IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #15

[cluciano63]

I dont understand what makes these 2 are relevant to the case. These are only based on rumors. If police did not identify them it was obviously because there were not relevant. There are 3 high interest POIs in 5 North. Lets not forget that the story that does not add up is LS leaving 5 North at 4.30 AM. That's where the real problem seems to be and these 2 new initials are obviously unrelated to that. JMO.

The police did not really identify anyone...some names came out through the media. I can't find where the police called anyone a POI by name and we don't know who the entire "10 or so" are. They could include these people.

 

[jjenny]

The police did not really identify anyone...some names came out through the media. I can't find where the police called anyone a POI by name and we don't know who the entire "10 or so" are. They could include these people.

I very much doubt AA is a POI, considering police haven't even talked to him at the time AA talked to reporters.

 

[WideOpen]

Glad that we can finally use ZO and AB's initials. That being said, the initials of the person who found the keys is AA, NOT AB. It is NOT the same person as the one referenced in TG's article. AA and his friend both saw the keys, one moved them to the hand rail, and neither has any more to do with the case. Except that AA was interviewed by MSM, told what he saw and that LE hadn't, at the time of that interview spoken to him yet.
AB is room mates with ZO, and since ZO got in an altercation with CR while he was hanging out with LS, I would certainly name ZO as a POI. AB bears a strong resemblance to the man reportedly sighted with LS at 3:38.

Thanks! Went back to edit my error.

So what is your theory on when or how the keys ended up prior to 3 am. in that alley?

 

[sandangel]

I have been stuck on the keys from early on.
Reportedly Amin finds the keys while walking through the gravel parking lot just before 3am. The last sighting of video of LS is 2:51 am so is there a 9 minute window where LS lost the keys at this point. However, Amin did not pick the keys up. The next person to come across the keys is Aminx friend. He picks them up and puts them on the rail. This account was given by Amin very early on in the investigation. There is an article reporting this I just dont have the link, sorry. All of the key business happened in the early morning hours just after LS was reported to be seen on video at 2:51 am. All very hinky to me.
JMO

All I can say is that there were sure a lot of people walking around all hours of the morning, even 3am and after. Strange. And nobody seems to know anything.

 

[bx2]

All I can say is that there were sure a lot of people walking around all hours of the morning, even 3am and after. Strange. And nobody seems to know anything.

This is why I always thought it was strange that LE didn't talk to AA. Not because of the keys, but because he is putting himself in the same vicinity within minutes of LS last verified location.

That being said, AA is allowed to go to LE himself too.

 

[elmomom]

Since I believe AA's story, I think LS probably dropped her key/wallet at the time she was moving through the alley on the way to 5 North. That's about all I know for sure.. I do think that it took a long time for her to get from Smallwood to the alley, indicating that it was not just a simple walk, and there was that awkward way that LE said they had pictures of LE and the activities there... so my feeling is that something happened - whether she stumbled and fell, or met another person (and was carried) or whatever else - something must have happened to her to suddenly drop that item there. Especially if it was around her wrist like some have claimed.
What I want to know is where the jacket she had over her arm on the way out that evening ended up. I find it interesting that no mention of that item ever seems to come up (other than here).

 

[bx2]

What I want to know is where the jacket she had over her arm on the way out that evening ended up. I find it interesting that no mention of that item ever seems to come up (other than here).

I posted this last night, sorry for the repeat, but I believe that she was probably wearing it. Remember the initial description, seemingly from witness and video, has her wearing a loose fitting, light colored, button down shirt.

Adding link to missing person's report that also mentions long sleeves.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/11173

 

[elmomom]

I posted this last night, sorry for the repeat, but I believe that she was probably wearing it. Remember the initial description, seemingly from witness and video, has her wearing a loose fitting, light colored, button down shirt.

Maybe. But.
If you look at the picture of her that was released, the white shirt can be described as that. I am almost sure I see a button, the sleeves are large and the shirt is loose fitting, and white is light colored. So it is my assumption that she had on a tank or camisole, the outer white shirt, and was carrying a jacket.

 

[bx2]

Maybe. But.
If you look at the picture of her that was released, the white shirt can be described as that. I am almost sure I see a button, the sleeves are large and the shirt is loose fitting, and white is light colored. So it is my assumption that she had on a tank or camisole, the outer white shirt, and was carrying a jacket.

