Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #152 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[Charlot123]

RA would have loved this.
Probably sending anonymous tips implicating RL.

And ironically, RL’s voice, or manner of speaking, resembled “down the hill”. Either the voice, too, was generic, or one can’t simply rely on one parameter. The girls were found on RL’s land, plus, the voice was similar, plus, the blob of the face on the video could be RL (could be any white male, as we can see now). Some people said, but look at RL - way taller than this dude on the bridge. - Oh, but he can bend his head, and he has a blue jacket!

Not that it made no sense, but I always felt sorry for RL, regardless. He appeared lonely.

As to the height, I wonder whether it is harder to estimate height if the person is smaller than you. I know my height, and my husband’s one, so most men would be somewhere between these two points. However, with someone shorter than me, who knows, 5’4” or 5’5”.

I think the witness was approximately 5’6” so they saw the eyes, and approximated the height as close to their own. Plus, the perp was wearing a hat, was bundled up so looked bigger. RA might be closer to 5’5”, or some conditions can lead to shortening of the spine.

 

[SuziQ]

Former LAPD detective says authorities in Delphi will likely remain tight-lipped on evidence

Monday, authorities in Delphi announced an arrest in the unsolved murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams - 50-year-old Richard Allen - a drugstore worker who has been living in the same community where the bodies were found nearly six years ago.

www.fortwaynesnbc.com

“They won’t leave anything to chance, so they are not going to really share any information with the public that can harm the case”

''Lombardo says he believes that whoever committed the crimes in Delphi was what he calls a “disorganized killer”, and, he says, he believes the murders could have been a matter of the girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

“I think it was a crime of opportunity,” Lombardo said. “I think, and again I am just speculating, that he knew the girls were going to be there and that’s kind of the sign of a disorganized killer”.

Lombardo says, as a former detective, he understands that people working on the Delphi case have likely felt immense pressure from media, family and the public the last five years.''

He doesn't have anymore info about this case than we do. In fact, it appears he has less. Imo.

 

[MassGuy]

I remember reading at some point, that the bodies were left being a certain way." Actually, it was a PC, now that I think about it. The speaker was angry, and speaking directly to the killer. Does anyone else remember hearing this? He said something like "Their bodies are not the way you left them." AFAIK, they never released information publicly about how the bodies were "left". Were they posed in some way? Were they mutilated in some way? Was there something black magicky about the way they were left? Maybe the books removed had something to do with that. Or, perhaps they were child *advertiser censored* videos.

It was also mentioned in a search warrant for an early suspect in the case:

The search warrant application reveals never-before-discussed details about the crime scene and how the girls were found.

“A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene,” the FBI agent wrote.

The warrant also reveals that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI search warrant raises questions about Delphi property owner's arrest

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — I-Team 8 broke the news on Tuesday about an FBI search warrant that reveals new details about the Delphi murder scene and what the killer of Abby Williams and Libby German may have taken from the property. I-Team 8 has pieced together new information about Ronald Logan, the...

www.wishtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

Anyone want to share some thoughts on your opinions on possible IQ/intelligence level on this guy?

Average to slightly below average. I remember early on we were debating if this guy was organized/disorganized, and although there seems to be a bit of a mix here, Ive always felt it was more disorganized. This was an insanely risky crime, in that it was broad daylight, in a location that although relatively remote, exposed the perpetrator to discovery.

He would have been covered in blood, and then have to make his way out of there without being spotted. As a general rule, disorganized killers don't typically have a high level of intelligence, and typically work blue collar type jobs (that's not to say that blue collar workers have low intelligence, but that's the type of job he'd be able to do).

ETA: A post I made in 2019.

One of the hallmarks of disorganized killers, is a level of overkill. They derive pleasure from desecrating and mutilating the bodies of their victims. This separates them from more organized killers.

They hunt close to home, tend to have lower self control, and are more prone to drug and alcohol problems.

The late FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood has an excellent book on the differences between the two.

According to his research, organized killers tend to have three separate crimes scenes:

Place of initial contact.

Place of murder.

Place where body is disposed.

BG likely had two.

Disorganized serial killers tend to have a lower IQ than their organized counterparts. Although this guy is not by definition a serial killer, I believe the same rules apply here.

Serial Killers: Insane or Super Intelligent?

Misconception of social mores.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[shushu]

I don't know, that's not indicative of intelligence IMO. Just points to someone without a conscience IMO

He was lucky, but it ran out.

