2009.03.12 Casey Anthony Motion Hearing

[Hot Dogs]

So the hairs, were they found in the trunk or in the car?

It's explained in this thread in the previous few pages.

As far as I know, no hairs were ever collected from the car interior (cabin). They all seem to have come from the trunk itself and items that were in the trunk.

 

[travelgal]

I may be way off bringing this up, but what happened to deliberation regarding the video of Casey & Baez when Caylee's remains were found?? Was yesterdays hearing not for that purpose?

 

[RR0004]

It's explained in this thread in the previous few pages.

As far as I know, no hairs were ever collected from the car interior (cabin). They all seem to have come from the trunk itself and items that were in the trunk.

According to the defense...or from Lee? Just trying to save time. Doesn't the defense have to send over all their info under discovery to LE? I would like to read their reports as well.

 

[RR0004]

I may be way off bringing this up, but what happened to deliberation regarding the video of Casey & Baez when Caylee's remains were found?? Was yesterdays hearing not for that purpose?

I sure as heck thought so. A few issues seem to have gotten lost recently.

 

[TakeNote]

I still dont understand the point JB was trying to make about more hairs....does he think that LE missed finding zanny the nanny's hair? lets see
kc didnt have a phone number for her
or address where she lived
no pictures, or emails or Im's
but there maybe zanny's hair in the trunk?
I think if they find any more hairs with the death band ...the defense is barking up the wrong tree......hairs....who cares about the hairs....what was he trying to prove...the garbage bag is what he was wanting to say he or they didnt get to see....well to bad!...this is an ongoing investagation.....Defense keeps crying about not being able to right there under the nose of LE.....KC does not have the right to be first hand of an investagation for the murder of Caylee.....gzzz....

ok....Im done

 

[Hot Dogs]

According to the defense...or from Lee? Just trying to save time. Doesn't the defense have to send over all their info under discovery to LE? I would like to read their reports as well.

According to the OCSO doc dumps.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have a cluster of anxiety disorders, and I take xanax(legally prescribed). For me, it makes me much more focused....it really just makes me feel 'normal' again.
Unless she took took a higher dose than what was required, or it wasnt required at all. But then she wouldnt be fiddling with the pen, adjusting her cardi every 5 secs etc....she would be totally chilled.

She was way too fidgety for someone on AA meds IMO.
JMO

Yep, ITA with you about the meds.

I see her as extremely self-conscious and IMO that's why she is fidgety- anxiety, nerves... knowing tons of people are watching and judging her every move. One more behavior I have added to my growing list of things that indicate (to me) that Casey does indeed feel things.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm not sure that Baez was specifically trying to impeach the CSI. It's more like he was getting facts from the CSI that might be used to show a systemic issue with OCSO. The closest he came to impeaching the CSI was when he looked down at the report expecting to see the bit about Lee asking to see the white bag.

The point is that the defense may be able to show that OCSO reports do not match the bench notes. That there are omissions or possibly twists (we found those 14 hairs, not Lee) when the reports are made. The defense may try to suggest that almost any kind of potentially exonerating info or evidence might be intentionally left out of reports. Or that the intent was to make OCSO look more competent (we don't need Lee to help us find every collectable hair).

That theme of omissions could be carried to other areas of OCSO investigation. We know that OCSO computer forensics found instances of searching for "chloroform", "shovel", "breaking neck", etc. But did OCSO omit from their report searches for things like "Proud Mom" T-shirts or "teaching your child to read", etc? You could say no way would this daughter-killer be looking for that kind of stuff. But if omissions were being made in the preparation of reports, you'll never know about them.

Wow... scary stuff. That would suck if she killed Caylee and got away with it.

 

[NewsHound22]

Yep, ITA with you about the meds.

I see her as extremely self-conscious and IMO that's why she is fidgety- anxiety, nerves... knowing tons of people are watching and judging her every move. One more behavior I have added to my growing list of things that indicate (to me) that Casey does indeed feel things.

Only if it involves her feelings..when its all about her. I noticed that too, she was making me nervous watching her. She was actually picking lint or something, from her clothing. I dont think that her clothes fit her nicely anymore. I agree, she is extremely self conscious.

