Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[Herat]

I read the report that a human skull, with some hair, and a second bone were found near each other.

The exact origin of the second bone is not specified, nor has it been conclusively identified as human. It is reasonable to assume is it related to the skull (such as a cervical vertebral body).

But I don't read the report as saying there were any more than 2 pieces found.

I am presuming the clothing / pack / shoes / poles / and other remains are farther up that same slope just east of the Port de la Glere, or possibly nearby at about the same level of the mountain. Possibly stuck behind a rock or a hollow. I have to think the place has been swarming with LE. It really shouldn't be too long before something else is found.

 

[Jmoose]

Very interesting that no clothing or belongings were found in the area. I'm trying to understand what that means. Were parts of her body carried to that location by vultures? Why wouldn't some clothing be with her bones? There must be another location where there are more bones and her equipment.

I wondered about this, too. What is the likelihood that these things might be found? How awful for her loved ones.

 

[Herat]

I wondered about this, too. What is the likelihood that these things might be found? How awful for her loved ones.

I would have thought the DNA results would have been completed by now.

 

[Jmoose]

I disagree. People don't criticize victims of murder because of the enormous expense of the subsequent police investigation and trials. Some of those people were out walking alone after dark, unprepared for being kidnapped by a murderer, some went back home after telling their partner they were planning to divorce them, some were even breaking Covid rules!

ETA, every SAR group I know of depends on volunteers, who choose to dedicate themselves to wilderness search and rescue because they know, it could be them in trouble out there. No one is perfectly safe on a wilderness adventure, lots of things can go wrong in Human vs Nature. IMO that's a big part of the appeal of going out there, rather than staying home.

This really is not at all the same thing, unless ED was actually murdered, and in my opinion that’s pretty unlikely. Murder is totally at the feet of the murderer, and not the victim, even if something they have done could be seen as a contributor. Accidents are also not the fault of the victim-it’s an accident. There isn’t enough information to know what happened to her, and probably won’t be. She was in a situation where something bad could happen to her (closed trails, coming on to Winter, possibly but not absolutely poorly provisioned). This is not victim shaming. Call it “trying to make sense of”.

 

[windrower]

Without knowing the facts, this is perhaps a tad judgemental don’t you think? There could have been all sorts of reasons for DC being the sole author. ED may not have actually wanted to be a co-author, for example. Sorry but it feels unfair to me to make such assumptions.

Well, drat. I do so like to make assumptions.

I'd like to hear more about the "all sorts of reasons for DC being the sole author." Because even the reason you mention, that ED may not have wanted to be a co-author, while possible, is not probable, to me.

I don't know anyone who would not want to be named as an author on books about her (or his) life. So something feels off, to me, about the books.

Turn Left At Mont Blanc:
One Couple's Inspirational, Funny & Brutally Honest Account Of Their Adventure Around Europe's Highest Mountain

A collection of 5 children's stories inspired by the true story of our finding our lovely lost little Leela and giving her a home....

What came next was a story of love triumphing over circumstances as they turned their lives upside down to care for the pups, ultimately taking to the road with five dogs in a motorhome.

Love, Fluff & Chasing Butterflies is a collection of uplifting, insightful and honest poems inspired by their experiences together.

On all of these books, DC is listed as the sole author. IMO, that's a problem.

So while we're on the subject, I'll bring up the authorship as published on the puppy and dog books--listed as "Dan Colegate, Esther Dingley, Kim Prior (who is the illustrator). DC first, every time. Alphabetically, which is what you do when the authors don't live together, when they are academic fellows or writing buddies, or some such thing. But ED and DC were in a long term, marriage-like relationship, and that usually portends, in the publishing world, a "ladies first" kind of deal.

IMO

I'm just bringing to the table a view from my experience, and pondering the implications as per @otto, who wondered if ED felt she needed to prove something. I'm thinking maybe she did.

 

[otto]

Well, drat. I do so like to make assumptions.

I'd like to hear more about the "all sorts of reasons for DC being the sole author." Because even the reason you mention, that ED may not have wanted to be a co-author, while possible, is not probable, to me.

I don't know anyone who would not want to be named as an author on books about her (or his) life. So something feels off, to me, about the books.

