Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #2

[SouthAussie]

I think you’re right, what we’ve heard of her behaviour does seem at odds with that theory but I think also humans are notoriously complex & addiction only increases that complexity.

Its possibly also just my sincere hope that a mother wouldn’t do something so awful, but I realise that sadly she wouldn’t be the first.

I really hope they have some forensic evidence too. I’d hate for nobody to end up being held accountable for such an awful crime.

I can't think of a case where a mother has shot her child in the face. (Though mothers have shot their children).
It would seem highly unusual. And more likely that an allegedly murderous potential "stepfather" might not care where the child is shot, as long as the child dies.

imo

 

[JLZ]

I just hope the prosecution have some tangible forensic evidence linking him to the actual murder …. Perhaps they are saving that for later in the trial…. Closer to closing arguments ????

JS is pleading guilty to the disposal of Charlise, and the Police seem to have plenty of evidence regarding that matter. Is there any physical evidence yet that says who actually shot the poor child and exactly when?

I have to admit I find the “loving mother scenario” a little incongruent with her actions over that time, that have, so far, been presented to the court….

JMO

I don't need forensics. I'll hear the evidence through and conceivably something might change my mind. But this is like the beautiful young lady/hooded hag optical illusion. I can't see where some of the rest of you are finding doubt.

 

[SLouTh]

I can't think of a case where a mother has shot her child in the face. (Though mothers have shot their children).
It would seem highly unusual. And more likely that an allegedly murderous potential "stepfather" might not care where the child is shot, as long as the child dies.

imo

The alleged misuse of drugs does however cloud the waters …. People do not act in a rational way when on a “bender” …

Why go to bed if you think / know your child is missing in a foreign environment ???

MOOO

 

[SLouTh]

I don't need forensics. I'll hear the evidence through and conceivably something might change my mind. But this is like the beautiful young lady/hooded hag optical illusion. I can't see where some of the rest of you are finding doubt.

There is nothing yet that puts his finger on the trigger …. I really hope the prosecution do have that ….. were there any prints on the bullet extracted ???
Have they matched the bullet with the rifle found …??? one would assume they have??? Perhaps tomorrow they may present the ballistics report??

From my experience, you can never ever trust an addict …. They are compulsive liars …

I am just not convinced yet, it was a “solo” perpetrator murder….

Perhaps his lawyer is doing a good job to cast doubt … but there is long way to go … they expect 6 weeks for the trial …


But JMO

 

[drsleuth]

I shudder to think why Charlise was given seroquel ( Quetiapine ) - it's a very powerful antipsychotic. Unlikely she took it willingly / accidentally IMO

Also comes in slow release ( modified release )

Alone with Stein.

I also imagine that Stein would have been on a pretty high dose.

 

[JLZ]

There is nothing yet that puts his finger on the trigger …. I really hope the prosecution do have that ….. were there any prints on the bullet extracted ???

I've heard of getting prints from casings, but from the bullet itself? Shot into flesh (which would have a wiping action, I would think) and then left there for several days of decomposition? Is that possible?

 

[SLouTh]

I've heard of getting prints from casings, but from the bullet itself? Shot into flesh (which would have a wiping action, I would think) and then left there for several days of decomposition? Is that possible?

Quite right .. I wasn’t thinking clearly …

 

[Kemug]

In Jo

The Daily Mail report from todays court….

The court was played a phone call which Justin Stein allegedly made to his mother days after his arrest, where he says he witnessed the moment the nine-year-old was shot.

In the call, Stein's mother, Annemie Stein, begged her son not to say the fatal shooting occurred on the family's luxury Mount Wilson property in the Blue Mountains, west of Sydney.

In reply, Stein agreed and said instead it was 'on crown land, behind the shed, on the fire break'.

She obviously didn't want her business and livelihood to be affected. I would like to think that she wasn't quite as upset about that as about the lovely little girl who had been killed.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I shudder to think why Charlise was given seroquel ( Quetiapine ) - it's a very powerful antipsychotic. Unlikely she took it willingly / accidentally IMO

Also comes in slow release ( modified release )

Alone with Stein.

