IA IA - Rose Burkert, 22, & Roger Atkison, 32, Williamsburg, 12 Sept 1980

[Betty P]

S2 EP2 of Scene of the Crime is out now. In 'Crime Scene Investigation' we take a look at the hotel room crime scene, and the evidence that was found in Room 260. We address some theories of how the killer, or killers, accessed the room, and retrace the steps of the investigators as they notify Roger and Rose’s next of kin.
https://www.spreaker.com/.../scene-of-the-crime-season-2...

So much more information than we've previously heard about this case.

Without getting into the details, I wonder if Rose was sexually assaulted? Glad they investigated and eliminated some of the more bizarre theories about this case, including the idea the couple was involved in a "swingers club" in their hometown. Apparently not.

Paul Holes theory about a possible serial killer still sounds the most plausible. Still strong possibility that the killer came to the room when Rose went downstairs to move the car.

 

[Jbetty567]

So much more information than we've previously heard about this case.

Without getting into the details, I wonder if Rose was sexually assaulted? Glad they investigated and eliminated some of the more bizarre theories about this case, including the idea the couple was involved in a "swingers club" in their hometown. Apparently not.

Paul Holes theory about a possible serial killer still sounds the most plausible. Still strong possibility that the killer came to the room when Rose went downstairs to move the car.

But so many odd, personal behaviors by the killer seem to indicate a targeted crime... this case will keep your guessing for sure!

 

[Rollsballs]

Hello MysteryMike and McBrainder.
Maybe I have the explanation for the soap bits on the floor. Please give your thoughts and opinions about it.

Imagine Rose went to get her car out of the parking place outside. Roger had put himself at home. In shorts and because it might be hot. While Rose is outside he probably thinks about what to do in the meantime. He thinks something and goes get the soap. Sits in one of the chairs and carves the soap into tiny bits (all or half of it). Now, why he would carve some soap bits? Because he wants to shave in the morning but he realizes he doesn't have any cream left or forgot at home. He has his all fancy and costly hot lather machine to use but no cream.

Back in the late 1970s, (I know it is 1980, but is all the same like to be living in the late 1970s) you could pour regular soap in the water of a lather machine to make foam. He could had possible realized he didn't brought the cream and thought he could use some soap bits to find his own. He carves some soap to use with the machine for in the morning. It would be quick, just throwing the soap bits into the machine filled with water and turn it on to dissolve the bits. Or, he could have done that to have the cream ready the next day. The soap bits would dissolve in hours within water. Maybe that's when his doing this that the killer arrive with Rose from outside, threatning them and Roger, off course, drops the bits to the floor in panic or scare. What do you think about this theory?

I was waiting for a mention of the hot lather machine..and the soap.. it was before my time so I wasnt sure what the machine was for

 

[Rollsballs]

I think you are right with ether the hot lather machine prep, or the killer doing it to kill time while the victims take their last breaths .. which could be several mins.. I know from decades of hunting .. nothing dies instantly .. meaning even with head strikes or a shot to he head . .all mammals continue "living" for a short amount of time... the body is strong.

 

[morf13]

Scene of the Crime S2 EP 3 'The Investigation Continues' is out now! This episode covers the extensive investigation that extended into multiple states as detectives tracked down everyone at the hotel that night. We look at a mysterious phone call that came in for the room registered to “Burkert.” Investigators begin to retrace Roger and Rose’s steps in the days leading up to the murders.

 

[Betty P]

I was waiting for a mention of the hot lather machine..and the soap.. it was before my time so I wasnt sure what the machine was for

Popular Christmas gift for husbands, etc.

 

[CastlesBurning]

1980 double murder cold case receives attention from new podcast

 

[Betty P]

1980 double murder cold case receives attention from new podcast

From the article, they have what they believe is the killer's DNA

A couple of years ago, the Iowa County Sheriff’s Office reexamined the evidence and found traces of the killer’s DNA on a towel from the motel room. However, they haven’t been able to match the DNA with any suspects.

“It’s probably the killer’s DNA, since it was a towel that we found blood smeared from both victims and then this unknown DNA left on a towel in the bathroom, where there’s blood spatter, where you can see that somebody had cleaned themselves up at the sink,” Rotter said. “So it’s very likely that we have the right DNA, but what we have not been able to do is find who it belongs to.”

So, genetic genealogy? Does anyone know how expensive it is to have that kind of analysis done?

