Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[steeltowngirl]

How do they know the bomb threat was unconnected to the murders if they never caught who called in the bomb threat?

They stated that the 2/22/17 bomb threat was unrelated to the homicide investigation. IMO, they made the statement to eliminate public confusion. ISP did not evacuate the plant after the bomb threat, but rather went in and searched.

Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said police remained at the scene until shortly after 4 p.m. helping Indiana Packers management and other law enforcement search the plant. The search turned up nothing, Leazenby said.

"I think somebody must've thought we had a bunch of downtime," Leazenby said in jest as police activity at the plant wound down.

He clarified that the activity was unrelated to law enforcement's ongoing investigation into the murder of two teenage Delphi girls.

UPDATED: Police: Bomb threat called in to Indiana Packers in Delphi

That same day 2/22/17, a news reporter released a photo of boots being taken in for analysis. The report did NOT state they were from the plant search, but since it happened the same day, it needed to be clarified.

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/834521628419710989

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

I can remember, that I had the impression in 2019, that DC absolutely tried to look in no certain direction for too many seconds.

We, the public, shouldn't know, which suspect the LE had/have, IF they had/have one. Do you think, DC would have given himself away with looking straight in a certain direction? It makes no sense, IMO. It makes sense, when he didn't look in a direction, where the perp or his "supporter" may have sat/stood and when he did avoid eye contact. IMO So, tell me, in which direction DC didn't look straight. It would be more enlightening probably, possibly.

Honestly, I'm not sure as upset as he was at that April 2019 PC, that he would have be able to stop himself focusing momentarily on the killer if in fact the he was in the room. He also looked all around the room, at the families, directly into the cameras. What I noticed was brief but poignant glances. Like I said just my observation, AJMO.

 

[Seattle1]

States' state police labs usually don't, anyway. Third parties are often times responsible for that.

JMO

Except going around the state restriction by using private labs or partnering with FBI hardly sounds best practice or effective when it's so important, and also puts evidence in question for future prosecution.

I was pleased to hear that NY State regulators finally approved the use of the emerging forensic technique of familial searching to help police identify crime victims.

State approves use of familial searching to help identify crime victims

 

[mom2chloe]

They stated that the 2/22/17 bomb threat was unrelated to the homicide investigation. IMO, they made the statement to eliminate public confusion. ISP did not evacuate the plant after the bomb threat, but rather went in and searched.

Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said police remained at the scene until shortly after 4 p.m. helping Indiana Packers management and other law enforcement search the plant. The search turned up nothing, Leazenby said.

"I think somebody must've thought we had a bunch of downtime," Leazenby said in jest as police activity at the plant wound down.

He clarified that the activity was unrelated to law enforcement's ongoing investigation into the murder of two teenage Delphi girls.

UPDATED: Police: Bomb threat called in to Indiana Packers in Delphi

That same day 2/22/17, a news reporter released a photo of boots being taken in for analysis. The report did NOT state they were from the plant search, but since it happened the same day, it needed to be clarified.

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/834521628419710989

jmo

How many among us believe the bomb threat and other wise may be related? It’s very confusing especially given how little we are privy to IMO

 

[goldiegirl]

Jumping off of the way our own perceptions influence how we see others:

I never understand how people give a weight, or honestly even a height for that matter, of someone they are describing. And how much confidence and stock LE seems to put into these descriptions! Sometimes I think they're really narrowing things down too much when I see perpetrator descriptions based on eyewitness statements.

I'm old enough that I should probably know the difference between someone who is 5'10 or 6'1 or 150 lbs verses 180, but there's no way I'd be able to make that distinction as an eyewitness, especially in a few seconds of a crisis OR looking back on someone later whom I didn't know I'd have to be observing at the time. I can only imagine how much worse I would have been at this when I was younger. Even in my mid 20s I couldn't distinguish between a 35 and a 45 year old.

Eyewitness statements are notoriously unreliable, so the different sketches weren't a huge surprise to me.

 

[sunshineray]

They stated that the 2/22/17 bomb threat was unrelated to the homicide investigation. IMO, they made the statement to eliminate public confusion. ISP did not evacuate the plant after the bomb threat, but rather went in and searched.

Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said police remained at the scene until shortly after 4 p.m. helping Indiana Packers management and other law enforcement search the plant. The search turned up nothing, Leazenby said.

"I think somebody must've thought we had a bunch of downtime," Leazenby said in jest as police activity at the plant wound down.

He clarified that the activity was unrelated to law enforcement's ongoing investigation into the murder of two teenage Delphi girls.

