GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[MsBetsy]

But how could he restrain her using 1 hand? (The 2nd hand wielding a knife) I mean I would start fighting like crazy even risking wounds - knowing once handcuffed - thats the end of me. And as you say he didnt have any scratches. So he must have tied/handcuffed her and gag her while S wasnt conscious. She saw his face so she must have known he would never let her go alive. Even causing a car accident by lunging at him would be better than what he did later. But when she regained her consciousness, she could do nothing - she was tied/handcuffed and gagged. RIP Sarah - my heart breaks for you.

He wouldn't have to use one hand. He could have just showed her a weapon and threatened to kill her if she didn't cooperate. Not every victim needs to be unconscious in order to zip tie or handcuff them. He was likely much stronger and could have easily overpowered her, even without a weapon. Maybe she did try to attack him and was badly injured. We'll probably never know.

I have no doubt she fought for her life, but unfortunately she never stood a chance against him.

IMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Split personality disorder? Envious of his older brother? Well - curiouser and curiouser

He's just coming up with rubbish he's seen in movies and TV shows. As far as I'm aware the whole "spit personality disorder" was discredited years ago. It doesn't really exist.

I agree it does seem like he was envious of others, his brother particularly. He seems to be a deeply insecure, inadequate kind of bloke.

 

[Lucy6226]

He's just coming up with rubbish he's seen in movies and TV shows. As far as I'm aware the whole "spit personality disorder" was discredited years ago. It doesn't really exist.

I agree it does seem like he was envious of others, his brother particularly. He seems to be a deeply insecure, inadequate kind of bloke.

I can assure you dissociative identity disorder (previously known as multiple personality disorder) is very real!

However, I would wager that WC does not have it and is just a psychopathic sexual predator.

 

[Beans]

I think he perhaps was so fixated on the fantasy of abduction and rape that he just maybe hadn’t given full consideration to what he’d do after he’d killed someone. His purchases and strange movements after the fact suggest he wasn’t carrying out a particularly well planned set of actions. I don’t doubt he had been planning to take someone, I do question whether or not he initially intended to do as much as he ended up doing that night. There could have been a reason he was triggered to pursue a course of action that wasn’t a fully formed plan, basically.

I don’t think they knew each other at all, and I don’t believe he had been stalking her or anything like that. If he had been, I don’t think he would have chosen that particular place to stop and abduct her. There were ‘better’ locations on the route she was taking home.

 

[Newthoughts]

Regarding getting her into the car - he was responsible for protection of MPs and high status people. Only a few police officers are licensed to use firearms and even amongst those to that are - shootings are rare. Especially if threats are unarmed. Thankfully our police forces rarely shoot people. It is a matter of last resort and leads to prolonged investigations.

So it's not unreasonable to assume he'd had a lot of training in restraining and incapacitating suspects quickly. Initially trick her by using his warrant card - as per bus cam one showing nothing more than two people by a car. Restrain and get her into the car by force easily before bus cam two.

 

[Dotta]

Regarding getting her into the car - he was responsible for protection of MPs and high status people. Only a few police officers are licensed to use firearms and even amongst those to that are - shootings are rare. Especially if threats are unarmed. Thankfully our police forces rarely shoot people. It is a matter of last resort and leads to prolonged investigations.

So it's not unreasonable to assume he'd had a lot of training in restraining and incapacitating suspects quickly. Initially trick her by using his warrant card - as per bus cam one showing nothing more than two people by a car. Restrain and get her into the car by force easily before bus cam two.

True. I bet he had antiterrorist training and knows many tricks.

 

[Dotta]

So... According to The Times report a poster sent - WC claims he suffers from a split personality disorder when 1 personality doesnt know/remember what the other personality did. How convenient!!! Isnt it a serious illness? And how come he wasnt diagnosed before entering LE?

 

[cestmoi]

He may have a very difficult time convincing anyone that he has MPD/DID if he has not experienced significant childhood neglect or trauma, impacting on his early brain development and responses to threats/stress.

Causes

I don't know much about his childhood or his family, only what has already been reported, which seemed like a fairly healthy and normal family situation. No signs of early neglect or trauma from what has been reported so far (which is limited at this stage). I'm confident he is undergoing significant psychological/psychiatric assessment so I think we will get an answer re: any mental health diagnoses eventually.

I am fascinated by the social history in this case - what has made WC who he is, who actually is he, and thus the clues it gives about why this happened. (Easy for me to assume "psychopath" or think about how evil he is, but that's not explaining why he is evil.)

 

[Sherlockhames]

So... According to The Times report a poster sent - WC claims he suffers from a split personality disorder when 1 personality doesnt know/remember what the other personality did. How convenient!!! Isnt it a serious illness? And how come he wasnt diagnosed before entering LE?

That’s interesting. Although from his own defence perspective why, then, make up the ridiculous story about taking her in a car to repay some form of debt if he is genuine defence is one of deniability via route of and alternate personality perpetrating the crime.

Either he remembers it - in which case he has no excuse for not telling the police what happened.

Or, he has some form of DID but then why make up the detailed story to cover a set of events he supposedly had no memory of.

Also, I would have thought the “alter” who supposedly perpetrated the crime would have appeared to police/his lawyer by now?

I’m sorry, I don’t buy it. I get DID exists (and is a truly extraordinary manifestation of the brain protecting us from horrific childhood trauma) but I can’t see the fact pattern described being explained by multiple personalities - it seems too ordered (although also not very well thought through in terms of cctv potential, his phone movements etc).

Although does anyone on here have experience of DID eg clinically through work/study? Interested in knowing how, if there are rare “alters” who commit crime, is it likely the other personalities are aware? Or are they literally completely different? Or is that way to simplistic a question for WS on a Friday morning?