 

[sandy_80]

long time lurker ...this case being on of my pet cases finally made me join
I was one of the people who suggested this case for paul holes for his show on twitter ...but the new podcast ( scene of the crime ) has done well so far in trying to put the case together since its such a complicated investigation from so long ago
I have since discovering it have found the case fascinating..from the unusual crime scene to the unusual long list of suspeciouse ppl attached
to it...
the serial killer angle suggested by paul holes and others is understandable for similarity with another case ( that actually had homosexuakl undertones motive ) ...however everything in this case screams personal ....to find out that secret lovers were chosen randomly by a serial killer seems a bit hard to believe even though the possibilities is endless
the few things that caught my attention mostly from the new podcast
//the alleged phone call that asked for a ( burkert )
//roger co worker ( testimony about the car changing and not adding up )
//the fact that a lot of ppl at his work knew what was his destination
and about the affair
//the husband of rose friend who was baby sitting reaction to the murder >>and his statements about posting a call to the room and about knowing about where they were staying not adding up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
the call makes me think ...it could be murder for hire ...somebody from roger side or rose side wanted them dead ...
killer might have tracked them or was the one who called and was possibly given room number by the new worker
killer might have lurked and followed rose after parking the car...either forcing her in or knocking and pretending to be something .....the fact that they haven't screamed or tried to resist is mind boggling .....if the room across said they can hear MUSIC ...how can a savage murder pass undetected

 

[sandy_80]

it seems this mike ex brother in law guy..had too many inconsistencies and acted way too suspicious and changed his statements and lied non stop and knew too much...adding to it the picture of his daughter was the one bit torn out of all stuff in rogers wallet .....so why wasn't he investigated more through the years... he either knew more or is part of it somehow .....
he and the other guy used to follow roger around and sneak spy on rose house...could this be a kind of sexual deviance behaviour that might have lead to that murder

 

[sandy_80]

keeping up with the podcast
I don't think I understand the detectives playing down all the prime suspects with phrases like >>no she too it very hard
or ( they were friends ) ....surely they dont expect a suspect to act suspicious 40 years after the crime...they have dna...why not ask for dna from the suspects ?
no wonder the investigation hit a dead end
paul holes I think is strongly fixated on a serial killer angle cause of the gsk
for me
the wife who is keeping the grudge even after all of theses years and who have conveniently collected a ( double ) insurance on her husband who was kept in a marriage against his will almost...and even went to collect more money from a law suit against the hotel >>>>and who acted all weird leading to the crime and after ...is def one to look at harder ...
then there is the ex brother in law
rose stalking violent ex
and even the creepy mothers family
all are strong suspects ....and still the less possible random or serial killer thing

the poor victims had unhappy lives and especially rose...had only tragedies and trouble and danger all around...

 

[sandy_80]

catching up with the latest suspect episode from the podcast
they def left the best for last
the highly suspicious father in law seems the one with all the ties
motive ...avenging his lil girl
weapon... he had lots of scary knives and by chance around the murders a machete have gone missing from his home
means.. lots of money have disappeared from his business around the murders that might gone for hit ppl
he was a violent man who threatened girlfriend with incriminating semi confections concerning the murder including saying to an officer he knew about the murder
yet with all of this he was easily let off cause he passed a polygraph 13 years after ... even though it seems he knew the trick to passing them
its very possible he went in there with his hired killer >>>seen them butchered .. it would explain why while the killer was killing them by one side of the bed.. rose didn't try to run
i always thought its one killer now i am with the 2
this wasn't a good investigation like those officers claimed...its a mess that wasted time on a random bartender with zero motive rather than very strong suspects with a zillion motive

 

[Betty P]

Welcome @sandy_80 !

Thanks for the update. I'm trying to figure out which episode I listened to last.

 

[sandy_80]

thanks @Betty P
.......................
catching up with the latest podcast episode
looking at the serial killer angle..as the crime is very similar to a murder of a young man a few months earlier
interesting point they bring up ...is ppl thought of the crimes as inspired by the SHINING
which was recently shown in theaters .....le had to disregard the connection instantly
t now that i think about it...why not
if its not personal...then its possible the inspo came from bloody ax murders in the shining ...even though its been a very new movie by then.. only one month showing...but surely there the book which was huge ....and the poor young man was killed in room 217

 

[Betty P]

thanks @Betty P
.......................
catching up with the latest podcast episode
looking at the serial killer angle..as the crime is very similar to a murder of a young man a few months earlier
interesting point they bring up ...is ppl thought of the crimes as inspired by the SHINING
which was recently shown in theaters .....le had to disregard the connection instantly
t now that i think about it...why not
if its not personal...then its possible the inspo came from bloody ax murders in the shining ...even though its been a very new movie by then.. only one month showing...but surely there the book which was huge ....and the poor young man was killed in room 217

I'm down to the third episode discussing suspects. I agree with Paul Holes that these townspeople who knew or were related to Rose and Roger have been pointing fingers at everyone over the years. Many were also really nosy people with a lot of time on their hands, typical small town behavior.

