GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[sunshineray]

After tbe murders, though, their clothes, shoes, etc would be splattered with blood. If the kids were at Peterson Rd with a babysitter, they would have needed to clean up a little before going home.

Jumpsuits? Burn them somewhere remote and bury the burn pit?

 

[Dudly]

Jumpsuits? Burn them somewhere remote and bury the burn pit?

I thought maybe disposable paper painter’s coveralls...

 

[NWLady]

I believe you're right about not knowing which gun shot KR. I don't recall or have in my notes any information as to what caliber was used.

I base my conclusion of only three guns used for the murders based on this: At JW confession hearing , AC said JW gave them info on the weapons used and vehicles used. In the supplemental discovery 6/21/21, there are three guns and a knife listed and there are two vehicles listed. I am assuming that--since AC only listed three guns and two vehicles in that supplemental discovery document--those were the only guns and vehicles utilized. As for the guns, I back this up based on Agent Scheiderer's testimony at GW4 bond hearing 8/31/20. He stated three calibers of firearms--.22, .40 and .30 caliber.

Granted, there could have been a fourth gun that was the same caliber as one of the three specifically mentioned (.22, .40 or .30). But if that were the case, I think AC/Agent Scheiderer would have addressed that issue at the bond hearing and stated there were four weapons.

All JMO.

Link to confession hearing video. At 1:49:43 AC says some of the information provided by JW was new. "In addition to the information that Jake provided us, what he told us led us to discover some evidence that had yet to be recovered, specifically the weapons that were used in these offenses."

6/21/21 supplemental discovery:
Under DNA: knife from concrete 5/14/21
Under latent prints: knife from concrete /14/21
Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford F-150 pictures
GMC Sierra pics

Just jumping off your post -

I have wondered what JW and his attorney were looking at. They both have the look as if they'd just seen a ghost or possibly something unexpected? Any thoughts?

TIA

 

[Covert Operative]

JMO, I don't think any of the male Wagners would have brought AW as back up when going to Chris Sr's place, especially after he had just beat up Billy Wagner a week or so prior.

I'd have to go back in our posts from that time, but I don't recall Gary Rhoden's dad saying they found any 22 cartridges at Chris Sr's home. Some of his remarks were later edited out of the interview video, probably to protect the case.

JMO, its more likely it was Billy and GW4 at Chris Sr's. We know Gary was most likely shot with GW4's weapon. That's in the preliminary autopsy report and IIRC, Agent Scheiderer's testimony.

IIRC, there are no details available yet for weapons used at Frankie's place or at Dana's.

In Bond hearing it was said that DR,HR,CRjr, FR,HG were all shot with a 22 caliber. I think the assumption is that was JW gun so he shot those victims. He also confessed to killing 5 so it seems logical they are the 5 he killed but we do not know that for sure.

 

[ohioexpat63]

Just curious, why do you feel that the W4 went to FWF after these murders? Honestly, knowing those backroads, they would have been ahead to have went back to Peterson Rd. Far less chance of detection IMO and JMO.
Maybe I missed out on this information being released though?? Thanks.

It's just a WAG. After the Ws were arrested I felt someone had to watch the kids. I figured great granny was the safest bet. It doesn't mean she knew what was happening.

They could have easily went back to Peterson rd. I guess we will find out soon enough

 

[IType]

Just jumping off your post -

I have wondered what JW and his attorney were looking at. They both have the look as if they'd just seen a ghost or possibly something unexpected? Any thoughts?

TIA

If this was during AC's comments at the end of the hearing, I didn't notice anything about JW or his attorney because I was focused on AC. Let me know what general things AC was talking about so I can find the right spot in the video, and I'll watch it again.

 

[Ann99]

Does anyone think a second look at KR autopsy may yield information we had skimmed over or overlooked?

I will read thru it again if someone can provide a link or download.

This is what I have been thinking since mentions of DS.

DS indicated he looked up and saw blood in KR eye.
DS did not seem to indicate massive injuries although he did say a lot of blood.

DS spoke to Daily Mail.

Ohio family massacre victim had $1k in cash strewn at his feet and was shot in the head | Daily Mail Online

This article surely would have sensationalized any injury info they could grasp onto.
Thats what DailMailUK does.
I seriously doubt the amount of $$ referred to in this article.

I hate thinking of this, but I also feel KR deserves a little more attention.

 

[Betty P]

In Bond hearing it was said that DR,HR,CRjr, FR,HG were all shot with a 22 caliber. I think the assumption is that was JW gun so he shot those victims. He also confessed to killing 5 so it seems logical they are the 5 he killed but we do not know that for sure.

That sounds about right, then. I'm guessing he was with AW. IIRC, there were bloody shoeprints from the Walmart shoes found at Chris, Sr's place, so that sounds like Billy and GW4. That leaves one of them to have killed KR.

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone think a second look at KR autopsy may yield information we had skimmed over or overlooked?

I will read thru it again if someone can provide a link or download.

This is what I have been thinking since mentions of DS.

