Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

[kshultz06082]

Sure, I would always go to an unemployed hairdresser/fitness consultants for legal advice.

Huh? Who went to LVD for legal advice?

 

[kshultz06082]

I don't really care but... I have wondered if the associate YouTubers cut ties when they first knew she was talking to MM or just before she was outed? That entire thing is an ugly mess.

I love me some true crime podcasts, but I have to say that I have never been able to stomach ARs podcasts. Before I knew anything about her involvement with MM, she came off to me as smarmy and acting like a know-it-all, so I'm truly not surprised that she is involved in this fiasco. There are a few others that rub me the same way, but because they are approved "sources", I won't be more specific, but I won't be surprised if more than a few are proven to do unethical and morally questionable things to get that nice fat check from youtube, super chats, memberships, donations, and patreon. At this point, there are only a few sources that I am 100% comfortable with and those are Nate Eaton, EIN as a whole, Justin Lum and Eric Grossarth. Even CourtTv has not been 100% above board because they leaked the info about the grand jury which hadn't happened yet and is supposed to be a secret. I truly hope none of the youtubers/tweeters have caused irreparable damage to this case, but I'm not convinced they haven't. Jmo

 

[kshultz06082]

Could be the attorney told BB that the judge was very female friendly or “mother” friendly. So sad now that we know more.

I would be curious to know how much of MPs approved parenting time she has actually followed thru with. I never felt that she truly cared about seeing her kids, it was just another way to mess with BB. JMO

 

[kshultz06082]

Realistically, I think he was looking to build up a following of people who regarded him as a prophet. I think the murders were very specifically to do with his desire to marry a childless Lori.

Not childless, but dependent-less... Colby doesn't seem to have been an issue for them. Chad's kids are all still alive too. All the one's who were dependent upon LV for support (financial, food, housing) are now deceased, but older offspring who are on their own and no longer dependent on LVD or CD don't seem like they were headed to the chopping block. And all the other players who had children (under 18) seemed to have abandoned their marriages and dependent children to remarry/date others that seem to have done the same (MBP/IP, MG/DW, and most obviously, CD/LVD). Alex/Zulema seem to be the only exceptions, but Alex didn't have any kids and all of ZPs kids seem to be over 18 and they were both already single, so that part doesn't apply, BUT if AC was the hitman and was found to have a big mouth ( re: conversations with MG), then he would obviously need to go, but the only way for a life insurance policy to be paid to anyone that could benefit the cult would be to get him married off. Otherwise, my assumption is that his parents would be his next of kin seeing as he was unmarried and childless and would therefore receive any life insurance payout. Or in the 2 weeks that he and ZP were married, they could have both taken out life insurance policies and named each other as beneficiaries. And I doubt AC would have thought he was on the chopping block, but ZP could have known he was and that's why she married him. Remember, according to the people at the Vegas chapel said it seemed like a very business like transaction.

This is all my own speculation, but it works with all the known info.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I actually do not believe in a wider conspiracy. IMO the number 60 will be explained in a different way.

PAP and AVOW were/are much bigger than Chad's little circle. Sixty phones would be nothing to them. JR is not a member of either. No sign that's she's being investigated as part of this case.

Let's say that PAP or AVOW were involved. What did they have to hide to operate in secrecy? AVOW previously ostracized members who have been excommunicated by the Church (including JR). They didn't close shop when the case broke. On the other hand PAP folded rather quickly. There might have been sympathizers of Chad ideas among them (and probably some in the AVOW membership). PAP founders/facilitators have not been accused of anything so far. They operate a similar business under a new name.

Oh, I don't think all of PAP/AVOW was Chad's outer circle, but I do think PAP/AVOW was the recruiting terrain for that circle. Remember Zac reporting that he walked into a secretive meeting of forty or so when CV was out of town? 60 burner phones and 30 throwaway email addresses covers thirty couples, plus or minus.

 

[indicolite22]

Oh, I don't think all of PAP/AVOW was Chad's outer circle, but I do think PAP/AVOW was the recruiting terrain for that circle. Remember Zac reporting that he walked into a secretive meeting of forty or so when CV was out of town? 60 burner phones and 30 throwaway email addresses covers thirty couples, plus or minus.

