GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

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I was absolutely gobsmacked when it came out about LL's parents being present at the grievance meeting, or whatever it was called. For a 25-year-old! Did she want them there? Did they insist on being there? How did the hospital feel about it? It's (almost) unbelievable!
 
Blondiexoxo said:
  1. Lucy Letby was on shift for all 22 incidents of collapse/death - not much in and of itself right?​
  2. Collapses only happened at night, while LL was on night shifts. Once LL was moved to day shifts, the collapses followed her there. And once she was removed from the unit completely, lo and behold they stopped.
  3. Lucy Letby had opportunity. She was in some cases witnessed being the last person near these babies before they collapsed. She didn’t require long to inject air into her victims. A few seconds would have been enough.
  4. Lucy Letby didn’t like not being allocated babies in room 1. This is where the itu babies were. In the case of baby C she moaned to a co worker about not being designated a room 1 baby just 6 minutes before baby C collapsed and died
  5. Lucy Letby was found with 257 handover sheets in her home, relating to many of the victims. Handover sheets that should never have left the hospital. And certainly should not have been stashed in bags for life or boxes marked ‘KEEP’
  6. Lucy Letby owned a shredder that she could have used to shred these personal documents but didn’t (even though she claims to have used the shredder for bank statements) she lied about owning the shredder, claimed to have no recollection of it, then claimed it was her parents, then claimed she brought it shortly before her arrest.
  7. Lucy Letby searched for the parents of her victims on Facebook, with a special interest in the parents of her twin victims. One search conducted Christmas Day, others on the anniversary of deaths.
  8. Lucy Letby falsified documents, made false notes in her victims medical records, later beginning to document a false gradual decline wanting to show that her victims were poorly so that their collapse wasn’t as sudden unexpected or suspicion. She altered times, made up phone calls to registrars and falsely claimed doctors had reviewed her victims. She claimed a doctor had advised her to omit baby E’s feed - they hadn’t.
  9. Whenever Lucy Letby wasn’t on shift, no suspicious collapses or deaths occurred. She would go away on holiday and the unit would be calm. She returned as she said ‘back with a bang lol’ and attacked 2 babies within 24 hours back to back. A 3rd baby collapsed the following day although no verdict was reached on this charge.
  10. Dr J witnessed LL standing over baby K as she deteriorated whilst she did nothing - LL wasn’t convicted of this attack however in the grand scheme of things it is more likely than not that Dr J was telling the truth about this incident.
  11. Baby E’s mother arrived at 9pm to find her son screaming and bleeding. Lucy Letby told her to go away ‘trust me I’m a nurse’. This was the last time Baby E’s mother saw her son before she saw medics battling to save him. Lucy Letby denies this incident ever happened. Baby E was due a feed at 9pm, his mother brought milk down for this feed. Lucy letby claims she was told by a registrar to omit this feed. The registrar says this conversation never happened.
  12. Lucy Letby made a comment to a colleague about baby P ‘he’s not leaving here alive is he?’ The same day that baby P collapsed and died.
  13. Lucy Letby after realising that consultants were complaining about her suddenly filed a Datix report about baby P’s death - in it she mentioned an open port putting baby P at a ‘risk of air embolism’ - she also made a similar comment to a colleague.
  14. LL sent a sympathy card to the parents of one of her victims, she photographed one set of twin victims without parents permission. She obsessed over the babies that would go on to collapse or die texting colleagues when not even on shift, wanting updates and seemingly revelling in all the drama on the unit.
  15. LL wrote confession notes which demonstrated her desire to be perceived as a victim. ‘Not good enough’ ‘I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them’ ‘I am evil I did this’. In there notes she mentioned those she believed had wronged her in some way, her victim mentality was evident. ‘I don’t deserve Mum & Dad Tom & Matt’ ‘I will never have children or marry’
  16. LL lacked empathy on every level, the only person she felt sympathy for was herself. She only shed a tear when she heard the voice of her married ex lover, when she saw pictures of her bedroom or when her cats were mentioned. She showed no emotion while parents and colleagues discussed the desperate attempts to save tiny babies, the spreading rash and discolouration, inflated tummies, horrific screaming, parents describing holding their babies in their arms as they took their last breaths. LL made inappropriate comments to parents and colleagues saying to parents ‘you’ve had long enough put him in here now’ when their baby hadn’t yet passed away. She had to be told to stop going in and bothering grieving parents. She cheerfully described how she’d given her victim their first bath. She washed and dressed her victims and took their hand and foot prints for memory boxes
  17. Lucy Letby lied to police, changed her story, admitted to lying. Lied on the stand. Couldn’t recall anything that could have painted her in a bad light but recalled details that made her look innocent.
  18. Lucy Letby loved the pampering and attention she received from her married boyfriend. He showered her with compliments and even said he would trust her with his own children. This inflated her ego almost to bursting point and made her believe she had everyone fooled enough to attempt 3 murders within 3 days.
  19. Lucy Letby threw her colleagues under the bus one by one, it was always someone else’s fault and never her own. She refused to admit to any wrongdoing or making any mistakes, even when she claimed to not recall events, she knew she hadn’t made any errors.
  20. Lucy Letby demonstrated her victim mentality further, claiming to have PTSD from being arrested ‘in her pyjamas’ which NJ found wasnt true. She clung into a comfort blanket and stress toy on the stand and discussed her traumatic experience. All infront of parents who had lost their babies, had witnessed their children being resuscitated, had to bury their babies, had considered ending their own lives, had their relationships and family torn apart, these parents were truly traumatised. Yet Letby considered herself a victim and put on a sorry display of universal victim mentality as she sat with her comfort blanket like the only person in that court room who had been traumatised with absolutely no regard for the parents of the tiny babies killed.
  21. Lucy Letby refused to attend her sentencing, instead cowardly sitting in her cell pretending it wasn’t happening. Relishing in exercising the last element of control she had left. Denying her victims parents the chance to look in her eyes and tell her the horror she has brought upon their lives and how much she has stolen away from them with her evil actions.
My opinion is that Lucy Letby is an evil, psychopathic narcissist with a serious lack of empathy, an inflated sense of superiority, an excessive need for admiration, a sadistic woman who thrived in inflicting pain on others whilst operating under the guise of someone who cared. She has been convicted and is now a serial child killer serving 14 whole life orders. She will never be released to inflict such terror upon anyone else and the points above are only a small portion of what convicted her. This is without getting into the specifics of each case, the evidence here is overwhelming.
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Brilliantly put. Sadly the babies were far too young to plead for help or to damn Lucy Letby with their evidence. Their deaths and injuries are their only evidence.
 