 

[ecs5298]

Wow... scary stuff. That would suck if she killed Caylee and got away with it.

Fear not, OLG! Even if by some stretch of the imagination that JB is able to cast doubt on the forensics, the jury will never be able to get past the 31 days and the partying and the tattoo and the bella vida that KC was living. Nor the fact that she has never once shown any kind of real emotion about anyone except herself.

 

[RR0004]

According to the OCSO doc dumps.

There seems to have been a lot of examination of hairs for possible decomp, but this info was compiled from the FBI 's findings. I don't know the date of this report, nor who compiled the info.

http://www.editgrid.com/user/evi/FBI_Evidence_Tests

 

[Hot Dogs]

There seems to have been a lot of examination of hairs for possible decomp, but this info was compiled from the FBI 's findings. I don't know the date of this report, nor who compiled the info.

http://www.editgrid.com/user/evi/FBI_Evidence_Tests

From that linked compilation, I really can't say that no hairs were found in the interior. Can't say that there were any hairs found there either. They vacuumed areas to look for hairs with decomp banding. It doesn't say if they found any hairs or not. It just lets you know that they didn't find any hairs with banding. It has a certain ambiguity like other report statements (were KC's fingerprints on the duct tape that excluded other family members?).

I gotta believe there were human hairs in the interior. There is just no referencing of any with item numbers. Just "vacuum sweepings".

BTW, thanks. That is a nice spreadsheet and I'm going to save it.

 

[RR0004]

Ok...so am I right to think that 12 hairs were found initially...and that additional hairs were found in the trash that Dr. Haskell examined?

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530418/detail.html



http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0126/18565684.pdf ITEM #8

 

[Hot Dogs]

That looks right. In another doc there are 7 hairs mentioned (found prior to Lee's arrival). They could be some of the same.

 

[Lanie]

I'm not sure exactly how any of this discredits OCSO or the CSI's. I went back and read the docs again regarding the finding of hair by Dr. Lee. 3 hairs were found in the garbage. The doc states "we" found these hairs. At least one CSI was present with Lee as he took the garbage out of the bag. IMO, that means Lee and whatever CSIs were present with Lee found the hairs. There is no reason for the CSI to lie about this, even assuming this CSI is unethical and would lie about evidence collection. This garbage has been established as coming from TonE's house. TonE verified it in other docs somewhere. Therefore, any hair found could have come from anyone who was ever in TonE's house or even came in contact with TonE from the time that trashbag was put into use until it was tied to be tossed. Also, as much as CBS would like us to believe otherwise, it is not common practice to test every single piece of hair and fiber found. It would take a very long time and cost way too much money to be practical. That takes us to hair #4, found by and credited to Lee in the trunk of the car. The same trunk suspected because of other evidence found in it to have been used to transport Caylee's body. If a CSI were going to lie about who found what hair just to make them look better, this would be the hair to lie about, IMO. Yet, it states very clearly in the document this hair was pointed out by Lee and collected by the CSI. The rest of the hairs found were reported to have been found after Lee left, so I can't help but wonder why Baez is claiming Lee found 17 hairs, because I don't see it, unless they are saying 'hair' for multiple hairs, which IMO doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, back to the hair found in the trash. I'm not sure, because I don't have formal training, if that is a big deal or not. I lean towards it isn't, because I don't think they tested everything in the trash for DNA or fingerprints or fibers, either. The reality is these people operate on a limited budget, with limited manhours, this is not their only case, and the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Lanie

 

[Searchfortruth]

This may be OT...
LKB could be a huge mistake, IMO, for the defense come trial time. As a southerner, I strongly feel that a Florida jury may, ok probably WILL, dislike her. She seems loud, obnoxious and not the least bit dignified. At any rate, I hope she doesn't change a thing !