We know that they (people around PAP/podcasts) were meeting in individuals' homes even before Lori met Chad. In one of the 2018 meetings at MG's house Lori was recorded saying that she wanted to murder her third husband. Chad was also known to talk to smaller groups after conferences. That doesn't mean that all of the private meetings were associated with Chad or that the people present were his disciples or part of the 144k. There are a few steps between explaining visions and zombies. There was no need for attendees to use burner phones. (IMO)

 

[Ruminations]

I actually do not believe in a wider conspiracy. IMO the number 60 will be explained in a different way.

PAP and AVOW were/are much bigger than Chad's little circle. Sixty phones would be nothing to them. JR is not a member of either. No sign that's she's being investigated as part of this case.

Let's say that PAP or AVOW were involved. What did they have to hide to operate in secrecy? AVOW previously ostracized members who have been excommunicated by the Church (including JR). They didn't close shop when the case broke. On the other hand PAP folded rather quickly. There might have been sympathizers of Chad ideas among them (and probably some in the AVOW membership). PAP founders/facilitators have not been accused of anything so far. They operate a similar business under a new name.

I think there may be connections that are not centrally organized, but are a confluence of rivalries and alliances among various persons or groups that have dubious to criminal intentions.

I don’t think it is possible that AVOW and PAP are NOT involved. Yet I don’t think any one group or individual is in charge. I doubt either group set out to murder children, but it is premature to presume they had nothing to do with setting the stage that allowed it to happen.

Some ordinary people get pulled in an are traumatized by how much they lost sight of their marriage and previous priorities. Some narcissistic psychopaths are drawn in and brutally murder children and spouses. The groups are an influence, and the groups might have dubious or even fraudulent/criminal goals of their own. The murders we are sleuthing might be collateral damage in the eyes of these groups- unfortunate more because they brought in prying eyes than for the inhumanity.

I see a lot of sleuths saying they think those pulled in by manipulative actions are making an excuse for their own behavior.

Everybody is responsible for their own behavior, and in the case the fire girl, I see no evidence at all that she is trying to evade responsibility. But some others in her position might, I suppose.

This responsibility does not stop at the targets of manipulative behavior. It also applies to individuals and groups who are manipulating. Right?

Whether we have compassion or contempt for those who were manipulated depends on how much it seems to us they allowed it to happen.

But the manipulator does not get off the hook, no matter how easy or hard their target made it for them.

I feel we are seeing more and more evidence that these groups are manipulative. I’m not suggesting first degree murder. But it looks to me like we are going to find more and more culpability with them.

MOO, MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

I don’t think it is possible that AVOW and PAP are NOT involved. Yet I don’t think any one group or individual is in charge. I doubt either group set out to murder children, but it is premature to presume they had nothing to do with setting the stage that allowed it to happen.

SBM. Chad can't blame anyone else for taking it upon himself to decide who lives and who dies. He liked the idea of playing God. I can imagine fringe groups doing their thing without anyone getting murdered. I don't think Chad advertized within PAP or AVOW what he was about to do. For him they were vehicles to reach his customers.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

We know that they (people around PAP/podcasts) were meeting in individuals' homes even before Lori met Chad. In one of the 2018 meetings at MG's house Lori was recorded saying that she wanted to murder her third husband. Chad was also known to talk to smaller groups after conferences. That doesn't mean that all of the private meetings were associated with Chad or that the people present were his disciples or part of the 144k. There are a few steps between explaining visions and zombies. There was no need for attendees to use burner phones. (IMO)

Oh, sure. I would point out that we are by no means certain of exactly when Lori met Chad. Also, Girl on Fire described a "structure" of nested groups where the numbers got smaller and the ooga-booga got weirder as you moved toward the center. So a Visions Circle could be quite open but a subset Zombie Circle not so much. I was just pointing that a 60-person inner circle with something to hide (e.g. from the established LDS church) was not out of the question. What struck me about Zac's description of the meeting was not so much the number of people but the fact that they all went silent and stared at him when he walked into the house. One would expect a bit more fellowship from a traditional faith-based group.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Oh, sure. I would point out that we are by no means certain of exactly when Lori met Chad. Also, Girl on Fire described a "structure" of nested groups where the numbers got smaller and the ooga-booga got weirder as you moved toward the center. So a Visions Circle could be quite open but a subset Zombie Circle not so much. I was just pointing that a 60-person inner circle with something to hide (e.g. from the established LDS church) was not out of the question. What struck me about Zac's description of the meeting was not so much the number of people but the fact that they all went silent and stared at him when he walked into the house. One would expect a bit more fellowship from a traditional faith-based group.