Kemug said:
I was quite gobsmacked when it came out about LL's parents being present at the grievance meeting, or whatever it was called. For a 25-year-old! Did she want them there? Did they insist on being there? How did the hospital feel about it? It's (almost) unbelievable!
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Snap!

Does anybody know if this is normally allowed? ( As part of the grievance procedures, if the complainant says they are distressed, are they allowed to nominate family members/others to attend for support and is that supporter allowed to advocate on their behalf /speak for them in meetings? It just sounds irregular. )
 
Lord Peter Flimsy said:
She has had 5 years since being first arrested to explain why it couldn’t possibly be her and that she was a bit unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time over a dozen times.
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Well, she did suggest she was being framed, or something. Even though the people she suggests did the framing were hardly ever on duty when the incidents occurred. :D
 
Officer Dibble said:
This is a great insight into child psychopaths - it's a very long article that features different named people as children or as now adults. This out of all things I've read this past week helps me glean an insight into LL as a solo child and how not having siblings might have kept obvious things under wraps. JMO

Link here: When Your Child Is a Psychopath
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This is one of the most fascinating articles I’ve ever read. A goldmine of meticulously researched insights. Many thanks for posting.
 
Reading the statements made by the parents of the murdered babies was very difficult. I was sitting in a public coffee place when reading them and I needed to focus to keep tears down.

LL is the most decrepit and disgusting form of evil. She is not even a so called "angel of death", who kill severely sick people to "put them out of their misery." She killed BABIES purely because she enjoyed it. I don't understand how anyone can feel any sympathy for this monster. She needs to suffer for the rest of her life.
 
Kemug said:
I was absolutely gobsmacked when it came out about LL's parents being present at the grievance meeting, or whatever it was called. For a 25-year-old! Did she want them there? Did they insist on being there? How did the hospital feel about it? It's (almost) unbelievable!
Click to expand...
Mummy and daddy have wrapped her in cotton wool and put her on a pedestal IMO they have always been able to fix all her problems, paint her as the victim even when she’s been in the wrong and get everyone to apologise to Lucy. I imagine this has been the routine all her life. Lucy given a detention or a bad mark at school, mum and dad turn up demanding to know why their precious Lucy is being victimised and insisting there’s been a mistake.

