GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why is it so important if he got Sarah into the car using his warrant card? It seems to have become a bit of a fixation, and going over and over and over it isn’t actually a discussion now. The fact remains, sadly, that he did get her in the car.
There isnt much to discuss :) All topics concerning this case have been discussed in hundreds posts over and over again. We will get sth new during sentencing I guess. But people want to talk and exchange views so bear with us:)
 
The A20 turns into national speed limit quite quickly - It's only a 10-15 minute drive at that time with lockdown.
I think even jumping out of a moving vehicle going 30 or 40 miles an hour would be life threatening. I can only think of one case where a victim escaped from a moving vehicle. She was in the trunk (boot) though, and the perp was pulling out of a gas station. She had managed to find the kidnappers latch, went rolling out onto the road and escaped with minor injuries. This was many years ago but I still remember watching the gas station footage on the news.

I think Couzens would have quickly restrained SE once he got her into the car. He could have used a knife or some other weapon to get her to cooperate. I doubt he would have taken any risks, considering how well he planned everything else.

IMO
 
I think even jumping out of a moving vehicle going 30 or 40 miles an hour would be life threatening. I can only think of one case where a victim escapeed from a moving vehicle. She was in the trunk (boot) though, and the perp was pulling out of a gas station. She had managed to find the kidnappers latch, went rolling out onto the road and escaped with minor injuries. This was many years ago but I still remember watching the gas station footage on the news.

I think Couzens would have quickly restrained SE once he got her into the car. He could have used a knife or some other weapon to get her to cooperate. I doubt he would have taken any risks, considering how well he planned everything else.

IMO
But pointing a knife/gun would distract him while driving. One hand on the driving wheel and constant glancing at S. Im still convinced of..... Im afraid to use this thing again.....You know - T****
 
Last edited:
But pointig a knife/gun would distract him while driving. One hand on the driving wheel and constant glancing at S. Im still convinced of..... Im afraid to use this thing again.....You know - T****
Yes, he could have even rendered her unconscious somehow. If he used a weapon to control her, he would only need to do use it initially in order to restrain her before driving off again. He could have kept it within his reach in case he needed it. He wouldn't have to point it at her while driving.

However he did it, he may never give police all the details. Since we haven't heard that he had any defensive wounds or scratches, he must have done a pretty good job making sure she couldn't fight back or escape. Imo
 
Yes, he could have even rendered her unconscious somehow. If he used a weapon to control her, he would only need to do use it initially in order to restrain her before driving off again. He could have kept it within his reach in case he needed it. He wouldn't have to point it at her while driving.

However he did it, he may never give police all the details. Since we haven't heard that he had any defensive wounds or scratches, he must have done a pretty good job making sure she couldn't fight back or escape. Imo
But how could he restrain her using 1 hand? (The 2nd hand wielding a knife) I mean I would start fighting like crazy even risking wounds - knowing once handcuffed - thats the end of me. And as you say he didnt have any scratches. So he must have tied/handcuffed her and gag her while S wasnt conscious. She saw his face so she must have known he would never let her go alive. Even causing a car accident by lunging at him would be better than what he did later. But when she regained her consciousness, she could do nothing - she was tied/handcuffed and gagged. RIP Sarah - my heart breaks for you.
 
Last edited:
But how could he restrain her using 1 hand? (The 2nd hand wielding a knife) I mean I would start fighting like crazy even risking wounds - knowing once handcuffed - thats the end of me. And as you say he didnt have any scratches. So he must have tied/handcuffed her and gag her while S wasnt conscious. She saw his face so she must have known he would never let her go alive. Even causing a car accident by lunging at him would be better than what he did later. But when she regained her consciousness, she could do nothing - she was tied/handcuffed and gagged. RIP Sarah - my heart breaks for you.

Sadly, most people aren't aware of the statistics around being taken to a 2nd location and how much that increases the likelihood of death. Even then, in a car seat you've got no way to dodge any weapon a perpetrator has and a lack of things around to use as a makeshift weapon yourself. If the other person outweights you by 50%+ and has a weapon that can be lethal it's just such bad odds.