I also imagine that Stein would have been on a pretty high dose.

Yes agree with you on the motive here and hate that.

I do wonder if Stein gave Charlise Seroquel and she was sick and vomiting from it. Seroquel can have a strong sedative and calming effect so I hope that Charlise was somewhat emotionally protected from the reality of what was happening.
Seroquel: 7 things you should know - Drugs.com.

 

[MIG214222]

It sounds to me like she was in the grips of an ongoing addiction but loved her daughter deeply. I also suspect this is why her parents decided to risk letting CM stay in her care for an extended time.

Charlise Mutten shot directly in the face with gun only a foot away - *Warning* re the linked article, it's graphic* - My heart breaks & weeps for Charlise's extended family, her little school friends, the staff & the Community who loved her; I hope they have lots of support now that the trial is at this high-exposure stage.

Hi @discostu & all engaged in Charlise's devastating case:

I have no doubt KM 'loved-CM-deeply', tragically she also loved herself - but not in a healthy way & her addiction as much if not more, to the point where she was prepared to lie *again* to her parents, herself & countless others; and this *after* she made a public declaration to the sentencing court: Fatal driver's horrifying mistake caught on camera - the article contains *some* of her other *mistakes*, she went on to make a 'heartfelt' vow, to the family of her friend, whose death KM was responsible for: "I will do everything in my power to carry her with me and not to waste my life." And good-golly-Miss-Molly - she sure did, she went on more benders, hookeded up with a felon, went on at least one break-&enter with him - (that we know of), and-the-rest...

With respect to all, & not wishing to get into back-and-forth-arguments: IMO - I contend:

• Charlise was not prioritised above all else.
• Her grandparents were stupid to believe their daughter.
• JS had CA on his phone Man accused of killing Charlise Mutten hit with more charges - behind paywall - (not related to Charlise) BUT, had she lived & was not a gutsy, fierce child with self-respect, perhaps images of her may have ended up on his phone?

Finally:
(imo) again with respect, WS needs a 'Liar-counter', for posts, from at-the-moment-alleged-perpetrator(s), if this one has not been added to the porkies told by JS, it should be:

CM's toxicology - it was reported (again cannot find the Neurophen reference, so MOO), that JS told LE he'd given Charlise Neurophen, the tox report & toxicologist say: Quetiapine, found in her stomach, so - "ingested" approximately six-hours prior to her death

All moo, imo - where required.
Edit, found one of the MSM articles, added.

 

[Marg944]

A little bit more information from The North West Star News……

“Forensic pathologist Dr Marna Du Plessis told the court on Thursday it was possible the girl was shot first in the back and then afterwards in the face at close range - although decomposition made the exact range difficult to determine.

Charlise was shot from behind in the pelvis area and again in the face under the right cheek bone, from "right to left, front to back, and upwards," according to part of an autopsy report read to the jury.

Hemorrhaging suggested she was still alive when she suffered the gunshot to her back, the court was told.

Also on Thursday, the former partner of Stein's mother, Annemie, told the jury she bought her son a cabin in the caravan park the pair was frequenting while Charlise was visiting, in an attempt to get his life back on track after being released from jail.

"She bought him a little place on the Hawkesbury River," he said.

"I think the principal reason was that Justin could have a place for himself, where he could establish himself."

Schoolgirl 'still alive' when shot twice in back, face

Schoolgirl Charlise Mutten was likely shot twice, in the lower back and then the face before her body...

www.northweststar.com.au

 

[JBowie]

Justin. Never mind.

I wish I could read some of these articles without having to look at his face.

Thanks. I'm getting the impression that most of the characters involved in this story are unsavory to put it mildly.

It would be interesting to know Stein's criminal record. Sounds like he's well known to police.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks. I'm getting the impression that most of the characters involved in this story are unsavory to put it mildly.

It would be interesting to know Stein's criminal record. Sounds like he's well known to police.

I think we will hear his criminal history and if any of it shows proclivities, after the trial.

MSM just has to continue to honour sub judice at the moment.