IMO, Zac's description sounded like something out of Rosemary's Baby, lol.

 

[indicolite22]

Oh, sure. I would point out that we are by no means certain of exactly when Lori met Chad. Also, Girl on Fire described a "structure" of nested groups where the numbers got smaller and the ooga-booga got weirder as you moved toward the center. So a Visions Circle could be quite open but a subset Zombie Circle not so much. I was just pointing that a 60-person inner circle with something to hide (e.g. from the established LDS church) was not out of the question. What struck me about Zac's description of the meeting was not so much the number of people but the fact that they all went silent and stared at him when he walked into the house. One would expect a bit more fellowship from a traditional faith-based group.

To me the Visions Circle could be a regular PAP meeting and the Zombie Circle about 7 people (for now). I'm sure MG could answer the question about the meeting ZC interrupted. Since she hasn't mentioned it so far, I doubt it's very important for the case.

 

[Laughing]

I will say that I do believe in Little Red's description of what happened to her as being hypnotic. I did not used to believe in hypnosis, and I know a lot of people think they would not be suseptible to it. I thought that about myself, as well.

Through the years I have come to believe in the power of "suggestion" when one is in a "suggestible" state, such as trance, which is hypnosis.

Trance states are easily induced, when watching TV, listening to music, praying, chanting, dancing etc. Then you find yourself buying the product that was advertised. And everyone is suseptible to it, whether they know they are nor not. Religions are especially good at inducing trance states in believers.

and IMHO charlatans can identify susceptible people quickly & shift their approach as needed to bring them into the fold.

Like another other con finding a 'mark' and working the game, long or short.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[nyvictoria]

Wow! 60 is a lot of mobile phones. You certainly got my attention. Just went down a rabbit hole searching for link. Zero results. Hope someone finds one as I am so curious.

At one point when I was working, I had 45 phones and even more pagers under my name. They were all for my employees to use. It sounds like a lot but I was able to expense the cost. That was likely the case for Charles too.

 

[Forever Young]

Headline News (HLN) ran this back in February 2020 and it has come up in again my YouTube suggestions. I remember seeing the original interview between Nate and "Jessica" and took it with a huge grain of salt back then. We've come full circle since then:

 

[Forever Young]

Original Nate Eaton interview with "Jessica":

 

[DI_Isokawa]

From the timeline:

23 Jun 2020 – Dateline producer Shane Bishop tweets out that police found as many as 60 untraceable phones and said the group also used approximately 30 email addresses. They also tweet that they’ve heard that at TDs funeral CD was pointing to attendees and pronouncing their spirits as light or dark. They also tweet that on 9 Jun 2020, the day of the search of his yard, CD was given the choice to sit on the couch and be escorted everywhere by a deputy or leave the house. He went across the road and watched from his daughter’s property. They also tweet that MG said that AlC said “they’ll never find them (JJ and TR)”

 

[indicolite22]

Original Nate Eaton interview with "Jessica":

It appears from the interview and the EIN article below that the boss was a PAP member (podcasts are mentioned in the article). It's a name I haven't seen mentioned in the media in connection with this case.

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News

 

[fred&edna]

It appears from the interview and the EIN article below that the boss was a PAP member (podcasts are mentioned in the article). It's a name I haven't seen mentioned in the media in connection with this case.

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News

Are you talking about MJ or someone else... maybe I'm missing something/someone?

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

I remember this being discussed on WS before. Justin Lum made notes from the trial, but it looks like he omitted the part about BB's assessment: Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Other people were live tweeting while listening to the trial. You can find the information if you search for melani abnormalities on Twitter.

Many thanks!

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

And, his own children. The thought process here is so bizarre. Yet, CD "seemed" normal to many. Although, the interview with his brother, was insightful. I wonder if he will be called as a witness for any reason.

I missed the interview with Chad’s brother? When and where did that happen? He and his wife have released statements, but I’m unaware of an interview given..?