4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[schooling]

I'm confused (thank you for posting that link by the way).... first it states that D thought the noise was from people partying in the house, and hollered out for them to quiet down. But, then later on, she's "scared of what she heard". Yet, D doesn't call police. I hope the families (and Ethan's SIL) get some answers about this soon.

100% MOO

I don't think LE knows the exact time that DM was actually awoken by sounds emanating from what seems like the 3rd floor (PCA). Hence the 'approximately 4am'.

DM likely woke up and tried to immediately dismiss what she heard and go back to sleep. "Goncalves playing with her dog" shows that she's making an attempt to rationalize what she hears. It's likely that she also makes an attempt to rationalizes the sounds that follow.

On the first door opening and the reported yelling of telling people to quiet down shows that she's still rationalizing what she's heard so far. And everything up until that moment she's attributing to a party (as reported) . It could also be a sign that she's texted her roommates and no one's responded and she's frustrated.

Opening the door a 2nd time is a good indicator of her growing concern over whatever ore she was hearing. Imagine looking out that door a 2nd time and not seeing anything. More cognitive dissonance.

What started off as more distant sounds on the 3rd floor slowly becomes louder, clearer and closer to her door. The sounds go from being attributed to Kaylee to now Xana.

Everything culimnates with the crying and the 3rd door open. Seeing BK.

Also worth keeping in mind that LE suspects the murder happened within a 15 minute time window. Which isn't a lot of time for all of the above to play out. Just the time span from "Kaylee with Dog" to hearing partying sounds and the first door opening was likely multiple minutes.

And over that 15 minutes the sounds were likely not a constant. So I'm picturing a lot of pauses and her sitting still trying to listen. Maybe even texting her roommates. (this would help lock in the time of the murders)

Her fear grew and escalated over a relatively short amount of time.

IMO she texted her roommates and only BF responded. And I think BF likely heard sounds to. And I think (people are gonig to hate this one) that they both came together to rationalize what they heard and wanted to believe that everything would be OK in the morning.

All MOO

 

[NotLisa]

How long does it stay activated?

Perhaps it did? They would leave out DM yelling so as to not involve her any more than necessary at the time of the PCA.

The screaming and crying thing is weird, though. You'd think the camera would have picked it up.

The main theory expressed many threads ago, about this, was that the camera was motion activated. So it came on either because the DoorDash guy triggered it or a cat triggered it. Then, of course, there was BK arriving and doing whatever he did - so maybe just intermittent bits of sound?

If D yelled at them at 4 am and the DDash driver arrived at 4:01, she wouldn't have been heard (if it was motion activated).

If there was screaming and crying, it would certainly be powerful but up to this point, no screaming has been mentioned.

What bugs me is that it's been said that they were asleep when attacked, so there wouldn't have been sounds of a party going on. Whatever sounds would have been abrupt and for a certain amount of time then silence.

 

[jepop]

I went back to check and in the PCA, the words "frozen shock phase" are in quotes, so it appears they were directly quoting her at that point. But were they? I had never heard that expression in my life until this case. I googled it two or three times and every single link came back to this case so, apparently, it's not in common usage.

I know it's meaning has been discussed on here and interpreted as anything from momentarily started to terrified motionless.

There were a couple of articles where "experts" explained what it meant and they were just as all over the place as we were. LOL Something tells me the judge had some questions about what that meant.

The fact that it's in quotes suggests that it's a direct quote from the witness' statement. MOO
edit spelling

 

[Cassady]

Thanks for this. So much for all the talking head blather about a conflict of interest.

Do these articles link the actual agreement? Does the agreement have a conflicts clause in it? A waiver of potential conflict clause? Is there an exhibit, amendment or addendum specifically showing the defendant has waived any potential conflicts? I have not seen a link in the articles I read to the actual document.

IMO if the agreement does not specifically address potential COI issues, especially related to the defendant's waiver, then it does not speak to potential COI issues....IMO. There may be other documents that speak to the COI issue.

If the case proceeds to trial with current counsel and the defendant is convicted, there better be some sort of documentation about the defendant waiving any potential COI issues related to counsel's former representations of victims' parents. If not, this will become an issue on appeal...IMO.

This fee agreement does seem to cover the attorneys' and support staffs' billable hours and other related costs. Attorneys from Boise may have charged a slightly higher billable rate than the attorneys from Cd'A....IMO.