Mummy and daddy can’t fix this mess she’s created. Mum’s ‘I did it, arrest me’ is the icing on the cake of a lifetime of Lucy getting away with everything and never facing consequences. It has eventually led to her ‘getting away with murder’. Mum and dad may be the two people she feels she has managed to gaslight successfully to the point that they believe every word she says.

However I think there may have been a factor of reputation to uphold. They seem to have been the idyllic close knit family, with the devoted nurse daughter who still holidays with them. The parents who constantly talk about their daughter’s achievements with friends.

Imagine the shame of going from telling them ‘our Lucy has been picked as the face of a campaign and is in the paper talking about the unit she works on’ or ‘our Lucy has just bought a beautiful new home’ to ‘our Lucy is suspected of being a serial baby killer’. I wonder if they have a certain reputation in the community to uphold and this is another thing that drives them to protect at all costs. Keeping up appearances and keeping anything unsavoury behind closed doors.

I must add I don’t think they are to blame for what Lucy has done, those are her evil actions and hers alone. But never being held accountable gave Lucy the belief that she is superior to everyone else and is above the law and would never have to face consequences IMO
MOO
 
Blondiexoxo said:
  1. Lucy Letby was on shift for all 22 incidents of collapse/death - not much in and of itself right?​
  2. Collapses only happened at night, while LL was on night shifts. Once LL was moved to day shifts, the collapses followed her there. And once she was removed from the unit completely, lo and behold they stopped.
  3. Lucy Letby had opportunity. She was in some cases witnessed being the last person near these babies before they collapsed. She didn’t require long to inject air into her victims. A few seconds would have been enough.
  4. Lucy Letby didn’t like not being allocated babies in room 1. This is where the itu babies were. In the case of baby C she moaned to a co worker about not being designated a room 1 baby just 6 minutes before baby C collapsed and died
  5. Lucy Letby was found with 257 handover sheets in her home, relating to many of the victims. Handover sheets that should never have left the hospital. And certainly should not have been stashed in bags for life or boxes marked ‘KEEP’
  6. Lucy Letby owned a shredder that she could have used to shred these personal documents but didn’t (even though she claims to have used the shredder for bank statements) she lied about owning the shredder, claimed to have no recollection of it, then claimed it was her parents, then claimed she brought it shortly before her arrest.
  7. Lucy Letby searched for the parents of her victims on Facebook, with a special interest in the parents of her twin victims. One search conducted Christmas Day, others on the anniversary of deaths.
  8. Lucy Letby falsified documents, made false notes in her victims medical records, later beginning to document a false gradual decline wanting to show that her victims were poorly so that their collapse wasn’t as sudden unexpected or suspicion. She altered times, made up phone calls to registrars and falsely claimed doctors had reviewed her victims. She claimed a doctor had advised her to omit baby E’s feed - they hadn’t.
  9. Whenever Lucy Letby wasn’t on shift, no suspicious collapses or deaths occurred. She would go away on holiday and the unit would be calm. She returned as she said ‘back with a bang lol’ and attacked 2 babies within 24 hours back to back. A 3rd baby collapsed the following day although no verdict was reached on this charge.
  10. Dr J witnessed LL standing over baby K as she deteriorated whilst she did nothing - LL wasn’t convicted of this attack however in the grand scheme of things it is more likely than not that Dr J was telling the truth about this incident.
  11. Baby E’s mother arrived at 9pm to find her son screaming and bleeding. Lucy Letby told her to go away ‘trust me I’m a nurse’. This was the last time Baby E’s mother saw her son before she saw medics battling to save him. Lucy Letby denies this incident ever happened. Baby E was due a feed at 9pm, his mother brought milk down for this feed. Lucy letby claims she was told by a registrar to omit this feed. The registrar says this conversation never happened.
  12. Lucy Letby made a comment to a colleague about baby P ‘he’s not leaving here alive is he?’ The same day that baby P collapsed and died.
  13. Lucy Letby after realising that consultants were complaining about her suddenly filed a Datix report about baby P’s death - in it she mentioned an open port putting baby P at a ‘risk of air embolism’ - she also made a similar comment to a colleague.
  14. LL sent a sympathy card to the parents of one of her victims, she photographed one set of twin victims without parents permission. She obsessed over the babies that would go on to collapse or die texting colleagues when not even on shift, wanting updates and seemingly revelling in all the drama on the unit.
