Why do we keep discounting this report?
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2424810&postcount=26
Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #22
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Why do we keep discounting this report?
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2424810&postcount=26
momto3kids
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:floorlaugh: I needed a good laugh tonight.
Now Roy....you can't have it both ways. You want facts and this isn't a fact now is it?:waitasec:
The attorney is bias...this is a client that is paying him. Now that is a fact if you want a fact.
Two things:
- Going by the obvious is a cop-out. If LE always followed the obvious without following the evidence, there would be many more innocents charged/convicted than there already are. Nifong went with the obvious instead of the evidence and look where it got him.
- Saying that we are waiting for the evidence and not willing to convict on hearsay, speculation, rumors, emotion, and opinion is not calling NC guilty or deserving of her murder. You are putting words in people's mouths here just as you do on the GOLO board.
When the evidence proves to me beyond a reasonable doubt that BC did it, I'll vote to convict.
jilly
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With respect, it just seems to me (from your posts) that you have put RC up on some sort of pedestal so that you can chip away at it each day.
I have known RC long enough to know that he is a sincere advocate for victims and it would be genuinely far too humble of him to consider himself a leader of this forum. He is a gentleman and well respected poster. He has earned that.
Imo, this site is the best on the internet for victims. Even though there is not much happening right now on this case, like Tricia (the owner) has said, by being here we are keeping the story alive. I'm glad you and all the other newcomers are here. Hopefully, more information will be coming out soon. In the meantime, I have to say, if it turns out that some of us are wrong, we won't be rubbing anyone's face in it. That's just not the way we operate here.
jumpstreet
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... and this datapoint (4th post down that page) from neighbor/friend Diana Duncan: that the oldest child herself has stated that she saw mommy leave to go running on Saturday morning. [ The post was also made in the early stages, in theory, when (most) everyone was still being (relatively) objective about things ]
Sure, some have speculated that maybe BC spoke on behalf of his youngest when this information was relayed. That speculation doesn't make much sense to me though... implies an exchange like- BC: "...The last time I saw Nancy was this morning... AND, my 4-year old saw her too!"
Isn't it at least a possibility that indeed the oldest told someone (Diana, and/or others) firsthand that they saw Mommy leave to go running on Saturday AM?
Not suggesting that this post on Mrs. Cooper's blog (put together by her close friend) makes it a "sealed deal" - just saying, it seems reasonable to keep it in front of us with all the other stuff...
jumpstreet
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Thanks Chauncey. Care to be a share anything more specific you've heard regarding some of the rumors/theories? (feel free to qualify them as such)...
I have been wondering whether Brad actually did see her leave at 7am. In his affidavit he only said "Nancy left for her run around 7am." Perhaps he was still on his way back from HT. He doesn't say that he saw her go, only that he had talked to her on the phone. IF someone else was involved, then 6:45 to 7am would be the perfect opportunity to find Nancy alone at the house.
I know that you have talked about the time that it would take to get back from HT. If he bought the detergent at 6:45 as he states on his affidavit, then what time would he get home? Twenty minutes is in my head, but that could have been for a different location.
Now, I know that this theory may be partly inspired by the psychic thread, so bear with me, it is ONLY a theory. But, I have always wondered if there may be someone else involved. She would be getting ready, putting things in the car (she definitely would have taken her car as this was her regular routine AND she had to go to JA's house between 8 and 9am), and someone may have taken her into another car. This scenario would mean that everything Brad said about the morning trips to the store and mundane domestic phone calls with Nancy could be TRUE
. But, his reason for leaving the house may have been to provide an opportunity for someone that he had hired to have access to Nancy. I also think that the TOD must be after 7am. Now, I do agree that this may be one of those far-out scenarios. Did anyone see another car at the Cooper house that morning? I wonder. Would they have left the children alone? Well, as Brad was expected back shortly, Nancy could have been waiting for him to return and was getting ready to leave by putting some of her things into the car. This theory also does not take into account the very early morning visit to HT. Unless, he couldn't sleep that night and decided to go out for awhile, but this seems unlikely.
Just some thoughts.
EntreNous
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It would be so wonderful for Bella & Katie if Brad did turn out to be innocent. However, if he is guilty he certainly needs to be tried and convicted and pay for the crime. What a tragedy if it turns out that those sweet little girls' own father is the one who selfishly took the single most important person in their world mercilessly away from them.
Can I ask who you'd like to see Brad sue? The grieving parents of a viciously murdered daughter who are trying to protect their granddaughters very lives? I mean sure, Brad is innocent until proven guilty but do you think the Rentz family is willing to gamble the safety of Bella & Katie just to prove that point? Would you?
Who's next? The CPD? Jessica Adam? The media?