I am not sure how actual attorneys providing analysis on a glaring potential COI is "blather"? It is a tricky question. The only arguments made by the few attorneys I have heard or read against there being a potential COI in this case almost always seem to be based on "judicial economy" and not on the rules of professional responsibility. Most attorneys who have commented on this issue in this case tend to think there is at least a potential COI and/or and an actual COI...IMO.

 

[jepop]

I'm curious who reported the screaming who overheard DM telling them to shut up? It's all very weird.

It's a second hand,unnamed source as per New Nation reports, certainly it's not implied to be DM. Strictly speaking this can be called hearsay IMO.

 

[Luna20]

Why is the public defender Anne Taylor getting paid $200 an hour?

 

[Sundog]

This fee agreement does seem to cover the attorneys' and support staffs' billable hours and other related costs. Attorneys from Boise may have charged a slightly higher billable rate than the attorneys from Cd'A....IMO.

<snipped for focus>

Would the rate for a public defender representing a defendant in a death penalty case be different in one part of the state over another? Or is the rate established by the state of Idaho and therefore the same no matter where in the state the public defender is serving.

I can't imagine that a defendant in a death penalty case would be assigned an attorney who is paid at a lower rate than a DP attorney who is defending a DP defendant in another part of the state.

JMO.

 

[jepop]

Well, after a minor crime happened to me, LE asked me to go through their computerized sketch system—which presented pairs of facial features, and asked which was more like the person I’d seen.

Now, it was a very minor crime, so LE wouldn’t have needed to worry about contaminating a witness. (It was 20 years ago, and they wanted to try out their new computer program!) But if such a program is used these days, it might well present a pair of dramatic eyebrows juxtaposed to more average ones.

Ok, but my point is that use of technology or other, would LE at this point in a massive investigation with ISP on the scene and the FBI coming on or whatever, but would they really compromise this witness statement (and others) by using an interview technique that that could be seen as 'leading' by the defense or outsiders? Like others here, I understand that these formal interviews with a witness would be recorded/documented. I suppose I objected to the OP's original post, where in my reading that is insinuated rather than openly enquired about as if it was a rumour or something, but MOO.

EBM: removed the words "last paragraph of" in last sentence -as Original post is one line

 

[ktm44]

What bugs me is that it's been said that they were asleep when attacked, so there wouldn't have been sounds of a party going on. Whatever sounds would have been abrupt and for a certain amount of time then silence.

I think that was the coroner, who walked that back to most were sleeping. The PCA suggests that X was very likely not asleep but since we have no indication of the nature of her wounds, it’s almost impossible to how much noise she was able to make.

I don’t think it has been said that the noises heard were party noise or interpreted as post party horseplay noise.

 

[jepop]

DM writers strike again! While the quoted sentence above is true, combining BK's objection with the mention of witnesses in the same sentence is confusing, I think. Later on the article discusses Gray's objections to the gag order and says "Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson noted that the victims' families, particularly the Goncalveses, could take the stand. 'The members of the Goncalves family, who are represented by Gray, are potential witnesses in this case, including at trial and/or sentencing,' he wrote in an affidavit Wednesday.

 JMO

Thank you. Best to cross check original sources, if available as they are in this case, with Daily M articles. MOO

 

[Sundog]

After doing some google research, it appears that in the state of Idaho, the county commissioners set the rate of fees for a public defender. There is no established state-wide rate, except for a private attorney who takes on the role of public defender if there is no public defender available.

Also, I'm assuming that the lead counsel in a death penalty case would receive higher compensation than s/he would receive for a non-capital case while serving as a public defender.
JMO.

 

[jepop]

DBM, wrong post

 

[I'm Nobody]

I revisited The Daily Mail timeline and added snips from the PCA and various news articles--color coded. Makes the case easier for me to follow. It's like my whiteboard. Most of you don't seem to need help keeping up.