Turn Left At Mont Blanc:
One Couple's Inspirational, Funny & Brutally Honest Account Of Their Adventure Around Europe's Highest Mountain

A collection of 5 children's stories inspired by the true story of our finding our lovely lost little Leela and giving her a home....

What came next was a story of love triumphing over circumstances as they turned their lives upside down to care for the pups, ultimately taking to the road with five dogs in a motorhome.

Love, Fluff & Chasing Butterflies is a collection of uplifting, insightful and honest poems inspired by their experiences together.

On all of these books, DC is listed as the sole author. IMO, that's a problem.

So while we're on the subject, I'll bring up the authorship as published on the puppy and dog books--listed as "Dan Colegate, Esther Dingley, Kim Prior (who is the illustrator). DC first, every time. Alphabetically, which is what you do when the authors don't live together, when they are academic fellows or writing buddies, or some such thing. But ED and DC were in a long term, marriage-like relationship, and that usually portends, in the publishing world, a "ladies first" kind of deal.

IMO

I'm just bringing to the table a view from my experience, and pondering the implications as per @otto, who wondered if ED felt she needed to prove something. I'm thinking maybe she did.

I'm 100% with you on this. When I first looked at the books, I was really surprised that their story only lists Dan as the author. I want to believe that they were equal partners in all ways, but that is one area where they were not equal. I also wonder what she was doing while he was writing books. That takes time with lots of re-writing. In one book, she's listed as editor. How could she edit a story about their lives without adding her own ideas? I do wonder whether she felt that he was a superior hiker and she wanted to demonstrate that she's an expert in her own right. That could explain undertaking a more difficult solo hike on a closed trail during Winter.

 

[RickshawFan]

They've obviously been given access to phones, computers, message histories etc. If you are saying you doubt that then you are maybe straying into dodgy territory as far as this website is concerned. MOO

I don't recall LE saying they have been given access to phones, computers, or message histories from DC. Could you maybe cite one of the LE statements as a reminder?
I don't recall anything to this effect in DC's write-up, either, but the one I'd really look for would be LE's, since it would be verified.

 

[RickshawFan]

Well, drat. I do so like to make assumptions.

I'd like to hear more about the "all sorts of reasons for DC being the sole author." Because even the reason you mention, that ED may not have wanted to be a co-author, while possible, is not probable, to me.

I don't know anyone who would not want to be named as an author on books about her (or his) life. So something feels off, to me, about the books.

Turn Left At Mont Blanc:
One Couple's Inspirational, Funny & Brutally Honest Account Of Their Adventure Around Europe's Highest Mountain

A collection of 5 children's stories inspired by the true story of our finding our lovely lost little Leela and giving her a home....

What came next was a story of love triumphing over circumstances as they turned their lives upside down to care for the pups, ultimately taking to the road with five dogs in a motorhome.

Love, Fluff & Chasing Butterflies is a collection of uplifting, insightful and honest poems inspired by their experiences together.

On all of these books, DC is listed as the sole author. IMO, that's a problem.

So while we're on the subject, I'll bring up the authorship as published on the puppy and dog books--listed as "Dan Colegate, Esther Dingley, Kim Prior (who is the illustrator). DC first, every time. Alphabetically, which is what you do when the authors don't live together, when they are academic fellows or writing buddies, or some such thing. But ED and DC were in a long term, marriage-like relationship, and that usually portends, in the publishing world, a "ladies first" kind of deal.

IMO

I'm just bringing to the table a view from my experience, and pondering the implications as per @otto, who wondered if ED felt she needed to prove something. I'm thinking maybe she did.

I'm so glad you're bringing this up. I very much associate the dogs with ED and assumed she'd be the lead writer. I have a feeling she was a good writer, too. I'm quite flabbergasted at the clips upthread that show the book covers and don't give her credit. It reminds me of the stuff we had to go through in the 60's.

 

[RickshawFan]

Murder and a hiking accident are different things, and whether the SAR are paid or volunteers doesn't matter. A person's preparedness always becomes part of the discussion -I've read enough accounts of hiking and climbing incidents to know. That discussion is always there if there's any chance that the person was unprepared. Esther certainly hasn't been targeted in that sense.

In fact, some of the best hikers, climbers, mountaineers in the world discuss exactly that, and publicly, in the event of a mountain/trail accident, even if it's a friend or associate. It's very common. For a reason.