Eliminate the ones who:

Don't really have a motive

Didn't know where the couple was going that weekend

Had enough time to make the long (4 hours?) trip to the murder scene and back home

It's crazy how many busybodies were following poor Rose. Those who may have judged her and Roger for having an affair were just unkind people, but not motivated to commit such a horrific murder. The former boyfriend didn't know where they were staying. In spite of their annoying gossip and spying, they don't deserve to have their names dragged through the mud, though.

The ex-wife does sound like an unkind person and Roger was stuck in a terrible, loveless marriage, almost by coercion. JMO, his wife knew of his affairs for some time and knew this one with Rose was serious. Roger probably admitted it recently and announced plans for divorce.

Need to listen more about when the life insurance was purchased for Roger. JMO, I still think Paul Holes may be right about the killer, but someone closely related to Roger's wife is also possible.

 

[sandy_80]

my thoughts on the link to the Galesburg murder
the similarities are undeniable...but the most important difference is one male vs a couple .....
the motive for the Galesburg murder is also not convincing ...
the homosexual factor sounds manufactured to suit the detectives
the male found in his undershorts in both cases...is not a clue
the toothpaste thing ? who knows what this means...a killer signature ?
but why these hotels and why these two rooms ? why not more than one murder per hotel seems he knew how to get away undetected ?
also what about the two attackers theory in roger and rose case ?
how did one person control two people ..
what baffles me more and more...is how you commit such a bloody crime in a hotel and you don't draw attention ?
and more importantly...the no forced entry angle in both cases ?? did he knock and pretend to be someone ...........................
so many questions

 

[Betty P]

my thoughts on the link to the Galesburg murder
the similarities are undeniable...but the most important difference is one male vs a couple .....
the motive for the Galesburg murder is also not convincing ...
the homosexual factor sounds manufactured to suit the detectives
the male found in his undershorts in both cases...is not a clue
the toothpaste thing ? who knows what this means...a killer signature ?
but why these hotels and why these two rooms ? why not more than one murder per hotel seems he knew how to get away undetected ?
also what about the two attackers theory in roger and rose case ?
how did one person control two people ..
what baffles me more and more...is how you commit such a bloody crime in a hotel and you don't draw attention ?
and more importantly...the no forced entry angle in both cases ?? did he knock and pretend to be someone ...........................
so many questions

Yes, some of these questions indicate a killer who had done this before or had spent considerable time planning it.

 

[sandy_80]

Yes, some of these questions indicate a killer who had done this before or had spent considerable time planning it.

yet the prime suspect ( Esparza ) for the first case and supposingly the killer according to holes and the theory the detectives put around him suggest Galesburg murder was random at least as location go... as the suspect was dropped by an officer !!!! near the hotel by chance ...however he was wearing a belt with tools which might have included the knife which not a tool certainly

 

[sandy_80]

I haven't listened to the whole new podcast ep..but it brings yet another brutal hotel room slaying with similarities from 1970..
just how common were hotel brutal murders >>>its baffling how you can do something so brutal in a hotel/motel without detection ..
I just stumbled across another horrific crime in the Travel Inn Motor Hotel/ Manhattan from 1979 where a male killer resided there and beheaded two women and set them on fire whiteout any detection !
edit
the last murders turns out to be by the serial killer Richard Cottingham..a prolific serial hotel killer too.. he even gone back for his last murder to a hotel he killed in before like whatttt...were hotels a murder perfect spot back then

 

[sandy_80]

this last episode not as interesting as the others...takes you down the rabbit hole into another hotel murder from 1970...following paul holes theory that a serial killer did it then waited another ten years to commit another two ...all because of the way of killing and the tooth paste thing
......
ignoring the fact that they can't tie the suspect in the 1980 murder to roger and rose or to the meridian case....and the fact that in roger and rose case it seemed they knew the killer and was sitting by the bed .........