Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #82

[SouthAussie]

It's in the UK timeline I posted four posts up.
Not listening to WHO would probably have saved us many deaths. That's my point. March thru June is when we had the majority of our deaths.
You clearly did the right thing not listening to them.

I don't think the UK govt was taking WHO's advisement. I think the UK govt was offering the same advisement.

From your link ... "But the UK Government and the World Health Organisation were assuring people that they would be wasting their time to take such measures."

My country offered that same advisement as well, but it came from our own federal health experts. And that advisement holds to this day. No masks. We only utilise masks when infection rates dictate that we should (Victoria and occassionally in NSW, so far).
The thing that we, and others, did right was close our borders, and stop people from moving around.
Then we could get control of the virus through other measures, before the virus overtook us.

IMO

 

[tresir2012]

I don't think the UK govt was taking WHO's advisement. I think the UK govt was offering the same advisement.

From your link ... "But the UK Government and the World Health Organisation were assuring people that they would be wasting their time to take such measures."

My country offered that same advisement as well, but it came from our own federal health experts. And that advisement holds to this day. No masks. We only utilise masks when infection rates dictate that we should (Victoria and occassionally in NSW).
The thing that we, and others, did right was close our borders., and stop people from moving around.
Then we could get control of the virus through other measures, before the virus overtook us.

IMO

There is also a Lancet link in the article, which has more info and links.

Are you saying you don't wear masks or social distance in most of Australia?

 

[SouthAussie]

There is also a Lancet link in the article, which has more info and links.

Are you saying you don't wear masks or social distance in most of Australia?

No, we do not wear masks.

Yes, we do social distance everywhere, and always have .. since this thing began.

It is the travel and moving around that has caused such huge spread everywhere. Something we (and others) nipped in the bud right away.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If the virus spreads further through the autumn and winter, Iwasaki expects to see more reinfections, with some patients infectious enough to pass the virus on.

Flurry of coronavirus reinfections leaves scientists puzzled

Good piece, and educational as to the differences on intate vs. adaptive. Unfortunately, 95% of folks don't have the educational, background and critical thinking perhaps to understand the nuances of how new science is fluid, and additive.

It so so pains me that some individuals parrot information from months and month ago, not understanding how fast science learns... what was speculated and acted upon just 3 months ago.. or now even DAYS ago as we have seen, is out of date. That is expected due to "learning science" MOO but others will just harp and harp and harp on such. MOO Reminds me of the widespread ignorance (not an insulting term, just means doesn't understand) of when AIDS/HIV first came out.

I recall back in my education and day-to-day job, that in marketing messages, you had to reach an audience with a 8th grade level of education. Yep, that was the gold standard. (OOPS, it is now 7th grade? Are you targeting your audience at the right literacy level?) So with this fast moving pandemic, new to the world..this is such an issue especially with not a strong SINGLE message. So so many latch onto a message they have that they hold fast from months ago. And unfortunately, I believe that so few actually go to the science and the source (e.g. how us critical thinking WS'ers like to see the court documents vs. the media article)

And education these days has moved away from creating critical thinkers. MOO.

It's especially difficult when the folks don't have a concept to compare to as to learnings before (e.g. how South Korea and China responded .. not withstanding their governments are more controlling... but in general... I think most world wide know that in certain countries they are very clear in understanding of use of masks etc as a norm for disease prevention)

I don't have any idea how to overcome such challenges for educating folks. Other than ONE strong, clear, repetitive, simple messages from the top to the bottom -- with those talking the talk and walking the walk.

MOO

e.g. Testing/Tracing/Quarantine&Isolation

e.g. Mask/Social Distance/Hygiene

 

[tresir2012]

Good piece, and educational as to the differences on intate vs. adaptive. Unfortunately, 95% of folks don't have the educational, background and critical thinking perhaps to understand the nuances of how new science is fluid, and additive.

It so so pains me that some individuals parrot information from months and month ago, not understanding how fast science learns... what was speculated and acted upon just 3 months ago.. or now even DAYS ago as we have seen, is out of date. That is expected due to "learning science" MOO but others will just harp and harp and harp on such. MOO Reminds me of the widespread ignorance (not an insulting term, just means doesn't understand) of when AIDS/HIV first came out.

I recall back in my education and day-to-day job, that in marketing messages, you had to reach an audience with a 8th grade level of education. Yep, that was the gold standard. (OOPS, it is now 7th grade? Are you targeting your audience at the right literacy level?) So with this fast moving pandemic, new to the world..this is such an issue especially with not a strong SINGLE message. So so many latch onto a message they have that they hold fast from months ago. And unfortunately, I believe that so few actually go to the science and the source (e.g. how us critical thinking WS'ers like to see the court documents vs. the media article)

And education these days has moved away from creating critical thinkers. MOO.