She could have been planning to make a stand when the car stopped, she didn't have the hindsight that he was going to take her to the middle of no where where any attempt to run or call upon help would be futile. Heck, she could have tried grabbing the steering wheel for all we know. I doubt the roads were that busy during that period at night as you get further away from London. If I saw a car erratically on the motorway at that time I'd just assume the driver fell asleep/is drunk.

It's a truly awful situation and I hope she was alive/aware for as little of it as possible.
 
Sadly, most people aren't aware of the statistics around being taken to a 2nd location and how much that increases the likelihood of death. Even then, in a car seat you've got no way to dodge any weapon a perpetrator has and a lack of things around to use as a makeshift weapon yourself. If the other person outweights you by 50%+ and has a weapon that can be lethal it's just such bad odds.

She could have been planning to make a stand when the car stopped, she didn't have the hindsight that he was going to take her to the middle of no where where any attempt to run or call upon help would be futile. Heck, she could have tried grabbing the steering wheel for all we know. I doubt the roads were that busy during that period at night as you get further away from London. If I saw a car erratically on the motorway at that time I'd just assume the driver fell asleep/is drunk.

It's a truly awful situation and I hope she was alive/aware for as little of it as possible.
Yes - a second location means death.
 
there was a car driving erratically in front of me on a busy A road recently. I slowed and remained behind then car came to a stop, clearly broken down. I felt i wanted to help but some bully boy behind me flashed, beeped and could hear him yelling 'drive round'

As i drove round i saw a young woman and baby,girl was frantically trying to restart her car but it was unsafe for me to stop. This case with Sarah has made me ultra aware of whats happening around me. I'm also a bit reluctant to be out alone after dark or on dog walks in the woods
 
Not at that point.

I was answering how she was immobilised in the car. IMO at some point early on, she will have been attacked and restrained. As others have pointed out, the ruse may have worked for a time, but hardly once he started leaving London
I agree, I think by driving to a nearby secluded narrow back-street cul-de-sac (he may well know some from his work) or to an empty garage with an open door that he knew of (planned) nearby (round the back of the flats? or somewhere close) spinning a distracting story and acting very quickly.
 
I want to know if by pleading guilty, he will have likely swept any other crimes under the carpet and kept them from the public eye.

I don't know for sure, but I *think* the police would be obliged to investigate the potential of his involvement in other kinds if they have due cause to suspect this. Purely because there may be other people and families out there who are looking for closure and/or justice.
 
I don't know for sure, but I *think* the police would be obliged to investigate the potential of his involvement in other kinds if they have due cause to suspect this. Purely because there may be other people and families out there who are looking for closure and/or justice.
I read that Police is now checking unsolved crimes in the vicinity where WC lived.
 
Why is it so important if he got Sarah into the car using his warrant card?

I was surprised at this question, because IMO this is genuinely one of the most important elements of the case!

If he used his warrant card, it was a gross abuse of the power and trust given to him as a police officer. He used his designated sign of authority and safety to commit an unthinkable crime, and without it, may have been unable to do so.

Establishing if this happened could very well have repercussions for so many areas of policing and police policy in future. It essentially determines whether them his job have him the means to commit this crime or not. It adds a layer of potentially prosecutable offence to the whole ordeal - just as with teachers or doctors who abuse their position of trust with their students/patients.

Most of all I think it’s important to understand on a human level, because we’re all people who would mostly take a police ID at face value and do as we were told. This case reminds us all that police officers are not always on our side, and raises a lot of uncertainty and difficult questions that need to be answered, and deserved to be discussed.
 
[QUOTE="cestmoi, post: 16934369, member: 135374”] I want to know if by pleading guilty, he will have likely swept any other crimes under the carpet and kept them from the public eye.[/QUOTE]

As far as I understand, any other crimes he is suspected of will be investigated independently and charged individually too.
He cannot make a blanket “guilty” plea that covers more unless it’s under a specific plea-bargain arranged by the courts. That hasn’t been offered here, so he’s only pleading guilty to the crimes currently being publicly prosecuted.