Timeline Revisited
WSU from Daily Mail PCA copy & pasted paraphrase & snipes MSM various news outlets

June: BK phone 8458 from AT&T account was opened in June 2022
August: BK moved into Steptoe Village in Pullman, WA.
August: Started teaching assistant job at Washington State University

Aug 21: Approx 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m. BK Cell recorded tracked to King Road Residence
Approx 1:37 p.m. BK was stopped by Latah County Sheriff's Deputy CPL Duke (traffic stop)
Cell tracked on at least 12 occasions prior to Nov 13. All, except one, in late evening/early morning hours.
Sep 23: Altercation with Professor John Snyder at Washington State University
Oct 3: Had a meeting with Snyder regarding his 'professional behavior'
Oct 21: Kohberger received an email informing him he failed to 'meet expectations'
Nov 2: Had a meeting with Snyder to discuss an 'improvement plan'

Nov 13: Between 2:47 am and 4:48 am. BK cell not reporting to AT&T***
Nov 13: Starting 3:29 a.m Security videos BK's car in King Rd neighborhood. LE says it made 3 passes by murder house &
About 4:04 a.m. a 4th pass before leaving the area at a high rate of speed at about 4:20 a.m.
Nov 13: Kohberger allegedly kills four University of Idaho students
Apprx 4:00 a.m. door dash delivery
Approx 4:00 a.m.D.M. stated she was awoken by (Significant D.M. statement omitted by me)
Approx 4:12 a.m. (Xana) Kernodle cellular indicated she was likely awake & using the TikTok app
About 4:20 a.m. Security video shows car leaving area at high rate of speed
Nov 13: Approx 4:17 a.m. security cam at I112 King Road picked up distorted audio sounded like voices or a whimper
followed by a loud thud.
A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 a.m.
The sec carn is less than fifty feet from west wall Kernodle's bedroom
Nov 13: About 4:20 a.m. Security video shows (suspect vehicle car) leaving area at high rate of speed
Approx 4:48 a.m. ***BK's cell phone turned back on?????? re above PCA
Around 5:25 a.m.Surveillance video recorded the BK's car in Pullman and the WSU campus
Nov 13: Approx 9:00 a.m. BK's phone leaving the area of the Kohberger Residence & traveling to Moscow, ID.
Between 9:12 a.m.& 9:21 a.m. Cell records track BK’s phone near the King Road Residence
Approx 9:32 a.m BK's cell then traveled back to Kohberger residence & arrived to the area at 9:32 a.m.
Nov 13: Approx 12:36 p.m. cell & videos US Chefs Store & Kate's Cup of Joe coffee stand located Clarkston, WA.
Approx 12:45 p.m. Albertson's grocery store Clarkston, WA
Approx 12:49 p.m. Interior cams show BK walkthrough checkout
Approx 1:04 p.m. BK leaves Albertsons.
Approx 5:32 p.m. and 5:36 p.m. the 8458 phone is in Johnson, ID
Approx 5:36 p.m.to 8:30 p.m. Phone stops reporting to the network
Nov 18: Elantra received a new license plate/Washington State
Nov 21: BK's birthday 11/21/94 (28th b-day)
Nov. 25: BOLO to LE lookout for a Hyundai Elantra.
Nov 29: Arrest warrant request BK for Burglary at I122 King Street in Moscow, Idaho,
& four counts of Murder in the First Degree for the murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves,
Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin.
Dec 7: Police ask public's help locating white Elantra
Dec 7: Meeting w a group of professors who cited his sexist attitude toward women & his 'behavioral issues' concerning
Dec 9: Had a 2nd altercation w Snyder, who told the BK he 'had made no progress regarding professionalism'
Dec 15: Drive to PA w father/east of Indianapolis pulled over 10:41 a.m. & 10:50 a.m. speeding & following too close
Dec 16: Elantra serviced auto maintenance shop PA.
Dec 19: BK was officially terminated from WSU TA position
Dec 27: Trash recovered from the K family residence by PA law enforcement & tested in Idaho
Dec 28: DNA profile from the PA trash matched Idaho knife sheath found laying on the bed of one of the victims
Dec 30: BK was arrested at his parent's home in Pennsylvania
2023
Jan 3: BK appeared PA’s Monroe Cty Courthouse & waived extradition in order to be moved back to Idaho to face charges
Jan 4: BK arrives at Pullman/Moscow Regional Airport
Jan. 5: BK made his first court appearance in Latah County / initial appearance
Jan 12: BK status hearing waived his right to speedy trial
June 26: 9:00 a.m. Koberger’s preliminary hearing in Latah County is scheduled to start June 26, 2023


Spacing didn't transfer well, looks a little wavy. you get the idea. JMO
edit: Door Dash Delivery left off.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

What bugs me is that it's been said that they were asleep when attacked, so there wouldn't have been sounds of a party going on. Whatever sounds would have been abrupt and for a certain amount of time then silence.