DS indicated he looked up and saw blood in KR eye.
DS did not seem to indicate massive injuries although he did say a lot of blood.

DS spoke to Daily Mail.

Ohio family massacre victim had $1k in cash strewn at his feet and was shot in the head | Daily Mail Online

This article surely would have sensationalized any injury info they could grasp onto.
Thats what DailMailUK does.
I seriously doubt the amount of $$ referred to in this article.

I hate thinking of this, but I also feel KR deserves a little more attention.

The only copies of the autopsy reports available are the ones that were heavily redacted. There are news stories covering the preliminary AR reports, but Ohio law only allowed the newspaper reporters to view the AR's and take notes for reporting. No copies are available for the preliminary AR's.

Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed

Rhoden massacre: Autopsy reveals gruesome details in slayings of 8 family members

Rhoden family autopsy reports show 8 killings were methodical and vicious | wusa9.com

Court releases autopsy reports in Rhoden deaths

Link to redacted Final Autopsy Results

usat-2016-09-23-redacted-rhoden-autopsies-oh.pdf

 

[Ann99]

It's just a WAG. After the Ws were arrested I felt someone had to watch the kids. I figured great granny was the safest bet. It doesn't mean she knew what was happening.

They could have easily went back to Peterson rd. I guess we will find out soon enough

Good question. Who watched the kids from late night into early morning? What would the sitter think the entire W clan was doing during that period of time?
Almost had to be one of the Grannies.
MO

 

[Betty P]

Good question. Who watched the kids from late night into early morning? What would the sitter think the entire W clan was doing during that period of time?
Almost had to be one of the Grannies.
MO

Also, IIRC from one of the discovery documents, a search was done at an address on Bethel Hill (?) Rd. It's believed this was an old trailer on FW's property that AW and Billy used to live in. There was some speculation here that it may have been a spot where the 4 Wagners visited before and/or after the murders to prepare, get cleaned up, etc.

 

[Covert Operative]

That sounds about right, then. I'm guessing he was with AW. IIRC, there were bloody shoeprints from the Walmart shoes found at Chris, Sr's place, so that sounds like Billy and GW4. That leaves one of them to have killed KR.

Yes and bloody shoe impression also found at DR. I think two left shoe impressions of the Walmart shoes at CRsr and one left shoe impression at DR of the Walmart shoes.

 

[Covert Operative]

Good question. Who watched the kids from late night into early morning? What would the sitter think the entire W clan was doing during that period of time?
Almost had to be one of the Grannies.
MO

I feel like one could have been home with them or had them in one of the vehicles asleep possibly.

 

[Ann99]

I feel like one could have been home with them or had them in one of the vehicles asleep possibly.

Oh! If that's what they did, it is quite cruel in many ways. Dangerous too.

 

[Betty P]

Oh! If that's what they did, it is quite cruel in many ways. Dangerous too.

I think I had a nightmare once of AW driving around as lookout between crime scenes with the little ones in the back seat. Ugh.

 

[Covert Operative]

I think I had a nightmare once of AW driving around as lookout between crime scenes with the little ones in the back seat. Ugh.

I could see her doing that.

 

[Betty P]

Yes and bloody shoe impression also found at DR. I think two left shoe impressions of the Walmart shoes at CRsr and one left shoe impression at DR of the Walmart shoes.

Must have been. They were different sizes and were probably the clues they used to match with AW's receipts. It's how LE knew to look for and keep that Walmart receipt they found when the Wags moved to AK. They may have already traced the shoes to Walmart by the time of the search.

Seeing two different size shoe prints of the same style shoe, new, in 2 different crime scense must have caught their attention.

 

[Ann99]

The only copies of the autopsy reports available are the ones that were heavily redacted. There are news stories covering the preliminary AR reports, but Ohio law only allowed the newspaper reporters to view the AR's and take notes for reporting. No copies are available for the preliminary AR's.

Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed

Rhoden massacre: Autopsy reveals gruesome details in slayings of 8 family members

Rhoden family autopsy reports show 8 killings were methodical and vicious | wusa9.com

Court releases autopsy reports in Rhoden deaths

Link to redacted Final Autopsy Results

usat-2016-09-23-redacted-rhoden-autopsies-oh.pdf

Thanks Betty. I will look at the redacted report again.

 

[Covert Operative]

Oh! If that's what they did, it is quite cruel in many ways. Dangerous too.

I kind of do not see AW being put in danger at the crime scenes since she was suppose to get the children if JW and G4 met their demise. She could have stayed home or been in a vehicle.

With that being said I could see her at DR or FR crime scene once the others were able to get in undetected and make sure it was safe for her to come in. I could see it both ways.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks Betty. I will look at the redacted report again.

There's not a whole lot there for Kenneth, even when guessing at the redacted parts. His cause of death was the single gunshot wound, most likely to the eye and into the brain. There doesn't seem to be any mention of other injuries. At the time these were released, BCI was trying to hide information about the nature of the wound, type of weapon, time of death, etc.

I think Kenneth's AR is second to last in that document. It begins on page 53