Your comment really seems to be one of spite and stubbornness with little regard for seeking the truth or what is best for two innocent little girls.
Brad's a big boy, he's a big enough boy to have taken it upon himself to defame his dead wife who is, sadly, no longer here to defend herself. He besmirched Nancy's reputation unnecessarily in affidavits in which he was supposed to be addressing his fitness as a father. And he broke their marriage vows by having an adulterous affair. Now remind me again, who has defamed who???
SleuthyGal
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The children were home...Brad did not have the kids with him when he went on his 2 trips to HT. So if Nancy was at home, alive, between 6am and 7am, she wasn't alone. Further, if Nancy was abducted then the kids would have said something. This would be a completely different story and case. There was no 'abduction' from the home. And LE already said, at least twice, that this is not a random crime and the community is not in any danger.
That's not what DD's post said. It says, "Her husband and elder child saw her leaving for her run Saturday morning." In that one sentence you have no information about what Bella said she herself saw that morning, if anything. You don't know how DD got that info, whether it was Brad who told her that...basically there's nothing there to work with.
It very well may have been a false lead. There are lots of tall, thin, brown-haired women runners in the Lochmere area. I sure hope LE followed-up to see if there was any link to this case. Remember when Laci went missing there was at least 1 neighbor who swore she saw her out walking her dog. Turns out there was another woman in their general neighborhood who was also pregnant, who also had a golden retriever, and who took the dog for a walk. The neighbor insisted she saw Laci. But she didn't. Laci was already dead by then and would soon be on her way to SF Bay. 'Eyewitness evidence' can be some of the weakest evidence in a case.
chauncey7381
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OH MY! LIONS AND TIGERS! JMFLU has migrated here! Welcome!
Thank you for proving my viewpoint! I'll digress from rebutting "you should, you this, and you that...."
Folks on this thread are entitled to express their views, postulations, I just don't have to agree with it and you don't have to agree with mine. That doesn't make me or the others I disagree with "bad folks."
Heck, I was hoping to get a PM about the "secret meeting" last weekend.
raisincharlie
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I discount it for one reason - and this has been discussed, linked, even given the exact time in the video when it is said.
Chief Bazemore, in the 14 JUly 6:30 presser says quite clearly that as of that time there have been no confirmed sightings of Nancy. I will take her word.
chauncey7381
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Sleuthy,
He's given a timeline and said he saw her leave at 7:00---if the ME report comes back and declares TOD was before then----well...well....that changes the picture doesn't it! There are way too many conflicting stories in the affidavits, what is the truth.
I don't find it unreasonable for Mrs. Cooper to go jog for an hour and be a little late. She could have easily ran 3 miles from 7-8. I never show up on time.
chauncey7381
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Entre-nous,
As far as the Coopers marriage---he said/she said. Her friends threw the first round of dirt clogs and accused him of murder, two of them did and he's yet to be charged. He retaliated and he's under intense public scrutiny of a crime he may not have committed. I didn't live their marriage and neither did you. Mrs. Cooper told her friends many things regarding her troubled marriage, who defamed who, I personally think they both had trouble with "me me me." I posted earlier here weeks ago, in reading the affidavits why did they have kids, they were clearly living way beyond their means. Cry me a river! Talk about priorities out of whack!
My comment about litigating against those who have defamed him, have absolutely nothing to with seeking the truth about what happened to Mrs. Cooper.
If he is innocent, and he can't work anymore because his reputation is already smeared in the public arena, then yes, he should litigate against the media and anyone else who contributed to it. Can you say Duke Lacrosse case?
raisincharlie
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For those of you who find speculating and puzzling to be undignified perhaps you should have followed this thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=139
It clearly demostrates the worthiness of doing so instead of sitting back and doing nothing.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=139
It clearly demostrates the worthiness of doing so instead of sitting back and doing nothing.
jumpstreet
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Thanks SG. My thought on it is that we just continue to "keep it in front of us" along with all the other stuff. You're right, just on face value alone, we cannot infer exactly what was said, and exactly what it means. To me though the post is at the very least "of interest".
If we were to throw out everything in this case that we have "heard", but isn't "solid", then there's nothing to work with on several fronts (e.g. the alleged 4:20 AM HT trip, the LTF encounter, etc - we have no way to know exactly how that information was obtained, who told who what, etc... so using the same criteria as above, there's "nothing to work with" on these items either, and they should be discarded/discounted)
My thought is - we can keep all these things in the mix, and assign some weights to them as appropriate in forming our opinions. The only thing I suggest (while the 'jury's still out' so to speak) is that we're careful about forming an opinion, and them proceeding to discount out (or rationalize out) everything that doesn't support that opinion, simply because it doesn't support.