 

[BeckyF]

Just my opinion, but I think parts of the press conference were unprofessional. The tears of LEO, the describing of their emotions as investigators, and the patting each other on the back over the great job LEO did, none of this should have entered into the news conference, in my opinion. All of those things are real, and there would be a place for them in a book about the case, or in a television special, but in a news conference called to announce the arrest of the (alleged) murderer, they should have have all been put on hold.

I'm not putting LEO down, I'm very happy they got their man. I'm just saying that the emotions and the trauma of investigating this case and their appreciation of each other shouldn't be part of a professional press conference. Justice for the victims should be. MOO

Actually you did put them down. The only speech I heard that sounded as if someone was close to tears was from Mr. Carter who sounded like he had a cold.

 

[Charlot123]

Anyone want to share some thoughts on your opinions on possible IQ/intelligence level on this guy?

High-average plus, he is a planner. It adds functionality. He is emotional, likely, but I wonder if he is into things like “preparedness”, etc.

He could be in the superior range, but less likely; in this case, I wonder what dragged him back in life, and when it happened.

I paid attention to the fact that the waiter in his favorite pub said he did not talk much. One might wonder if outside of his pharmacy partition and with a person whom he didn’t know well (meaning, the guy was not used to his voice, could pay attention to it), he was very careful not to say too much and not to resemble BG.

 

[Marysmith]

Yes, it’s disgusting. The man sounded like he had a cold. Some people have nothing better to do than criticize instead of being grateful.

I think he was very emotional as well at the capture.

 

[BeckyF]

I think he was very emotional as well at the capture.

And I certainly think that would have been appropriate if that’s the case.

 

[shushu]

I think he was very emotional as well at the capture.

He's been emotional in the past too. I don't see the big deal? He was personally invested in this case which seems very normal considering crime and time he dedicated to solving it.

 

[yelodoggie]

I haven’t been able to keep up with the posts but the very little I have read, it says that KK posed as a young male model in contacting the girls. I think they were on the bridge that day looking for a handsome male. They would have been flattered that he showed. An interest in them, right?

I read in a news article that LE identified the model, and that the actual person is uninvolved, but someone was using their photo for catfishing purposes.

 

[Marysmith]

He was lucky, but it ran out.

I agree, he was lucky… but he was careful too. I’m sure he’s been massively stressed though and knew it was likely a matter of time before he was caught.
I watched some of “Down The Hill” tonight and the ?Delphi police chief or ?County Sheriff was talking about how he had 3 tips put in on him anonymously that he could be BG. So I wonder if it was like with Ted Bundy where even his girlfriend submitted him as a tip and it was sort of looked at but not seriously until later? So RA was submitted as a possible and just was never able to be ruled out and then they had other people arrested in the meantime that looked like way better suspects?

 

[Marysmith]

He's been emotional in the past too. I don't see the big deal? He was personally invested in this case which seems very normal considering crime and time he dedicated to solving it.

I was defending him. I think it’s totally fine and humane to be that way.

 

[Marysmith]

And I certainly think that would have been appropriate if that’s the case.

Totally agree.

 

[Kano]

i'd guess average intelligence so far. We can't really say what all he has done in the past and gotten away with. We cant say there was any planning or anything really and as we know, the hardest cases to solve are crimes of opportunity with the victim and killer having 0 relation.


It would be quite odd for his guy to commit a random double murder in a small community and have no suspects, no sign of breaking and no prior criminal past or prior acts of violence.

 

[shushu]

I read in a news article that LE identified the model, and that the actual person is uninvolved, but someone was using their photo for catfishing purposes.

Sadly, the girls were too inexperienced to understand they were being Catfished, as most adults would have known immediately. These creeps can't talk to actual women so they prey on teens.

 

[The Observer]

Posting these notes for anyone that might be interested in pin points.

Information from Barbara McDonald (Down The Hill) and the neighbour two doors up.