I hope we eventually get to hear what happened in court on Monday. Well, I think I hope we get to hear it. It could be distressing, and there is certainly plenty of distressing stuff in this case already.

imo

 

[JBowie]

In Jo

She obviously didn't want her business and livelihood to be affected. I would like to think that she wasn't quite as upset about that as about the lovely little girl who had been killed.

Yep, I've read elsewhere that Stein's mother had "issues" with Mutten. For instance:

[Stein and his mother] also discussed the fact that Kallista was pregnant because, Stein explained, her medication 'f'ed with the contraception', the jury heard.

'So it's going to be born an ice addict,' Annemie allegedly asked her son in the call.

Stein had earlier said in the call that 'I don't want to have it', but Annemie replied that Kallista 'is going to have it', the court heard.

Annemie also said to her son in the call that Kallista had once threatened that 'she was going to take you and me down', the court heard. [bbm]

Jury told of schoolgirl's last words before she was allegedly shot

The court was played a phone call which Justin Stein allegedly made to his mother days after his arrest, where he says he witnessed the moment nine year old Charlise Mutten was shot.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MIG214222]

I wish I could read some of these articles without having to look at his face.

Hi @JLZ,
I hear you!!
My solution, I have a post-it-note, with a huge-red-blob on it, the second his smarmy dial flickers on the screen, he gets obliterated, works a charm

 

[JBowie]

I hope that the prosecution makes a great effort to prove to the jury what a compulsive liar Stein is.

 

[nightrider17]

This article is from 2022 - seems there was confusion about what clothing CM may have been wearing.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/unusual-detail-in-search-for-missing-girl-charlise-mutten/news-story/2fd48e64277091a4b17e4291e03a3179

There has also been reports of some confusion around what Charlise was wearing at the time of her disappearance.

She was intitally believed to have been wearing a pink top with a round neck collar, a black knee-length skirt and pink Nike thongs.

However, according to the Daily Mail, Charlise’s mum and her partner haven’t been able to recall exactly what she was wearing when they last saw her, a police officer telling search crews that “unfortunately” they “don’t know what she is wearing”.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does anyone remember if Thread 1 got pulled? I can't find it anywhere, and I wanted to refresh myself on something.

I am vaguely remembering (I think) a few things. Like maybe vomit was found on the verandah at Wildenstein.

imo

 

[SLouTh]

Does anyone remember if Thread 1 got pulled? I can't find it anywhere, and I wanted to refresh myself on something.

I am vaguely remembering (I think) a few things. Like maybe vomit was found on the verandah at Wildenstein.

imo

Yes …. The thread about Charlise was removed when Stein was charged … it was very frustrating as there was so much info in there ….

IMO

 

[Marg944]

I think we will hear his criminal history and if any of it shows proclivities, after the trial.

MSM just has to continue to honour sub judice at the moment.

I hope we eventually get to hear what happened in court on Monday. Well, I think I hope we get to hear it. It could be distressing, and there is certainly plenty of distressing stuff in this case already.

imo

I agree, it is so strange that we didn’t hear anything about Mondays proceedings!

I wonder if the jury will be told of the child sexual abuse charges that Stein has been charged with, which were placed on him from being investigated for Charlise’s murder, which still have to be dealt with?

News from March 2023…..

“While in custody at Silverwater Jail last year, the 31-year-old was charged with possessing two unauthorised firearms and ammunition.

Police allege he stole them from a neighbouring property in August 2021 during an aggravated break in. Police do not believe the rifle and shotgun were used to kill Charlise.

Her would-be stepfather was also charged with possessing 21 videos that portrayed child sexual abuse but are not related to Charlise.

Stein is now facing 10 charges, including murder, improperly interfering with a dead body, possession of authorised firearms and ammunition, aggravated break and enter, and possession of child abuse material.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/alleged-killer-of-charlise-mutten-to-stay-behind-bars-on-remand/news-story/c6d76ba91e63eaee8b4ac42b7fc31c52

I can’t find the article now, but I only read it this afternoon, that there were 21 videos depicting child abuse material, and these were in the category of Category 1 and Category 2 on the COPINE scale:-

https://www.publicdefenders.nsw.gov.au/Documents/s91h-crimes-act-child-abuse-material.pdf

IMHO