UPDATED: Police: Bomb threat called in to Indiana Packers in Delphi

That same day 2/22/17, a news reporter released a photo of boots being taken in for analysis. The report did NOT state they were from the plant search, but since it happened the same day, it needed to be clarified.

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/834521628419710989

jmo

Wasn't there also a joint police press conference on the Delphi murders on the same day, February 22, 2017, as the bomb threat call? That seems a bit odd.

 

[Charlot123]

Perhaps the DA should consider getting a change of venue to recruit jurors who don't have local loyalties and aren't afraid to rule against an "upstanding" member of the community if necessary.

If the DNA and/or fingerprint evidence match the suspect they have in mind, that's a very strong case. People have been convicted of similar crimes on much less evidence. It sounds like its a moral dilemma for the community, though, IMO, it shouldn't be.

Maybe DC is afraid that if the country finds out who the person is, damage could be done to the very core of DC’s moral convictions and values? Something like it. I can't think of anything else.

Based on discussions of the plants in the past, the working conditions can be brutal. That, in and of itself, does not make workers in the plants more likely to commit crime. But someone who might be otherwise unemployable due to a criminal record could find work in an environment that many would find undesirable.

Also, there were allegations that the Indiana plant hired illegal workers. Indiana Packers responds to lawsuit alleging illegal employees

There is a perception that illegal workers would be more likely to commit crime. Not being documented would certainly make it more difficult to tie someone to a crime.

jmo

While most illegal workers, actually, have the same interests as we do, i.e., earning more money to support their families, one problem might be the inability to do good criminal background check.

 

[Charlot123]

There was a bridge restoration project for which JKK was the photographer. FSG and his brother were members and several others. Stories and photos were done for the local papers to raise money for the restoration and to get city approval for it. I think it was in 2016 and 2017.

Even this one...if they check everyone who worked at it, especially, people doing the job, (as opposed bureaucrats known in Delphi) could yield some results.
Delphi, Indiana Celebrates Historic Bridge Restoration - DLZ

As to this, the survey and preparations were probably done in 2016. It would be interesting to see who was directly involved, who went to the bridge. Probably living close, but not in Delphi.

Rescue and repair scheduled for Delphi's Monon High Bridge | Carroll County Comet

 

[sandy_80]

I would like to see them do a reverse genealogy test on his DNA like the golden state killer (amongst others). Cece Moore is incredible and could probably help a lot

they are not sure its his DNA , and I don't think they have a full dna sample like paul holes said its very complicated and said ( he doesnt think this case will not be solved through DNA ) on sotc podcast

 

[technicallymissing]

they are not sure its his DNA , and I don't think they have a full dna sample like paul holes said its very complicated and said ( he doesnt think this case will not be solved through DNA ) on sotc podcast

That was really sobering to hear, imo. It begs the question (assuming they're not bluffing) what is it that has LE so insistent they're going to catch this guy, and what is it that has prevented that from happening these 4 years? I can see why people arrive at both the "they know who he is but don't have enough evidence" as well as the "he's being protected somehow" theories even if I don't necessarily subscribe to either of them.

What else is there left to think? If they remain convinced they will apprehend him, but it likely won't be through DNA, and whatever they're working on has already taken 4 years... you start to think either they have absolutely no case against this guy they apparently all know is a child killer, or they really have absolutely no idea who he is.

 

[sandy_80]

That was really sobering to hear, imo. It begs the question (assuming they're not bluffing) what is it that has LE so insistent they're going to catch this guy, and what is it that has prevented that from happening these 4 years? I can see why people arrive at both the "they know who he is but don't have enough evidence" as well as the "he's being protected somehow" theories even if I don't necessarily subscribe to either of them.

What else is there left to think? If they remain convinced they will apprehend him, but it likely won't be through DNA, and whatever they're working on has already taken 4 years... you start to think either they have absolutely no case against this guy they apparently all know is a child killer, or they really have absolutely no idea who he is.

I have never thought that they had any case, the whole investigation seemed random and a mess from the start.. they don't have experience for such a case , but surely they wouldn't tell you they are desperate , the info they keep guarding might give them some confidence that some day BG will get drunk and blurt something somewhere.

 

[Tealgrove]

As for DNA, it could be that they have such a small amount that they have to be careful about testing until they have a really viable suspect.