I think it’s likely that any other crimes he may be suspected of will not be made public until after sentencing, to avoid influencing any potential judicial opinion. As he is innocent until proven guilty of any crime, including speculative previous ones, these cannot be used as part of the consideration when deciding his guilt and sentence in this current case.

So, if they’ve identified any previous offences, expect to hear about them *after* the September sentencing date, at the earliest.
 
But how could he restrain her using 1 hand? (The 2nd hand wielding a knife) I mean I would start fighting like crazy even risking wounds - knowing once handcuffed - thats the end of me. And as you say he didnt have any scratches. So he must have tied/handcuffed her and gag her while S wasnt conscious. She saw his face so she must have known he would never let her go alive. Even causing a car accident by lunging at him would be better than what he did later. But when she regained her consciousness, she could do nothing - she was tied/handcuffed and gagged. RIP Sarah - my heart breaks for you.

Exactly looking at this case now with the latest information from last week's details I believe he planned this sick attack down to every detail and I would say SE was restrained in the car he would not have taken any chances whilst driving out of London
 
I don’t think WC will ever tell the police how SE ended up in his car or if he does it will be an untruth. He knows full well if he used his warrant card to get her into his car ( which personally I think he did then very quickly incapacitated her somehow in the car ) on sentencing this will be so much worse for him. I think he will just make up some more BS and he will take it to his miserable grave. Also he has been in the police for many years. He could of taken any number of bits of clothing over the years from his colleagues - after all there are 30,000 plus serving officers so no doubt bits of kit do go missing. He could easily have been wearing some or all of it that particular night. It’s the stuff of your worst nightmare.
 
Sadly, most people aren't aware of the statistics around being taken to a 2nd location and how much that increases the likelihood of death.
.

JMO, MOO but I disagree. She was a young woman living in London just like me and I think she knew exactly the likelihood of what would happen once she realised he had duped her.

I think (or I hope) she would have fought hard. I know we all like to think about what we would do in that situation but honestly I would have the fact that if I knew no one was expecting me home that evening I knew the likelihood was it wasn’t going to be discovered until the next day, I would fight bloody hard which is why I think as soon as (or very soon after) he got her in the car he must have restrained her or incapacitated her in some manner. She seems like she would know it was fight or nothing especially if she was conscious as she was driven out of london. maybe I just watch too many crime docs though.

One thing I am interested in is the point above about how she shared a house with housemates. I used to share a house with housemates and we would generally know when to expect someone home/not although I realise this would not be the case for all houses especially if housemates etc were out. But my housemates often used to text me when they were on their way home so I definitely would have known before the next day if something was up - I am not blaming them etc but I am just wondering if they expected her home but thought perhaps she had visited her boyfriend?

another point that has been heavily debated is the use of a warrant card. I don’t think i am adding much to this other than giving MOO but I would never get in a car (especially unmarked) with someone who just told me they were a policeman, rather than actually prove it, so I think sadly he did dupe her. Re him asking to borrow a phone etc, I think most people on here don’t realise that most Londoners are actually really cautious, for example I have been asked by a stranger to borrow my phone before and I’ve said no/said I will dial for you what do you need/pointed them in the direction of the nearest shop etc. People (especially young females) are generally super cautious so I don’t think she would have just helped a stranger, I definitely think he presented himself to be a police officer but again JMO, MOO.

the missing phone also interests me because it makes me think there was something on there he did not want anyone to find? Perhaps she managed to take a film or something because he has admitted to raping/murdering - why not reveal where the phone is? Perhaps it is just another way of him showing power.

finally I hope for her sake she was incapacitated (is chloroform still a thing? Genuinely don’t know) while he was driving her out of london/raping her & eventually murdering her. Depending on the true story I don’t think he will ever reveal all the details as his children will eventually find out about it all one day so I don’t think he will give full details. But again could be a power thing as currently he is the only person with knowledge of the factual account of what happened.