I don't know, can't say I'd ever describe that as a button down. I think she put on the long-sleeve shirt she has in her hand from the pic. I think the white v-neck shirt could look like a tank top underneath to someone describing her.

You said yourself no mention of it ever comes up, isn't the simplest answer to that because she had it on? Or how about putting it this way: If she was wearing it, wouldn't all descriptions as we know them fit? Sorry not going down without a fight on my single a-ha moment

 

[TobyWong*]

Hm, i dont believe we are talking about the same shack?
Its due north of here, straight across 11th street about 30 or 40 feet?

​

Just looking through the pictures and I'm really starting to think she might have had something happen here in the gravel lot.
Maybe cr txtd mb about the fight at Smallwood, mb gathers jr and friend and head out the back and see cr and Lauren. cr needs assist back to apartment, mb takes him and comes back to jr w/ a fading Lauren.I imagine they look around and they either think "car" "get the body away" or they look and think "hide the body".
I think the resaon mb says she was there is cause cr was woken early ish by jw who had her phone and had read the txts between them so he woke up and said "I was with her then we headed back here but I don't remember any of it" Maybe jr and house guest and mb all were working hard thru the a.m hours and wer'nt back to see if cr was up yet. I don't know, just thinking out loud.
mb then says "yea I saw her but just for a minute and she went to jr's" it just slips out cause he was w/ him thru the ordeal. jr says "yea she was here but she wanted to walk home." "I saw her go thata way"
By this time the friend could be gone w/ evidence or maybe all evidence was gathered to gether, all the clothes along w/ Lauren and taken???
It's a way for me to reason no fluid evidence found anywhere.
Just random changing theories of mine.​

 

[elmomom]

I don't know, can't say I'd ever describe that as a button down. I think she put on the long-sleeve shirt she has in her hand from the pic. I think the white v-neck shirt could look like a tank top underneath to someone describing her.

You said yourself no mention of it ever comes up, isn't the simplest answer to that because she had it on? Or how about putting it this way: If she was wearing it, wouldn't all descriptions as we know them fit? Sorry not going down without a fight on my single a-ha moment

Well, the best I can do is say maybe. Truce?

(hey! what happened to the clinking beer glass smilies??? I can't find them!)

 

[sv614]

All these MSM stories are fueling the fire ... I think the mainstream is starting to believe it's Lauren. A friend of mine was in the Hamptons this weekend and sent me an article as if she was sure it meant they found Lauren. She was in the Hamptons with people that are a part of the larger Northeast/Midwest Schools/wealthy/etc. crowd who this really hits home for and there seemed to be much chatter about this today amongst them.

I think it's really eerie that if you look on a map, Fall Creek is on the way to JR's hometown in Michigan.

I can't see there being more than one of the small groups involved in this. For me, CR and MB are a group. JW and ZO/AB are a group. JR I see as singled out, with his mystery houseguest being a part of his group if that story is in fact true. I do not see any of the groups working together.

Does anybody, a local perhaps, know how soon after LS was reported missing JR left Bloomington?

 

[Berk13]

All these MSM stories are fueling the fire ... I think the mainstream is starting to believe it's Lauren. A friend of mine was in the Hamptons this weekend and sent me an article as if she was sure it meant they found Lauren. She was in the Hamptons with people that are a part of the larger Northeast/Midwest Schools/wealthy/etc. crowd who this really hits home for and there seemed to be much chatter about this today amongst them.

I think it's really eerie that if you look on a map, Fall Creek is on the way to JR's hometown in Michigan.

I can't see there being more than one of the small groups involved in this. For me, CR and MB are a group. JW and ZO/AB are a group. JR I see as singled out, with his mystery houseguest being a part of his group if that story is in fact true. I do not see any of the groups working together.

Does anybody, a local perhaps, know how soon after LS was reported missing JR left Bloomington?

I'm curious - why do you view JW and ZO/AB as a group? As TG reported today, there is no evidence that JW knows ZO or AB. Also, if you look at all three of their Facebook profiles, JW is not friends with either of them. I don't think JW is connected to ZO or AB at all.

 

[Tr.]

I'm curious - why do you view JW and ZO/AB as a group? As TG reported today, there is no evidence that JW knows ZO or AB. Also, if you look at all three of their Facebook profiles, JW is not friends with either of them. I don't think JW is connected to ZO or AB at all.

That would be an interesting twist.
The assumption I had has been that JW's buds (ZO & AB) confronted CR because he was with JW's girl.