I'm so glad you said this. The details like preparedness, risk-taking, supplies, apparel, map reading, safety precautions, lack of real experience, overestimating one's abilities.... all of those things go into RESCUE reports. Yep, SAR forays are written up and studied. People go over this with a fine-tooth comb. That's how best-practices come into being. That's why the "10 essentials" are a thing. That's why ranger walks at Bryce require lug-soled boots. That's why the Grand Canyon has big signs with the 10 essentials so hikers don't die. All of these come from learning what went wrong.
Around here, SAR has been known to publish in the papers if the rescuee was wearing jeans. Maybe it'll save someone else from having a fatal accident.
When you go out with an experienced group with experienced leaders, they go over and over this stuff. A hike with these groups is a "learn while walking" event. You don't get to go unless you have the right stuff, not in the sense of the "right brand", but in the sense of "it addresses the risks satisfactorily." The Sierra Club even used to check your packs.
One person messes up, and it risks everyone else.

So you can see, here are some SAR accident reports for the Oregon Cascades. There are maybe 100 reports here. Note: this is what gets written, not what's discussed, which is a whole lot more. Fatal Mt. Hood accident: Final report and analysis


I got reading that specific report, and here are 2 paragraphs in the analysis that I believe may well be germane here:

1. Steep snow slopes demand respect. Steep snow slopes hold dangers that are hidden to the uninformed. Falling on a steep hard snow slope is like falling off a cliff of similar elevation, the speed of falling only slowed slightly by the friction of clothing and gear. The falling climber accelerates to maximum velocity in moments. Experience tells us that simply sitting on angled hard snow can lead to a catastrophic slide in moments. Try this yourself on a short steep slope of hard snow with a clear run out.

2. Adhesion to the snow from boots alone is related to the kicked steps in the snow. If the boot sole is soft, the boot may not be kicked forcefully into the snow. Also, the sole may bend, contributing to sliding out of the snow step as the boot is weighted. Sometimes, only the hard edge of the boot can be kicked into hard snow. Crampons, properly used, can mitigate this risk (and crampons were worn in this case).

 

[Grouse]

I don't recall LE saying they have been given access to phones, computers, or message histories from DC. Could you maybe cite one of the LE statements as a reminder?
I don't recall anything to this effect in DC's write-up, either, but the one I'd really look for would be LE's, since it would be verified.

You really don't have to look that far, it's in the dossier. Up to you whether you choose to believe it or not, personally I have no reason not to even though some seem to regard it with suspicion.

"The full transcripts and screenshots of all communication have been provided to the police in both France and Spain. " --> https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere else as well that LE had had access to computers etc as well (and why wouldn't they have?) but I honestly can't be bothered to search for that right now.

 

[RedHaus]

I am going to try to step to a different level than the micro debates going on right now... having fun catching up though. I am convinced we are dissecting so many disparate facts in such incredible detail because this case appears uniquely to possess so many facts. Its not because we are judging dear ED but rather, we are striving to help solve the case.

And perhaps we are also preparing for a future when the truth reveals itself so we're equipped to understand the "why".

I suspect many here of have exceptionally analytic minds that thrive on connecting dots, finding systems within data, finding solutions, questioning information, testing assumptions, and learning. Or just be fascinated with the case. It is a also a complex web of mathematical, spatial, technical, social, psychological, anthropological, wilderness survival, etc.

For me personally, I fit that profile to a tee. And I so hope our work here helps in some way for ED, DC, her family, us.

 

[Seni]

I disagree. People don't criticize victims of murder because of the enormous expense of the subsequent police investigation and trials. Some of those people were out walking alone after dark, unprepared for being kidnapped by a murderer, some went back home after telling their partner they were planning to divorce them, some were even breaking Covid rules!

ETA, every SAR group I know of depends on volunteers, who choose to dedicate themselves to wilderness search and rescue because they know, it could be them in trouble out there. No one is perfectly safe on a wilderness adventure, lots of things can go wrong in Human vs Nature. IMO that's a big part of the appeal of going out there, rather than staying home.

The big difference is that Esther was supposedly "prepared", the counter examples you provide are of a totally contrary nature. I have to go with the very experienced hikers opinions on here and my own, albeit not expert, used to preparing for and dealing with expeditions. I don't think anyone is criticising, just lamenting what seems a lack of precautions.