It's especially difficult when the folks don't have a concept to compare to as to learnings before (e.g. how South Korea and China responded .. not withstanding their governments are more controlling... but in general... I think most world wide know that in certain countries they are very clear in understanding of use of masks etc as a norm for disease prevention)

I don't have any idea how to overcome such challenges for educating folks.

I guess it helps if you give them the correct advice at first instead of trying to bamboozle them so that you can shore up you country's medical supplies. That is what happened IMO.

 

[sds71]

How about the various funerals--like for John Lewis...

Were these large 4 day funerals also 'super spreaders?'

That’s John McCain’s funeral

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess it helps if you give them the correct advice at first instead of trying to bamboozle them so that you can shore up you country's medical supplies. That is what happened IMO.

And that is exactly what I am trying to get across. Why were we not bamboozled? Why was NZ not bamboozled? Why were Vietnam, South Korea not bamboozled?

I can assure you we had no "inside track" on this virus. No indications other than what everyone else had. We also had our first 'known' case of covid in January, just like the US.
We had a cruise ship spreader event, and several wedding spreader events, and we then slammed our borders closed and curtailed all movement.

I think the point is, some countries were savvy enough to go into protection and suppression mode very early. And other countries fluffed around hoping the virus would go away.

And now we must all do something about this. We can't keep on fluffing around. A vaccine may be far away, and may only offer 50% protection when it arrives - as some indications are now showing. We just cannot keep allowing all these people to die.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

I almost got kicked off an airplane on March 6th, for WEARING a mask. Seriously...

I was flying to visit my Mom for her birthday and because I was reading this thread I was very nervous about the flight.

I had some masks from a previous hospital visit, so I wore one to the airport. People looked at me like I was crazy.

The flight attendant frowned at me when I boarded the plane. She came to my seat as I was putting up my back pack---and asked me if I was ill or contagious. I said 'NO, I am just trying to protect myself.'

"from what?" she asked...

"The virus I have been reading about. "

So she lectured me and said loudly " masks do not protect you, they only protect others. Wearing it makes it appear toasty we have something to worry about around you. I suggest you remove it on the flight."

I did have it pulled down while I was speaking to her, which when I look back, it was stupid to do.

But I ignored her the rest of the flight. Even waved off my peanuts and ginger ale..."

 

[dixiegirl1035]

How a 13-year-old spread COVID-19 to 11 relatives in four states | Boston.com
Much more at link

Scientists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the health departments of four states — Georgia, Illinois, Massachusetts and Rhode Island — described a 13-year-old girl who became infected with the coronavirus just before a three-week family gathering. Eleven other relatives, including her mother, her father, two brothers and two grandparents, also became infected.

This is soooo strange and sends chills. This sounds so much like my friend who rented a vacation home in Panama City. If this article had included Florida, I would have said it was about them. 23 went... and whoa............... it was unbelievable what happened to them all. I sent her this article as was so strange and analagous.

 

[katydid23]

And that is exactly what I am trying to get across. Why were we not bamboozled? Why was NZ not bamboozled? Why were Vietnam, South Korea not bamboozled?

I can assure you we had no "inside track" on this virus. No indications other than what everyone else had. We also had our first 'known' case of covid in January, just like the US.
We had a cruise ship spreader event, and several wedding spreader events, and we then slammed our borders closed and curtailed all movement.

Your total population is 24 million. You are essentially an island, with borders you can easily shut down.

We have 325 million population and huge borders with South America and Canada. So it is unfair to compare the two situations.

You only had to find enough PPE and tests for 25 million. That is like the total needs our state of California.

 

[oviedo]

CBS this morning - Gayle asking Dr Jha why the last negative test for the President hasn’t been released - he is baffled - will look for the link as I’m watching it live
Oh dear
Now the Administration is saying the plexiglass isn’t proven to stop the virus (regarding the debate set up)
Sigh
Eta
Advisers to Pence maintained that there was no need for a barrier on his side of the stage.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...b-a166-dc429b380d10_story.html?outputType=amp

 

[tresir2012]

And that is exactly what I am trying to get across. Why were we not bamboozled? Why was NZ not bamboozled? Why were Vietnam, South Korea not bamboozled?

I can assure you we had no "inside track" on this virus. No indications other than what everyone else had. We also had our first 'known' case of covid in January, just like the US.

I don't have an answer to it. They are the facts though. Most of our UK deaths occurred before the mask advice changed. Now we have some experience managing the hospitalisations, some promising drugs and treatments and less vulnerable people catching it so that we can hopefully deal with it while we await the vaccine. The advice is for us all to get the flu jab and to sign up for contact tracing. Early detection can help with treatment.

 

[musicaljoke]

Looking at it would remind me of toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and masks in the year 2020 because that's what the ornament is. I remember the stories of friends and people on WS sharing the lengths they went to, to get those items, and the alternatives they had planned.