 

[TL4S]

IMO it’s possible although not likely that the creek water was a weapon. BG didn’t necessarily need another weapon because the water is powerful and unforgiving. Water always wins. Two girls, BGs two hands. Maybe he drowned one to comply the other. Perhaps he pushed them both down face first in an effort to reveal which girl was stronger. No screams necessary as they both literally would have feared for each others lives. IMO

Drowning would seem a viable COD in a case where bodies are found by the water, but in this case, I don't think it's likely. Even if he could have controlled them enough to do that, he would have had to carry them from the bank to where they were found. It would be very difficult. Plus, didn't Ives or someone state they died where they fell, or something to that efffect? JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Wasn't there also a joint police press conference on the Delphi murders on the same day, February 22, 2017, as the bomb threat call? That seems a bit odd.

I remember, that Delphi citizens were invited to a "town house". It should have been a "closed event", without press. The participants had to stay silent afterwards, after having more info on the double murder. Don't know, which day this happened.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How many among us believe the bomb threat and other wise may be related? It’s very confusing especially given how little we are privy to IMO

I'm one of the few (?), who are believing of some relation between the double murder and the bomb threat. Chess moves by the killer. - For me it would be nice to know, where the pinging of the caller was located in 2017, IF it was located. I would use it as evidence for my theory, and my theory says: there is a hospital exactly within that area. If not, it might have been the accomplice, who helped with this call from another location.

Btw: There was a bomb threat during the investigation of the murder of MissB/TX and it was great excitement in 2016 (?), but never confirmed, if the threat had something to do with the investigation.

That event also influences me in my thinking.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

It is on the down the hill podcasts as well. I can’t remember what chapter but it is there,

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

Thank you!

 

[JudgeJudi]

As someone with a teenager in the family, I can't help but wonder whether or not these girls had already been talking to and expecting this man to meet up with them. The fact that Libby recorded him would lead us to think not (as in she suspected something bad was happening), but we should also keep in mind that he may have represented himself differently online (or on whatever app or social media), and they may have been expecting someone else. Perhaps they expected to meet a boy or two their own age and realized something was amiss when they saw he didn't match up.

this has been discussed many times.. but LE absolutely denied finding any suspicious online activity that is related to the case.

Do you have a link for the “police denying” statement? I don’t recall LE ever commenting one way or another about any sort of possible relationship between the killer and the two innocent victims. All I remember is the social media avenue was pursued by them at the onset.

There's been a number of posts on this subject. This is an extract from an excellent post by @cujenn81 in the Media, Maps, Timelines thread (p.45 #896):

Scene of the Crime: Delphi — Missing
Episode 2

"LE immediately looks into the girls social media accounts. Anna then discovers Abby has a male friend online that she doesn't know. She didn’t even know that Abby had a FB account because Abby had blocked her, as she'd been forbidden from having an account. The only electronic device Abby had was a Kindle Fire tablet. She got the tablet two months earlier on Christmas, and Anna didn’t know the password. Despite all of this, LE is fairly certain the girls hadn't planned to meet anyone on the trails that day and they didn’t find anything suspicious on SM or on any of the electronics."

 

[JudgeJudi]

ETA: Snapchat messages automatically delete themselves. LE may not have seen any suspicious phone activity, but the profile may have looked like a teenage boy. They wouldn't have seen any messages.

In December of 2017, a UK inmate was freed after years in prison when deleted social media messages disproved the allegations against him. Danny Kay was accused of rape in 2013. A key piece of evidence was a social media conversation between Kay and his accuser, in which he appeared to be apologizing for non-consensual sex. Kay maintained that the conversation shown to the jury was incomplete, but he believed the full conversation had been deleted and could not be retrieved. An interesting twist on the facts in the Kay case could arise through the use of a newer form of social media—apps that cause their messages to “self-destruct.” Snapchat and other social media platforms now contain features that allow their users to send messages, pictures, and videos that will vanish after a set period of time. Ironically, Snapchat’s own ghost logo perfectly captures the notion that your vanishing messages may come back to haunt you.

The idea that your self-destructing messages disappear forever is a common misconception.

Additionally, it may come as a surprise that you might be able to retrieve “disappearing” social media evidence through forensic tools. Some digital forensics firms have managed to re-access Snapchat messages, including viewed messages that had expired, and this service has already been used in divorce and missing teenager cases.

A diligent attorney will not fall prey to the illusion that Snapchat messages are lost forever, but will research and craft creative arguments regarding the admissibility of the evidence. In a new age of ephemeral social media, both attorneys and social media users should take heed that their self-destructing messages may be more permanent than they seem.

Snap out of it: the resurrection of “self-destructing” social media evidence

 

[Tealgrove]

Who is Anna?

 

[Yemelyan]

Who is Anna?

Anna Williams is Abby's mother.