  15. LL wrote confession notes which demonstrated her desire to be perceived as a victim. ‘Not good enough’ ‘I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them’ ‘I am evil I did this’. In there notes she mentioned those she believed had wronged her in some way, her victim mentality was evident. ‘I don’t deserve Mum & Dad Tom & Matt’ ‘I will never have children or marry’
  16. LL lacked empathy on every level, the only person she felt sympathy for was herself. She only shed a tear when she heard the voice of her married ex lover, when she saw pictures of her bedroom or when her cats were mentioned. She showed no emotion while parents and colleagues discussed the desperate attempts to save tiny babies, the spreading rash and discolouration, inflated tummies, horrific screaming, parents describing holding their babies in their arms as they took their last breaths. LL made inappropriate comments to parents and colleagues saying to parents ‘you’ve had long enough put him in here now’ when their baby hadn’t yet passed away. She had to be told to stop going in and bothering grieving parents. She cheerfully described how she’d given her victim their first bath. She washed and dressed her victims and took their hand and foot prints for memory boxes
  17. Lucy Letby lied to police, changed her story, admitted to lying. Lied on the stand. Couldn’t recall anything that could have painted her in a bad light but recalled details that made her look innocent.
  18. Lucy Letby loved the pampering and attention she received from her married boyfriend. He showered her with compliments and even said he would trust her with his own children. This inflated her ego almost to bursting point and made her believe she had everyone fooled enough to attempt 3 murders within 3 days.
  19. Lucy Letby threw her colleagues under the bus one by one, it was always someone else’s fault and never her own. She refused to admit to any wrongdoing or making any mistakes, even when she claimed to not recall events, she knew she hadn’t made any errors.
  20. Lucy Letby demonstrated her victim mentality further, claiming to have PTSD from being arrested ‘in her pyjamas’ which NJ found wasnt true. She clung into a comfort blanket and stress toy on the stand and discussed her traumatic experience. All infront of parents who had lost their babies, had witnessed their children being resuscitated, had to bury their babies, had considered ending their own lives, had their relationships and family torn apart, these parents were truly traumatised. Yet Letby considered herself a victim and put on a sorry display of universal victim mentality as she sat with her comfort blanket like the only person in that court room who had been traumatised with absolutely no regard for the parents of the tiny babies killed.
  21. Lucy Letby refused to attend her sentencing, instead cowardly sitting in her cell pretending it wasn’t happening. Relishing in exercising the last element of control she had left. Denying her victims parents the chance to look in her eyes and tell her the horror she has brought upon their lives and how much she has stolen away from them with her evil actions.
My opinion is that Lucy Letby is an evil, psychopathic narcissist with a serious lack of empathy, an inflated sense of superiority, an excessive need for admiration, a sadistic woman who thrived in inflicting pain on others whilst operating under the guise of someone who cared. She has been convicted and is now a serial child killer serving 14 whole life orders. She will never be released to inflict such terror upon anyone else and the points above are only a small portion of what convicted her. This is without getting into the specifics of each case, the evidence here is overwhelming.
Click to expand...

This should be given to LL's supporters. An eye opener. JMO
 
Konstantin said:
This is also a sign of narcissism.

Creating a mask, an identity and doing everything to maintain it. The narcissist's greatest fear is for their carefully created identity to be removed. Perhaps Perfect Lucy was part of her parents' or at least Daddy's own mask. This is all MOO and apologies if it ventures too far as her parents are not on trial and are completely innocent of any wrongdoing.

I don't believe that Lucy had a normal upbringing--this level of parental control and smothering and their own obsession with her and their "doting on" her to that extent isn't normal or healthy. Mummy and Daddy couldn't handle her being found guilty so they didn't come into court any more. Lucy also didn't come into court any more.
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Thank you for saying this it’s what I wanted to say but didn’t want to toe the line. I totally agree. Narcissism may well have been ingrained in Lucy from an early age. MOO
 
Lucy should be living a wonderful life. She had everything going for her - a good home, a loving family, enough of this world's goods, a safe country to live in, her health, pretty looks, a good education, the career of her choice, parents who helped her buy a nice house, holidays,etc, etc. Millions of people can only dream of having a life like she had. And she threw it all away.
 