Having said that I am not convinced that an accident ocurred.

 

[Seni]

Thank you for this post Windrower and also to Otto for previous. Yes, it makes uncomfortable reading, totally IMO but I feel that Esther was tired of Dan. Interesting to see @stmarysmead 's take on this.

rsabbm

So maybe ED was trying to prove something.

As an author, I am surprised and saddened and angry that ED was not considered a co-author of the travel and hiking books.

Talk about being diminished and minimized.

I don’t care who thought what or what rationale was given for the choice to put only DC’s name as author, it isn’t right. ED walked/hiked/traveled the same miles he did, and I find it extremely hard to believe she had absolutely no contribution to the writing aspect of their endeavors.

Actually, even if she had no input as a writer, the mere fact of the shared experiences SHOULD have been enough for her to get author credit.

I also don’t care to hear that she “agreed” to the single author designation. Because I know how some such “agreements” are reached.

The books were self-published, so there is really no excuse for ED to have not been given credit as an author. ED and DC had full control over how the books look and are presented. (Or was it just DC who had control?)

(Snipped)

Maybe ED felt DC was dismissive of her contributions to their lifestyle documentation. It feels that way to me with just his name as author on the books.
(snipped)

 

[Herat]

Anyway food -the lack thereof; the asking other people for; the seemingly intentional reliance of others on for access to; all do provoke lots of questions as to her food preparedness on this particular hike. However, it seems there are two camps here which will never converge: Those who think Esther was woefully unprepared, and those who think she was likely well prepared.

I don't have hiking experience, but my take on Esther's hike is that she was quite unprepared, sadly, leadership classes or no. Everything points to very little food (Have we ever heard of her carrying extra food? Emergency rations?) very little, even if good, gear; virtually no emergency equipment in the form of signalling/locating devices, first aid gear, etc., all while hiking alone on essentially closed trails in late November in the Pyrenees.

As a chronic overpacker, I always admire those who can really rationally trim their pack weight down to a bare minimum:

1. It means they have found the Holy Grail of equipment/ shoes/ food/ bag/ tent. A trillion $$$$ industry is build on this, alone.

2. The less you carry on your back the more lithe and energentic you are, or at least that's what the Legend of the Perfect Trip Pack tells us.

As a charter member of Overpackers Annonymous, I suffer greatly the "what ifs?", the "I really like this ____ (name item)", "I read in ______ (Backpacker mag, cool guy blog, REI promotion) that I really need this".

I know people that weigh their packs and clothes i, and argue about whether their weight budget allows for one Ace bandage. (not kidding). Not just the sensible Rick Steeves packing bit, but the hyper stuff where you put toothpaste in a baggie because the tube weighs too much and you cut the handle off the toothbrush.

And, she really had educated herself in the Mountain course and made a considered investment in her basic equipment and it seemed to suit her fine, including her food. I just think that she was playing the odds of better weather conditions, abundant generous aquaintances on the trip, winter shelters, and her luck ran out.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Stop the individual and/or collective personalizing and back and forth bickering in this thread. Discuss the case instead of each other or what you think others should or should not be saying.

If you feel something is a violation of TOS, Report it without debating and bickering about it. If you just don't like what they have to say, state your opinion respectfully once and move on.

 

[RickshawFan]

As a chronic overpacker, I always admire those who can really rationally trim their pack weight down to a bare minimum:

1. It means they have found the Holy Grail of equipment/ shoes/ food/ bag/ tent. A trillion $$$$ industry is build on this, alone.

2. The less you carry on your back the more lithe and energentic you are, or at least that's what the Legend of the Perfect Trip Pack tells us.

As a charter member of Overpackers Annonymous, I suffer greatly the "what ifs?", the "I really like this ____ (name item)", "I read in ______ (Backpacker mag, cool guy blog, REI promotion) that I really need this".

I know people that weigh their packs and clothes i, and argue about whether their weight budget allows for one Ace bandage. (not kidding). Not just the sensible Rick Steeves packing bit, but the hyper stuff where you put toothpaste in a baggie because the tube weighs too much and you cut the handle off the toothbrush.

And, she really had educated herself in the Mountain course and made a considered investment in her basic equipment and it seemed to suit her fine, including her food. I just think that she was playing the odds of better weather conditions, abundant generous aquaintances on the trip, winter shelters, and her luck ran out.

