George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[margarita25]

My bad, I deleted it bc I’m behind and may have missed something, but from that article there was this part:

“He said Floyd's blood sample had 11 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter and 5.6 nanograms of norfentanyl per milliliter. He said the level of methamphetamine was "low" and consistent with a prescription dose.“

Medical witnesses clash with defense over George Floyd's death

I didn’t know there was such a thing as prescription meth, but I googled and there is...I doubt it was prescription for obesity...did they mean fentanyl above? Or were they just trying to say the meth a low dose? Confused, why I dbm’d. I missed the last few days of court.

Prescription Methamphetamine: Everything You Need to Know

 

[Dogface]

It was testified a HEALTHY person would have died if DC did it to a healthy person

sharing this that I came across...sounds very similar to the situation with GF, and the person survived(although I’m sure they had some trauma from it). So it’s hard for me to accept that a healthy person would have died from it. But then again, I’m no expert.

Edit: I forgot the link
Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

 

[MsBetsy]

Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

I came across this, and was wondering if anyone knew if this prior body cam footage was going to be allowed in? I find it interesting because while it involves a teen, he was quite similar to GF in size.

I'm not sure if that's one of the two they are allowing. There was also a 14 he used excessive force with. One of the cases that will be shown as evidence is an arrest during which a man was restrained and Chauvin witnessed the other officer's placing the suspect in the recovery position. The man suffered an asthma attack and later the hospital staff told the officers if they had not given him medical attention sooner he would have died.

It shows Chauvin knew the risk he was taking but did it anyway. Imo

 

[missy1974]

sharing this that I came across...sounds very similar to the situation with GF, and the person survived(although I’m sure they had some trauma from it). So it’s hard for me to accept that a healthy person would have died from it. But then again, I’m no expert.

Is it my imagination? Didn't Dr. Thomas say yesterday that an otherwise healthy person may have survived? (I believe it was on direct too) Will go back and check when I'm done watching Baker. Will say JMO for now.

 

[MsBetsy]

sharing this that I came across...sounds very similar to the situation with GF, and the person survived(although I’m sure they had some trauma from it). So it’s hard for me to accept that a healthy person would have died from it. But then again, I’m no expert.

I think the main reason they banned the technique is because even a healthy person can die from prolonged neck and back pressure.

 

[missy1974]

I am still rewatching Bakers testimony, but my impression is that he had the particulars about what happened, but just didn't watch the video before performing the autopsy; however, he did watch it before completing his report.

He had enough information to know that doing a dissection on his back/neck was important to the case, he did say that this is not typically done in an autopsty IIRC.

quoting my own post...
Dr. Baker explains his thought process with the video and not watching it right away, etc. at about the 8:00 mark of this video, for anyone interested:

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[Dogface]

Is it my imagination? Didn't Dr. Thomas say yesterday that an otherwise healthy person may have survived? (I believe it was on direct too) Will go back and check when I'm done watching Baker. Will say JMO for now.

Sorry! In my reply I forgot the link to a story - I edited but wanted to include it in case you didn’t see it! And no, it wasn’t your imagination!
Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

 

[CrimeAway]

I don't think it has ever been mentioned what he had been doing that day. His girlfriend apparently had not seen him, since he had spent the night at a friend's house.

There's an interview that Mr Hall did (prior to his most recent arrest), that was apparently aired by Court TV.
I have found a shortened version of the interview on the Court TV YouTube channel, but evidently a longer version was aired.

<modsnip: Removed discussion of social media that is not an approved source>

Shortened version ( doesn't mention what they were doing):

 

[CrimeAway]

My bad, I deleted it bc I’m behind and may have missed something, but from that article there was this part:

“He said Floyd's blood sample had 11 nanograms of fentanyl per milliliter and 5.6 nanograms of norfentanyl per milliliter. He said the level of methamphetamine was "low" and consistent with a prescription dose.“

Medical witnesses clash with defense over George Floyd's death

I didn’t know there was such a thing as prescription meth, but I googled and there is...I doubt it was prescription for obesity...did they mean fentanyl above? Or were they just trying to say the meth a low dose? Confused, why I dbm’d. I missed the last few days of court.