Cluedoneit said:
For those of you who wonder why the doctors didn’t go to the police, this article is what happens to staff who whistleblow on an NHS Trust. Imagine you’d spent decades building up your career, have young kids and a big mortgage, would you really risk never working as a doctor again on a suspicion? They were also told that 2 external reviews found zero evidence of foul play and were not allowed to see the results. This meant any tangible evidence was being withheld.
There’s also the fact that if they went to the police, the Trust would inform the police that 2 external reviews had found nothing, the consultants had apologised to her once already and they were being referred to the GMC for bullying this poor nurse. It was retribution for her whistleblowing against them for leaving a patient out of the cot who had subsequently died amid other failures she’d pointed out. They could have ended up with a police investigation against them for harassment!
www.personneltoday.com

NHS whistleblowing scandal at one of UK's biggest trusts

NHS whistleblowing: One of the largest NHS trusts in the UK has been accused of fostering a climate of fear.
www.personneltoday.com www.personneltoday.com
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yeah and that all pales in comparison to vulnerable babies being murdered
 
Honeybirdette said:
And what if the police turned around and said yeah, it’s a bit of a coincidence but that is not enough to arrest her? Then what?
Remember no one discovered the only real cold indisputable insulin evidence until 2018. And btw, I genuinely believe if someone had discovered the insulin at the time it happened, the hospital bosses would have absolutely suspended letby there and then, because that’s hard evidence someone has committed a crime, but all they really had at the time was, ‘lucy has been on shift for all of them’ Nothing else. Realistically, You can’t suspend someone for that and the police wouldn’t have arrested her for that either. You need more than that to be taken seriously. And rightly so tbf. Can you imagine the allegations that would get thrown about if that’s all you needed to get someone arrested?

So Where does that leave them? They’ve lost their jobs. Their livelihoods, and for what? The police to drop the investigation due to a lack of evidence. I think we’re being so harsh on them here.
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for what?
for the babies of course
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Many posts have been removed. Random points to consider ...

Rumor and internet scuttlebutt is not a basis for case discussion at Websleuths. "People think ..." is not a source.

Statistics, while interesting, do not factor into individual cases. Cases are resolved through specifics relevant to it, not what happened in X number of other cases, somewhere, sometime.

Regarding a case being "circumstantial evidence", this has been explained numerous times throughout the various threads.

Most convictions are based on heavy circumstantial evidence.

The Difference between circumstantial evidence and direct evidence is that circumstantial is evidence that is open to reasonable interpretation by a reasonable person reviewing it (i.e. even autopsy results are circumstantial because they are open to interpretation, whether by the medical examiner, LE, or the public). Direct evidence on the other hand does not require interpretation (eye witness accounts, surveillance video of the murder).
 
It does beg the question had she had brothers and sisters would she have committed these despicable acts? In this particular instance being a spoilt only child who appears to have never grown up has possibly led to her selfishness and wanting to be centre of attention. JMO
 
Lord Peter Flimsy said:
It does beg the question had she had brothers and sisters would she have committed these despicable acts? In this particular instance being a spoilt only child who appears to have never grown up has possibly led to her selfishness and wanting to be centre of attention. JMO
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That seems a very tenuous reason, for me. But I'm not familiar with the data on such people. Being an only child is nothing out of the ordinary, in fact, it is increasingly the norm.

JMO.
 
I agree with a lot of the posts here about her. Particularly infantile personality. It feels to me like she has stunted development beyond early infancy. The methods of attack are totally mindless, as if the babies were not human to her but like toys she could break.

Her references to having meltdowns make me think that was a term used by others to describe her behaviour that she has adopted, but it doesn't feel age appropriate to me.

Not admitting she knew what going commando meant, feels like it comes from a little girl in front of her parents.

She even had what looks like a nursery-age photo posted in the paper for her 21st birthday, suggesting she is still seen as that little girl.

I think more than anything, she seems to have a lot of rage and intense jealousy. I think it triggered the murders/attempted murders, the babies became an easy target for her rage because they were pre-verbal, and IMO there were many people she was jealous of, colleagues and parents with their newborns. I don't think it's the entire picture, there is more to it but that feels to me like part of it.

The day before the murder of baby A she was away with her work colleagues on a hen do. I wonder if she came back from that trip jealous of the colleague who was getting married.

MOO
 
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