Speaking of ghoulish memorabilia, I'm going to print a photo of Dr. Music and I with our home made masks on, print off my shopping list, gather some news articles, and start a tiny memory box. I'll hand write a paragraph about how it feels when we can't gather for Thanksgiving. Someday I will want the kidlets to know how this disease got so far away from us.

 

[SouthAussie]

Your total population is 24 million. You are essentially an island, with borders you can easily shut down.

We have 325 million population and huge borders with South America and Canada. So it is unfair to compare the two situations.

You only had to find enough PPE and tests for 25 million. That is like the total needs our state of California.

It is not unfair, katy. The US has two continental borders, they are both closed.

But flights in and out of the country haven't stopped, have they?

When something is done quickly and decisively huge amounts of PPE are not required. I have mentioned so many times we do not wear masks. Not required. Only became required recently - in Victoria - when Victoria had its 2nd wave.

But it is no good rehashing and rehashing. There needs to be a good and decisive plan moving forward - and I am so disappointed that I still do not see one that has any chance of working.

IMO

 

[tresir2012]

CBS this morning - Gayle asking Dr Jha why the last negative test for the President hasn’t been released - he is baffled - will look for the link as I’m watching it live
Oh dear
Now the Administration is saying the plexiglass isn’t proven to stop the virus (regarding the debate set up)
Sigh

So does that mean the plexiglass that has been fitted in all our shops and businesses is useless? I don't know what to say.

Link to BBC article

Pence and Harris to debate behind plexiglass

(Mods please delete if OT)

 

[SouthAussie]

CBS this morning - Gayle asking Dr Jha why the last negative test for the President hasn’t been released - he is baffled - will look for the link as I’m watching it live
Oh dear
Now the Administration is saying the plexiglass isn’t proven to stop the virus (regarding the debate set up)
Sigh

Oh, what does it matter? Plexiglass. Doesn't the administration have bigger things to worry about than some protective plexiglass?

Why all this fuss about personal protection? I just don't get it.

 

[musicaljoke]

We are not talking about students in the UK. We are talking about thousands of people in the US getting together for unnecessary political rallies in the US. It's a whole other level of unnecessary super spreader events, not uni students partying.

Was there any difference between uni students partying and the WH Rose garden event?

Me thinks not.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Over 80k deaths were preventable - I agree. But the rest weren't. Why aren't flu deaths preventable too? Noone gives a fig about them and more children die of flu than coronavirus. (See link below) Also, how do you account for the enormous differences between the individual states death rates?

DeSantis Says COVID Is a Lower Risk for School-Aged Kids Than Flu

The article you post is back from August--before schools even opened. But I do think that the cases with the school age children aren't too bad.

However, remember Florida is similar to the White House---we really don't get the truth. This is from an article from late September

In Florida, where Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has pushed schools to open even in areas with high coronavirus positivity rates, some counties have been pressured not to release school-specific coronavirus information, citing privacy concerns.

A promised state school coronavirus dashboard has not yet been produced, although there is a “pediatric report” that shows some data, by county, of cases for Floridians younger than 18. According to the latest report, as of Tuesday, there is 13.7 percent rate of positive cases among children ages 1 to 17.

Andrew Spar, president of the Florida Education Association, the state’s teacher’s union, said it’s hard to discern the true situation.

moo moo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...09bb84-fd22-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html

 

[JerseyGirl]

After Harris made the original request for plexiglass, Katie Miller said in a statement: "If Sen. Harris wants to use a fortress around herself, have at it."

then ...

Stephen Miller, a senior policy aide to Trump tested positive for coronavirus. His wife, Katie Miller, who is the communications director for Vice President Mike Pence, had tested positive in May.

In light of the news of Stephen’s positive test, Katie Miller, who tested negative Monday afternoon, left (the VP debate site) Utah “out of an abundance of caution,” a White House official said.

Stephen Miller, top White House aide, tests positive for coronavirus

 

[katydid23]

It is not unfair, katy. The US has two continental borders, they are both closed.

But flights in and out of the country haven't stopped, have they?

When something is done quickly and decisively huge amounts of PPE is not required. I have mentioned so many times we do not wear masks. Not required. Only became required recently - in Victoria - when Victoria had its 2nd wave.

But it is no good rehashing and rehashing. There needs to be a good and decisive plan moving forward - and I am so disappointed that I still do not see one that has any chance of working.

It is unfair because you cannot compare a country with 25 million, spread out in a large land swath, with a much larger population, of 325 million, many in densely packed urban centers.

By the time we were able to fully close our borders, the major damage was already down.

We had many cities on both sides of the border that had citizens who worked or attended school on a daily basis on the other side. So closing down the borders, effectively, took awhile. We didn't want anyone trapped on the wrong side.

Not all of our flights have stopped, no. But again, it is harder to shut down travel for 325 million diverse citizens than for 25 million.