I think it's "natural" to do this, and somewhat human nature in general (once we have a perspective, we'll tend to give less weight to things that are counter to that perspective), so it takes a little extra effort (to keep all things front and center) if our desire is to remain objective and unbiased.
Does that make sense?
jumpstreet
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Here's a "question for discussion' for the group: If you could learn one thing for sure about this case... if you could pick one question to ask ME/LE/anyone (alive), and have a guarantee they would answer this one questions truthfully... what would it be?
[ In other words, at this point, what single piece of the puzzle would you most like to have - something that you think would help confirm (or exclude) a lot of things, etc ]
Some examples:
- To ME: What was TOD?
- To LE: What was she wearing at discovery?
- To LE: Who do you currently think did it?
- To LE: What the heck was in all those brown bags taken away from the house?
- To ME: What was COD?
- To BC: Did you do it?
- To BC: What's your favorite color?
- To Person Who Discovered Her: How Are You Holding Up?
- To Eldest Child: Did you see Mommy on Saturday morning?
- To JA: Did you do it?
Anyway - what one thing (and just one) would you most like to know (can be from the above, or something else). It's just a "hypothetical" exercise, for discussion. Participate if you like... or not.
[ In other words, at this point, what single piece of the puzzle would you most like to have - something that you think would help confirm (or exclude) a lot of things, etc ]
Some examples:
- To ME: What was TOD?
- To LE: What was she wearing at discovery?
- To LE: Who do you currently think did it?
- To LE: What the heck was in all those brown bags taken away from the house?
- To ME: What was COD?
- To BC: Did you do it?
- To BC: What's your favorite color?
- To Person Who Discovered Her: How Are You Holding Up?
- To Eldest Child: Did you see Mommy on Saturday morning?
- To JA: Did you do it?
Anyway - what one thing (and just one) would you most like to know (can be from the above, or something else). It's just a "hypothetical" exercise, for discussion. Participate if you like... or not.
(Bolding is mine)
With all due respect, and I will keep this short since it is OT, Nifong went against evidence, logic and obviousness, and stuck with this distorted POV, even after his disbarment hearing. He stated to the end "something happened in that house to cause everyone to leave in such a hurry."
Man talk about
ther_beatingA_DeadCyberPro
raisincharlie
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Here's a "question for discussion' for the group: If you could learn one thing for sure about this case... if you could pick one question to ask ME/LE/anyone (alive), and have a guarantee they would answer this one questions truthfully... what would it be?
[ In other words, at this point, what single piece of the puzzle would you most like to have - something that you think would help confirm (or exclude) a lot of things, etc ]
Some examples:
- To ME: What was TOD?
- To LE: What was she wearing at discovery?
- To LE: Who do you REALLY think did it?
- To LE: What the heck was in all those brown bags taken away from the house?
- To ME: What was COD?
- To BC: Did you do it?
- To BC: What's your favorite color?
- To Person Who Discovered Her: How Are You Holding Up?
- To Eldest Child: Did you see Mommy on Saturday morning?
- To JA: Did you do it?
Anyway - what one thing (and just one) would you most like to know (can be from the above, or something else). It's just a "hypothetical" exercise, for discussion. Participate if you like... or not.
Who actually made the 6:40 phone call Brad claims he got on his way to the store. LE - who did it.
TOD will be a range given Nancy was exposed to high heat as well as rain over three days. COD - dead is dead and this doesn't include or exclude anyone. Will find out shortly what was in the bags - maybe.
No questions for anyone else.
chauncey7381
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Jumpstreet---
TOD.
Regarding rumor/innuendo stuff I'd rather not be associated with that on a public thread, because there is always a chance it may not be 100% accurate.
I do know someone, who knows someone who is associated with LE at the discovery site. I have been told about Mrs. Cooper's physical condition when found, I will not say anything about it publicly until the autopsy is revealed.
TOD.
Regarding rumor/innuendo stuff I'd rather not be associated with that on a public thread, because there is always a chance it may not be 100% accurate.
I do know someone, who knows someone who is associated with LE at the discovery site. I have been told about Mrs. Cooper's physical condition when found, I will not say anything about it publicly until the autopsy is revealed.
I'm not Quincy, nor did I play him on TV, but I seriously doubt that we are going to get a TOD that will confirm or refute a timeline that is that close. We will only get TOD to within a day or so. After core body temprature drops to become equal with surrounding areas, it relies on decomposition rates and insect waves, and those are only accurate to within a period of hours, at best and days at the outside.
This is based upon reading several ME reports, and somewhat more extensive reading of records of murder victims postmortem reports, with a seasoning of web sites. Someone with better knowledge, PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.
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