(For the record - i think he might have some form of mental disorder, just one that in no way mitigates his crime. He knows what he did was wrong, and knew what he planned to do was wrong. So much so he went to great lengths to conceal it afterwards).

 

[Dotta]

It reminds me of Ted Bundy and his dark "entity" "compelling" him to kill. But Bundy remembered perfectly what he did.

 

[cestmoi]

In my opinion this looks more like a mental/personality issue causing addictive or compulsive behaviours but I can't presume to know. It's my guess that he does have at least a couple of separate personas but that flipping between them is more of an intentional act.

I have worked with young people and adults with DID - a limited number, but these did indeed correspond with childhood abuse/trauma, and there was some recollection of what happened with most of them. But this isn't prescriptive of everyone with DID. People in a fugue state are more likely to present as "confused" than ordered.

 

[Dotta]

In my opinion this looks more like a mental/personality issue causing addictive or compulsive behaviours but I can't presume to know. It's my guess that he does have at least a couple of separate personas but that flipping between them is more of an intentional act.

I have worked with young people and adults with DID - a limited number, but these did indeed correspond with childhood abuse/trauma, and there was some recollection of what happened with most of them. But this isn't prescriptive of everyone with DID. People in a fugue state are more likely to present as "confused" than ordered.

Well, WC isn't of sound mind - that's for sure!

 

[Nikynoo]

I think he perhaps was so fixated on the fantasy of abduction and rape that he just maybe hadn’t given full consideration to what he’d do after he’d killed someone. His purchases and strange movements after the fact suggest he wasn’t carrying out a particularly well planned set of actions. I don’t doubt he had been planning to take someone, I do question whether or not he initially intended to do as much as he ended up doing that night. There could have been a reason he was triggered to pursue a course of action that wasn’t a fully formed plan, basically.

I don’t think they knew each other at all, and I don’t believe he had been stalking her or anything like that. If he had been, I don’t think he would have chosen that particular place to stop and abduct her. There were ‘better’ locations on the route she was taking home.

I agree with you. I also think he 'arrested' Sarah to get her into the car. Possibly used the excuse that he was a lone patrol and therefore had to handcuff her.

 

[Nikynoo]

It reminds me of Ted Bundy and his dark "entity" "compelling" him to kill. But Bundy remembered perfectly what he did.

and Ted Bundy liked what he did too!

 

[Dotta]

and Ted Bundy liked what he did too!

Absolutely! I still remember his silly grin when he was being interviewed in prison. Or his behaviour in court when he was acting as his own defence.

 

[Nikynoo]

He may have a very difficult time convincing anyone that he has MPD/DID if he has not experienced significant childhood neglect or trauma, impacting on his early brain development and responses to threats/stress.

Causes

I don't know much about his childhood or his family, only what has already been reported, which seemed like a fairly healthy and normal family situation. No signs of early neglect or trauma from what has been reported so far (which is limited at this stage). I'm confident he is undergoing significant psychological/psychiatric assessment so I think we will get an answer re: any mental health diagnoses eventually.

I am fascinated by the social history in this case - what has made WC who he is, who actually is he, and thus the clues it gives about why this happened. (Easy for me to assume "psychopath" or think about how evil he is, but that's not explaining why he is evil.)

Would a trauma include traumas in later life vs childhood? For example, if someone found out that their parentage wasn't what they thought it was, thereby breaking the foundation of beliefs formed in childhood?

I'm not saying that this is the case here, BUT, something is not quite right. There were press reports just after arrest, stating that there had been a close family member death and he had taken a substantial period of time off as sick leave.

 

[Dotta]

Would a trauma include traumas in later life vs childhood? For example, if someone found out that their parentage wasn't what they thought it was, thereby breaking the foundation of beliefs formed in childhood?

I'm not saying that this is the case here, BUT, something is not quite right. There were press reports just after arrest, stating that there had been a close family member death and he had taken a substantial period of time off as sick leave.

His psych problems started waaay before. Even as as a schoolboy he was perceived as a bully enjoying sb else's pain.

 

[cestmoi]

Would a trauma include traumas in later life vs childhood? For example, if someone found out that their parentage wasn't what they thought it was, thereby breaking the foundation of beliefs formed in childhood?

I'm not saying that this is the case here, BUT, something is not quite right. There were press reports just after arrest, stating that there had been a close family member death and he had taken a substantial period of time off as sick leave.

I don't feel qualified to give a firm answer (perhaps we have a psychiatrist somewhere in the ranks?) but an argument might be made for something like that. There's a lot of variance in people's different experiences of DID. But I couldn't say how commonly it is linked to adult trauma.

From what I've read of WC it seems like stress may be a trigger point for him. I would not be surprised to learn that various stressful events were happening in the lead-up to these crimes. A death in the family, a break in his controlled routine (lockdown, time off work), combined with reduced ways to cope with stress (e.g. difficulty getting a sex worker, or sex workers no longer being "enough" to meet his needs?) - I suspect these are factors. We will see.

 

[Nikynoo]

I am not sure the sex worker angle adds up either (well, not in hotels anyway). Were they not all closed from the winter lockdown?

 

[Nikynoo]

I don't feel qualified to give a firm answer (perhaps we have a psychiatrist somewhere in the ranks?) but an argument might be made for something like that. There's a lot of variance in people's different experiences of DID. But I couldn't say how commonly it is linked to adult trauma.

From what I've read of WC it seems like stress may be a trigger point for him. I would not be surprised to learn that various stressful events were happening in the lead-up to these crimes. A death in the family, a break in his controlled routine (lockdown, time off work), combined with reduced ways to cope with stress (e.g. difficulty getting a sex worker, or sex workers no longer being "enough" to meet his needs?) - I suspect these are factors. We will see.

Thanks for the reply. It will be interesting to see whether we get to find out what those factors were.