10 years in resort ( since beginning)
That night all gates to resort were locked.
Autogate ( main entrance) all staff, family and a taxi driver have a remote for it ( it was locked the following day) Taxi driver only really k for them, only person they call for taxis. Hes a private taxi guy but does a lot of work for Dusun.
Ei02i photo of rear gate by Sora house- it was also locked that night.
1st 10 acres of resort are fully fenced, second area of plantation not fenced - its in planning they cant fence it in (thats the are where Sora house is)
Back to window latch, they tried to replace it, but couldnt so no latch. No other guests had complained.
6.02.23 6 months before something someone size of elephant had been seen passing Sora house_ i struggled to understand this bit.
6.04 photos of witnesses mercedes car are shown- Nora lawyer implies other cars couldnt be identified. Judge slowly goes through approx 10 photos, most she confirmed were her car with child seat in, about 4 she couldnt confirm.
6.10.20 the doors and wondows of the buildings in the resort are salvaged and recycled from other buildings as part of eco promise. bathrooms have a lock where you pres to lock/ turn to open and it clicks. What about the sliding door, can you hear it? no, i would have to guess.
questions about lights- there are lights on all the pathways, houses are also lit, no light away from the pathways.
6.13.42
Talking about stairs and nature- the concept is the houses are open to the views and you feel the fresh air. No air con, enjoy the humid views. No TV, its an eco resort with no air con.
questioned by noras lawyer- is that what your adverts show? yes we are as clear as possible especially with people who book an open plan villa. ( Booking.com must be the site used as she refers to their adverts on their) It states clearly and is 1st in the FAQs. We have 12 acres and 20 guests, no service during your stay.
Asked of any incidents of theft etc- one of phone, but it was 6 months after stay and he threatedned to give a bad review if they didnt get him a new phone, they ignored him, no review.
Asked about the front door
It’s a door knob where you press to lock turn to open could easily be opened by a young child. Very narrow staircase 1 person at a time and no good if you are tall- as a female adult she can’t stand up
Click to expand...

This is excellent. Thank you. What a pity you couldn't understand the point about the size of an elephant. Never mind. The front door knob and bathroom lock and knob are very similar to ones we had in a previous house and I've had visiting children not be able to operate any of them. So does that mean the open window was easier to get out of? Did she need the toilet and the door was unopenable to her?
 
MsBetsy said:
The Shaman performed the ritual on the 12th, the night before Nora's body was found. It was reported on that day. He said that she had been taken by a spirit (as a stepchild) in the form of an animal or human. He asked the spirit to return her but said he would ask for something in exchange. He said that would be between the two of them.

The following day is when her body was found.
Click to expand...
I saw that but there are reports of shamans traveling there from much earlier in the search. I shared one link a few days ago..I cannot find it now. Might have been Murdoch rag, The Sun a report of shamans from different countries traveling to Malaysia to help in search.
On the night of the 12th the reward was announced, there is no evidence suggesting that either the reward announcement or the shaman's prayers directly led to the discovery of nora's body.
Therein lies the crux.
 
kittythehare said:
I saw that but there are reports of shamans traveling there from much earlier in the search. I shared one link a few days ago..I cannot find it now. Might have been Murdoch rag, The Sun a report of shamans from different countries traveling to Malaysia to help in search.
On the night of the 12th the reward was announced, there is no evidence suggesting that either the reward announcement or the shaman's prayers directly led to the discovery of nora's body.
Therein lies the crux.
Click to expand...
It's quite a coincidence tho, if you are looking for anything odd.

JMO
 
Officer Dibble said:
This is excellent. Thank you. What a pity you couldn't understand the point about the size of an elephant. Never mind. The front door knob and bathroom lock and knob are very similar to ones we had in a previous house and I've had visiting children not be able to operate any of them. So does that mean the open window was easier to get out of? Did she need the toilet and the door was unopenable to her?
Click to expand...
Possibly, round knobs are harder to grasp and manoeuvre- wonder if this is how they know she didn’t use the door though???
Gutted about the elephant part- I watched it twice as well.
 
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