I am a person that weighed everything. I found, once you get used to it, you can jettison a whole lot. I never had a spare set of clothes for instance. No use in having 2 sets of stinky clothes. I always carried a true crime book, though, and at least 3 canisters of fuel so I could make endless cups of tea for 4 days. My weight sans food and water was about 22lbs.
ED and DC had very high quality equipment for summer. For an appropriate November Pyrenées list, this would be right. You searched for Kit - One Woman Walks Note this is for the same month ED was hiking.
Note the 2 sleeping bags plus silk liner plus insulated mattress; and the paper map, which you absolutely cannot leave home without and be safe. Then there’s the first aid kit and plenty of socks. These were not on ED’S pack contents list in the dossier. This blogger sacrificed a stove (this wouldn’t be safe for me), but took a serious pillow and silk sleeping bag liner. Those don’t do anything for me.

 

[Steve13]

T

Regarding the text messages that Esther's partner shared publicly, I suspect that the content that he did not include is of a personal nature - unrelated to her route. I don't think he withheld anything relevant to her planned hike.

Thanks for this, Otto. I've no idea, tbh. All I can say is that confirmatory sources are essential, and it's important to take note of evidence which contradicts a single source or narrator. All narrators are unreliable to some degree, because they're human.

 

[ZaZara]

Disparition d’Esther Dingley : "Il faut aussi de la chance pour retrouver la personne"

Disappearance of Esther Dingley: "You need some luck to find the person"

Patrick Lagleize, a young retiree and president of the Luchon mountain office and president of the Compagnie des Guides des Pyrénées, spent his entire career in the high mountain police squad, the PGHM. He knows the Port de la Glère well. He carried out several interventions there during his career as a rescuer, even if today he doesn't frequent it much.

Is this the end of the story of this disappearance?

We have to be careful and wait for the results of the DNA analysis. Having said that, I would like to point out, as a former rescuer, that in France we have the best mountain rescuers. The people of Luchon have invested a lot in the search since the announcement of Esther's disappearance last November. When there is a disappearance in the mountains and the victim is not found, it is because we have not been able to find a coherent route. You also have to rely on luck to find the person, often several months or even years later. For Esther, the area was inspected many times.

Does the location seem logical in relation to her itinerary?

The Port de la Glère was probably the gateway for her to return to Spain. A "Port" in the Pyrenees is a passage. She may have wanted to go that way when she saw the path from the Port du Vénasque... She may have crossed by the ridges, it's difficult to say, or she may have taken the wrong path... But what I notice is that we can't find the victims in the mountains if we don't understand the logic of their progress. I am thinking of the disappearance of Gatien Loison. The guy was a seasoned hiker, a real strong man, but he didn't practice mountaineering. He fell while trying to go climbing. There was no logic to it. Hence the difficulty in finding him. Afterwards, unfortunately, you have to rely on luck. For Gatien, this happened to be a hiker who got lost, found some bones and raised the alert. In this case, I think it was animals that transported the remains, which we think were human. But in my opinion, Esther didn't fall very far from there.

Do you know the place?

Yes, I did some rescues there when I was with the PGHM. Once, we had to recover people who had got lost. They were stuck on a rocky bar. If they had moved a few centimetres, it would have been very serious. We were also called to another person who had fallen. There, the outcome was much less favourable. The port de la Glère, at an altitude of around 2,200 metres, is a well-known place for hikers. You can lose your way and slip on the loose scree. I don't go there too much these days because I tend to climb with my clients and it's not a place for that. That Esther fell down there, according to logic, is unfortunately quite plausible.


BBM

 

[Tanzanite]

I woke up thinking about ED. She must have been so frightened at some point - whether she fell, slipped on that scree or holed up knowing the weather/darkness/something else was an insurmountable challenge for her. She seemed to work hard to nurture a positivity of spirit and I really, really hope that sustained her a little, giving her a sliver of hope that she would somehow wake up and make it to safety the next day or be found.

I feel so sad for her. Obvious, I know, but I'm really feeling it today.

 

[mrjitty]

But what I notice is that we can't find the victims in the mountains if we don't understand the logic of their progress.

RSBM

This has always been my problem with the alternative theories.

Once people are off the trail - often unintentionally, the potential area to be searched is huge.