Actually, we know at least some of them weren't asleep because per the PCA, Xana got a Door Dash delivery at 4 am. DM and BF could have also gone to sleep before the others. Per the PCA, we know that both KG and MM were awake as late as 3 am-ish because they were texting KG's ex. We have no reason to believe it was unusual for a house in which at least one occupant was awake at 4 am didn't have another person/people in it. I doubt DM thought it was a full-on party. She likely just thought there were a couple of people over to party with her housemates and she was getting fed up. We also don't know that the sounds would have been abrupt. The crying or screaming may have been, but again, she was woken up with these noises, supposedly yelled out for them to be quite and then expected that they would be if they were considerate roommates. I'm not sure why her mind would jump to "murder noises" rather than party noises.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Why is the public defender Anne Taylor getting paid $200 an hour?

Why not?

 

[jepop]

trying to redact, alter, or "clarify" an affidavit for a warrant isn't allowed. They are stuck with it. That is what LE believed to be true at the time, it is what the judge relied upon.

I tend to think it's a direct quote from a statement/interview made by DM. That makes sense to me on a number of levels. First, I don't think LE would put in quotes unless this was true; Second, in the PCA this quote explains how it was that DM managed to be positioned to see the stranger enough to provide her basic description; third, if it is DM's own words then it is her unique way of explaining what was going on for her at that point. I'd guess that it's reasonable to assume that in a more lengthy witness statement there might be a few sentences surrounding that phrase that could expand upon it but that is MOO and speculation ofcourse. But I think investigators decided that it was best to use DM's own words in the PCA at that point, rather than go into lengthy explanations that might be fodder for the defense at a PH to question the PCA on technicalities. Just MOO

 

[Gemmie]

What bugs me is that it's been said that they were asleep when attacked, so there wouldn't have been sounds of a party going on. Whatever sounds would have been abrupt and for a certain amount of time then silence.

They weren't all asleep unless Xana was sleep eating at 4am. I've familiar with sleep walking but sleep eating? Not something I'm familiar with. I suppose it could happen but I doubt it in Xana's case. JMO.

In regards to your last sentence... you bring up a very good point. Party noises last for more than 15 min or less (the amount of time BK was in and out). So "noise, noise, noise, silence"... that's not normal for a party house. Or any house, IMO (less than 15 min of party sounding noises).

 

[wary]

Why is the public defender Anne Taylor getting paid $200 an hour?

Because public defenders get paid less than private attorneys?

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

They weren't all asleep unless Xana was sleep eating at 4am. I've familiar with sleep walking but sleep eating? Not something I'm familiar with. I suppose it could happen but I doubt it in Xana's case. JMO.

Sleep eating is a thing, but this was not going on with Xana because per the PCA, she was active on TikTok as well.

In regards to your last sentence... you bring up a very good point. Party noises last for more than 15 min or less (the amount of time BK was in and out). So "noise, noise, noise, silence"... that's not normal for a party house. Or any house, IMO (less than 15 min of party sounding noises).

Why assume the murder noises lasted only 15 minutes? Just because the killer was in the house for 15 minutes doesn't mean everything went silent when he left. And if DM told them to quiet down, why wouldn't she assume they were following her directive to keep it down?

MOO.

 

[jepop]

I wouldn’t go that far because I think LE did a good job all in all. However, the way the pca is written doesn’t match the subsequent actions of the witness. Therefore, I think it sends the wrong message imo.

The thing is, the PCA is not there to explain the subsequent actions of the witness or send a message to the world of social media IMO. And DM has chosen to remain quiet (for good reasons IMO), so all subsequent actions on that night and the next day that have been reported are from other sources MOO. IMO defense would have a field day if the PCA went on to 'defend' DM, so to speak, against any perceived potential future attacks on her via sm or MSM (via unnnamed second hand sources). That would be impartiality towards a witness in the PCA and there is no place for that IMO. Defense would destroy any thing like that at the PH IMO. MOO Just recently the defense has asked for standard items, IMO, in the discovery looking for places where they hope (as opposed to know), IMO, that LE may have stuffed up. LE would have knowledge of law IMO that defense is fully entitled to view witness interviews and statements and reports of how witnesses were handled by LE at the time. Defense would be remiss not to view this material in discovery. MOO