 

[RR0004]

I'm not sure exactly how any of this discredits OCSO or the CSI's. I went back and read the docs again regarding the finding of hair by Dr. Lee. 3 hairs were found in the garbage. The doc states "we" found these hairs. At least one CSI was present with Lee as he took the garbage out of the bag. IMO, that means Lee and whatever CSIs were present with Lee found the hairs. There is no reason for the CSI to lie about this, even assuming this CSI is unethical and would lie about evidence collection. This garbage has been established as coming from TonE's house. TonE verified it in other docs somewhere. Therefore, any hair found could have come from anyone who was ever in TonE's house or even came in contact with TonE from the time that trashbag was put into use until it was tied to be tossed. Also, as much as CBS would like us to believe otherwise, it is not common practice to test every single piece of hair and fiber found. It would take a very long time and cost way too much money to be practical. That takes us to hair #4, found by and credited to Lee in the trunk of the car. The same trunk suspected because of other evidence found in it to have been used to transport Caylee's body. If a CSI were going to lie about who found what hair just to make them look better, this would be the hair to lie about, IMO. Yet, it states very clearly in the document this hair was pointed out by Lee and collected by the CSI. The rest of the hairs found were reported to have been found after Lee left, so I can't help but wonder why Baez is claiming Lee found 17 hairs, because I don't see it, unless they are saying 'hair' for multiple hairs, which IMO doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, back to the hair found in the trash. I'm not sure, because I don't have formal training, if that is a big deal or not. I lean towards it isn't, because I don't think they tested everything in the trash for DNA or fingerprints or fibers, either. The reality is these people operate on a limited budget, with limited manhours, this is not their only case, and the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Lanie

I agree...I'm not seeing it either. If anything, reading through the reports, I see a very thorough investigation going on. IMO this is the only "defense" the defense has...attack, attack, attack. They're just trying to make LE look bad. Same 'ole, same 'ole if you ask me. I'm not saying that LE is infallible, but the scientific evidence is what it is.

 

[Theonly1]

In spite of being stopped by objections, Baez was able to show:

1) The CSI is unfamiliar with his own reports. He thought the white bag question posed by Lee was in the report. It isn't.

2) The CSI remembers things about the meeting with Lee that aren't in the reports.

3) The bench notes contained more information than the resultant reports.

4) The bench notes are destroyed soon after the daily reports are created.


I think that many posters in the thread yesterday were so focused on Baez's amateur demeanor that the missed what he was able to show in his line of questioning and his statements (which were affirmed by the CSI).

Great post, Hot Dog. Let's assume that you're 100% correct and that Baez made all these points (which I'm not sure he did but for assumptions sake let's say he did). In my opinion, Baez's "amateur demeanor" (your words--love them!) detracted from the points he was trying to make and made it impossible for me (who has somewhat of a legal mind--hehe) to understand that he may have in fact made "points". It doesn't matter if you are getting admissions all over the place if the jury is too busy laughing at you or trying to understand what you are saying, KWIM? In my opinion, all that came from the defense table was a damn HOT MESS!

In my opinion, Baez needs to sit down and formulate this questions beforehand and ask himself exactly what he wants to get out of the witness and the best question to go about getting that answer. He needs to cut off avenues that the witness can go into and FOCUS in on the answer he wants. He needs to not veer off onto other topics and ask simple questions (not compound questions). When he goes into objectionable territory (per the State and Judge's sustained objection) then he needs to be able to "pick up" and move on. Or figure out another way to get at the answer he wants! Think on his feet. I'm sorry, but I see a real "shattershot" approach to his questioning and not a sniper-style. He also would benefit (my opinion) on taking some public speaking classes and learn not to say "ummmmmmmmmmm" all the time, or grandstand, not react to things he does not like with angry facial expressions, etc.

 

[Theonly1]

What I find super amusing is that the defense gave the State a little glimpse into how the defense plans on "treating" the State's witnesses. Oh goodie gumdrops!

So the defense is going to make a big deal about bench notes from every expert witness? This means that the State can turn around and demand the exact same thing from every one of the defense's expert witnesses! Whhhheeeee. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

 

[Theonly1]

Yep, ITA with you about the meds.

I see her as extremely self-conscious and IMO that's why she is fidgety- anxiety, nerves... knowing tons of people are watching and judging her every move. One more behavior I have added to my growing list of things that indicate (to me) that Casey does indeed feel things.

Sociopaths can feel anger towards others and fear for themselves.