Prescription Methamphetamine: Everything You Need to Know

Yes, methamphetamine is still prescribed (rarely) for ADHD and interestingly, has been trialed at very low doses for traumatic brain injury!
Treatment with low-dose methamphetamine improves behavioral ... : Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery

 

[mickey2942]

Methamphetamine produced by pharmaceutical standards and meth cooked in a kitchen are two very different drugs.

Not sure what GF took, but I am pretty sure it was not prescribed for him by a doctor, and purchased at a pharmacy.

 

[RANCH]

Sorry! In my reply I forgot the link to a story - I edited but wanted to include it in case you didn’t see it! And no, it wasn’t your imagination!
Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

Something must have been different in this case because the boy didn't die even with a neck restraint that lasted 17 minutes.

I would like to know how the judge ruled on the admissibility of this video. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

I want to know what his toxicology report said when he overdosed. JMO

I need to look for that on the media thread.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I bet Baker wishes he could plead the 5th. I don't think he expected the video evidence to lead to the outcry for justice that it did.

I think its possible he may be disciplined by whatever medical board oversees his area of medicine. And I expect he will quietly disappear in order to prevent a more expansive look at his work in police brutality cases. I do not see him as unbiased in his work.

Not following. What would he be disciplined for?

Calling it a homicide?

Saying it was due to what was a result of LE actions?

 

[Dogface]

Something must have been different in this case because the boy didn't die even with a neck restraint that lasted 17 minutes.

I would like to know how the judge ruled on the admissibility of this video. JMO

same!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I guess maybe I’m confused about DC’s charges. They differ from Texas a bit. The way I’m reading it is that the jury would have to find that he did not play a significant role, or any role, in GF’s death in order to acquit him of all charges. Is that right? I don’t think there’s even a slight chance the jurors won’t all agree he did play a huge role. It seems like it comes down to DC’s state of mind during this as to what to find him guilty of. Intent, I suppose. Granted I haven’t watched every minute of the trial, but I’ve not heard much testimony that speaks to this. Even watching the videos isn’t enough for me.

Have you reviewed the 3 charges. Not one of the requires intent. MOO

Repost below from media thread on charges MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION

POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES​

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE. Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. SNIP, not applicable
Subd.
2.Unintentional murders.Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

 

[missy1974]

I am half way through the cross examination of Baker, IMO he actually seems more comfortable while Nelson is questioning him, I have followed trials, this is feeling 'strange' to me. Again JMO

 

[CrimeAway]

Methamphetamine produced by pharmaceutical standards and meth cooked in a kitchen are two very different drugs.

Not sure what GF took, but I am pretty sure it was not prescribed for him by a doctor, and purchased at a pharmacy.

I totally agree!

It actually annoys me when people equate legally prescribed (and properly used) stimulants such as methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta), mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall), dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) and even methamphetamine (Desoxyn), with illegal meth or cocaine use.

ETA: somewhat OT, but there are studies showing that a large percentage of the prison population has ADHD.
A meta-analysis of the prevalence of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in incarcerated populations
Also other studies showing that early treatment for ADHD can help prevent later substance abuse:
Preventing Substance Abuse in ADHD Takes Early Treatment, Harvard Expert Says

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Something must have been different in this case because the boy didn't die even with a neck restraint that lasted 17 minutes.

I would like to know how the judge ruled on the admissibility of this video. JMO

Also noteworthy, the use of force in that case was reported to supervisors and Chauvin was cleared.

 

[margarita25]

I totally agree!

It actually annoys me when people equate legally prescribed (and properly used) stimulants such as methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta), mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall), dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) and even methamphetamine (Desoxyn), with illegal meth or cocaine use.

(Yeah that whole thing was messy, imo, which is why I dbm’d)