I have not written on here for a long time but I was following along as it happened (I live relatively close to her and am also young and female) and I honestly cannot believe it has ended like this with a met officer in prison awaiting sentencing. I could not believe a hire care would have been used as I did not think they were particularly common in this country which I think shows his level of premeditation which I hope gets taken into account.
 
interesting nuggets, Saturday Times


Wayne Couzens: what ‘Mr Nice Guy’ did was not human, says wife

Wayne Couzens spent days planning to kidnap a woman off the street
Fiona Hamilton, David Brown, Ali Mitib
Saturday July 10 2021, 12.01am,



Wayne Couzens helped his brother and fellow police officer move house a week before he abducted Sarah Everard.

He was his normal self and chatted about his children, according to his father Ray, before “boom, out of nowhere, it happened”.

The Metropolitan Police has been examining whether he was linked to any other missing persons and unsolved sex crimes, but has not released its findings.

An investigative psychologist said he was likely to have offended before.

David Canter, who is best known for helping catch the serial killer John Duffy in the 1990s, said: “It is possible this is the first major thing [Couzens] has been involved in but it is very unusual for somebody to plan and think through something as extreme as this as the first serious crime they have committed.

“The fact that these indecent exposures were not followed up properly is an indication that having got away with that he would have felt more ready to go on to other sorts of activities.”

Before he pleaded guilty, Couzens told his defence barrister he felt genuine remorse, would bear the burden for the rest of his life and “I deserve to”.

The shock, horror and revulsion that Couzens’s family felt at his crimes was also experienced by friends and colleagues who thought they knew an average, nice guy.


It was part of Couzens’s carefully constructed image of a family man and dedicated officer, but beneath the surface there were indications of depravity.

Couzens used prostitutes at a downtrodden B&B in Dover, downloaded extreme *advertiser censored* and eluded capture by his policing colleagues despite allegedly indecently exposing himself in 2015 and again three days before he raped and murdered Everard.


Yet he has not given a full account of what happened with Everard, while his family have been told that he claims to have a split personality disorder.


Vitali Obukhov, his brother-in-law in Ukraine, told The Times: “A designated psychologist works with him. They are talking about a multiple personality disorder. He doesn’t remember what he was doing. And then, in some situations, he remembers and realises that he did it.”

Couzens’s Ukrainian wife Olena, 38, a laboratory manager who met him online in 2006, had to break the news to their children, aged ten and eight. She told Mail Online that her life had been shattered.

She said: “What Wayne did wasn’t human behaviour. He didn’t appear to be acting strangely. I can’t comprehend it because he never once previously showed any glimpse of violence, he was never that way. I’m just as puzzled as everyone else. I’m constantly asking myself, ‘where did I miss the signs?’ ”

Couzens’s father, who ran a garage in Dover where his son worked for 17 years before joining the police, said: “Nobody knows why he’s done it. If there was stress at work, he did not tell us. He was just an everyday guy.”

Couzens, who was interested in firearms and became an army reservist for two years, wanted to join the police because he was envious of his older brother. It took him years to pass the exams and he was first a special constable in Kent between 2006 and 2010. He joined the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, which guards nuclear sites, in 2011. He had to be developed vetted, the highest level of security clearance, for an initial posting at Sellafield in Cumbria before moving to Dungeness in Kent.

He transferred to the Met in September 2018 and in February 2020 moved to the diplomatic protection group on armed patrols of diplomatic premises, mainly embassies. He had moved to Deal, to be close to his mother who helped with childcare, and his family urged him not to join the Met because of the two-and-a-half-hour commute.

Obukhov said: “He is a normal, calm person. A good dad, a conversationalist. Polite, tactful, well-mannered. He is a good family man. He always played with children.”

But one person who went drinking with Couzens said: “He was a bit of an oddball. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but he was strange.”
 
Split personality disorder? Envious of his older brother? Well - curiouser and curiouser
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
168
Guests online
3,329
Total visitors
3,497

Forum statistics

Threads
592,539
Messages
17,970,694
Members
228,804
Latest member
MeanBean
Back
Top