• Search Oct 13. Commenced just before noon - went for 12 hours. LE arrived in unmarked vehicles and clothing. LE asked Rick and Wife to exit the house.
• Rick stood in the driveway for several hours and also sat in the car with his wife for several hours. At some point the neighbour said the wife left.
• Plenty of LE just stood around for the first part of the day. As it was getting dark Chief Deputy Liggett arrived with a piece of paper in hand. He handed that paper to Rick. Immediately a tow truck arrived and to take Rick Allen's car away.
• At this point some LE entered the house and some entered the backyard. They started searching the shed and taking pictures.
• LE were using a device like a metal detector or sonar around the shed and in the flower bed. They did not dig in the flower bed but did dig up two tiny spots near shed.
• LE started bring ing items out from the house. Neighbours said 1 LE officer came out with what appeared to be 2 large bundles of dark coloured cloth. Could not be sure it was clothes, only that it was definitely cloth.
• LE also brought out a Macy's shopping bag, a shoe box and a small stack of books. Said they were thin books not thick like encyclopedia books.
• The neighbour said they were starting to get concerned and placed a call to Chief Deputy Liggett to ask what was going on and all that Liggett told them was to 'stay vigilant especially with your wife and daughters.' This unsettled them.
• The day after the search Rick went to work. The neighbour states he saw him in store and felt that Rick was continuing as if nothing happened. Neighbour said they lived life as normal til Oct 26th when Rick was detained.
• From Oct 26 the neighbours have not seen anyone at the house. They have not seen the wife since he was detained.
• House has remained empty since Oct 26.
• The neighbour said they were a normal family. They did not have visitors, no parties, etc. They were very quiet.
• Neighbour said he would see Rick arrive home from work and Rick would regularly sit in the driveway in a lawn chair having a few beers and maybe smoking some ciggarettes.
• Neighbour said they had a little bit more interaction with the wife than they did with him.

Note: I think we can assume LE sat around for hours and made sure nothing was interferred with whilst they gained a warrant for the house and car. So the search itself did not go for 12 hours.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[Kano]

Posting these notes for anyone that might be interested in pin points.

Information from Barbara McDonald (Down The Hill) and the neighbour two doors up.

• Search Oct 13. Commenced just before noon - went for 12 hours. LE arrived in unmarked vehicles and clothing. LE asked Rick and Wife to exit the house.
• Rick stood in the driveway for several hours and also sat in the car with his wife for several hours. At some point the neighbour said the wife left.
• Plenty of LE just stood around for the first part of the day. As it was getting dark Chief Deputy Liggett arrived with a piece of paper in hand. He handed that paper to Rick. Immediately a tow truck arrived and to take Rick Allen's car away.
• At this point some LE entered the house and some entered the backyard. They started searching the shed and taking pictures.
• LE were using a device like a metal detector or sonar around the shed and in the flower bed. They did not dig in the flower bed but did dig up two tiny spots near shed.
• LE started bring ing items out from the house. Neighbours said 1 LE officer came out with what appeared to be 2 large bundles of dark coloured cloth. Could not be sure it was clothes, only that it was definitely cloth.
• LE also brought out a Macy's shopping bag, a shoe box and a small stack of books. Said they were thin books not thick like encyclopedia books.
• The neighbour said they were starting to get concerned and placed a call to Chief Deputy Liggett to ask what was going on and all that Liggett told them was to 'stay vigilant especially with your wife and daughters.' This unsettled them.
• The day after the search Rick went to work. The neighbour states he saw him in store and felt that Rick was continuing as if nothing happened. Neighbour said they lived life as normal til Oct 26th when Rick was detained.
• From Oct 26 the neighbours have not seen anyone at the house. They have not seen the wife since he was detained.
• House has remained empty since Oct 26.
• The neighbour said they were a normal family. They did not have visitors, no parties, etc. They were very quiet.
• Neighbour said he would see Rick arrive home from work and Rick would regularly sit in the driveway in a lawn chair having a few beers and maybe smoking some ciggarettes.
• Neighbour said they had a little bit more interaction with the wife than they did with him.

Note: I think we can assume LE sat around for hours and made sure nothing was interferred with whilst they gained a warrant for the house and car. So the search itself did not go for 12 hours.

Edit: Spelling.

odd process for a raid and warrant.. Small community and worried about him hearing they were coming?

 

[shushu]

Weren't police communicating with his attorney starting in the summer? I was under the impression that he knew it was coming.

Cancel this. I was mixing up Kline's summer negotiations with Allen.

Edited to answer my question

 

[Sneaker33]

Two presser statements that were emphasized:

* ALL persons arrested are presumed innocent. (made me think of more than one person involved)
* Tip line remains open

I read LE believes the bodies were moved and staged so I am curious where the actual murders took place and if he had help. I don't see how he could have moved either girl once deceased. I wonder if the plan was to take one of the girls as a hostage and that plan did not work out so both ended up being killed. I suggest this because we have heard of victims being kept hidden away. What creates such a monster? Interesting he had wife order and they shared meals. Definitely be interested if this was new behavior.