 

[sv614]

I'm curious - why do you view JW and ZO/AB as a group? As TG reported today, there is no evidence that JW knows ZO or AB. Also, if you look at all three of their Facebook profiles, JW is not friends with either of them. I don't think JW is connected to ZO or AB at all.

I hadn't read the Gatto story yet, my bad. I had been under the assumption of the altercation being between CR and JW's friends and made the assumption that ZO and AB are friends of JW.

I did see on the PT message boards that a person claiming to be JW's roommate (and from perusing dozens of pages, this seems to be generally accepted as truth) described ZO and AB as frat brothers of his and JW's (their frat is underground, not recognized by the University because as we all know they got kicked off of that campus).

So I will take that back - there is no evidence that JW is part of the ZO/AB group and it was a careless thing to say. I'm sorry if that threw anyone off course.

But anyway, I don't see JW involved. I also don't see CR/MB involved just based on the fact that they stuck around, seemed to be the most cooperative, submitted DNA and apparently took polygraphs administered by law enforcement (was this only CR or MB too?). Unlike JR who, if you read between the lines of his lawyer's vague comment "provided" a statement and "provided" a polygraph.

I think JR's silence is very, very loud. I also feel that Saltzman, CR's attorney, would know better than to point fingers at "two or three other people" that saw Lauren last or mention that he hopes LE "follows up on leads" that they have given he felt it may come back to bite his client.

And you don't hire an attorney like Voyles to tell you to flee town and keep your mouth shut. You hire an attorney like Voyles to see you through a trial by jury involving a dead body.

 

[elmomom]

That would be an interesting twist.
The assumption I had has been that JW's buds (ZO & AB) confronted CR because he was with JW's girl.

As one who follows "the rumor mill" - all the posting on other forums etc - I can say that for a long while the people who claim to know these people have been saying that there is no connection between JW and ZO. For a long time now, there has been nothing said to back up the story that it was friends of JW that had the altercation with CR. Since that story came through MSM, and not directly from LE, I don't put a lot of stock into it. Since the only name we know was ZO who threw the punch, there may have been be others there that we don't have ID'ed, so it is still possible that some of JWs friends were there. But who knows??

 

[Berk13]

That would be an interesting twist.
The assumption I had has been that JW's buds (ZO & AB) confronted CR because he was with JW's girl.

I think the JW-ZO-AB connection was concocted by people theorizing about why ZO would hit CR at Smallwood, but there is not one piece of evidence that points to JW being connected to those two. I posted about this on here last week and said that ZO was never a member of the same fraternity as JW (another rumor running rampant on the message boards). After looking at hundreds of Facebook photos from ZO, AB, and JW's profiles, there isn't one photo of JW with either of them. If they were so chummy, it would seem they would a) at least be friends on Facebook, and b) have some photos together on there.

From all that I have heard about ZO and CR, I think the altercation at Smallwood was drug-related and had nothing to do with LS. Regarding her role in the ZO-CR fight, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time in my opinion.

 

[sv614]

I think the JW-ZO-AB connection was concocted by people theorizing about why ZO would hit CR at Smallwood, but there is not one piece of evidence that points to JW being connected to those two. I posted about this on here last week and said that ZO was never a member of the same fraternity as JW (another rumor running rampant on the message boards). After looking at hundreds of Facebook photos from ZO, AB, and JW's profiles, there isn't one photo of JW with either of them. If they were so chummy, it would seem they would a) at least be friends on Facebook, and b) have some photos together on there.

From all that I have heard about ZO and CR, I think the altercation at Smallwood was drug-related and had nothing to do with LS. Regarding her role in the ZO-CR fight, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time in my opinion.

I think they were in AEPi but that ZO is 2 years younger than JW.

The supposed roommate of JW who is posting quite frequently on PT says that JW didn't receive information about the altercation because even though they were in the same frat, they were a couple of years apart and never friends. ZO and that crew would not have even had JW's number stored in his phone to reach him to tell.

So again, I take it back. No apparent connection between JW and ZO and I am sincerely sorry if I threw anyone off or re-ignited a rumor, especially because I honestly don't think JW is involved.

 

[pinkinablueworld]

If we only had the cell phone records.......I think we would see lots of activity. For one thing, we would know if JW used his phone after 2:30am, after he reported he went to sleep. We would know if CR used his phone after the altercation when he was hurt. We would see if JR made a few key calls after 3am as well. We could also see Lauren's missed texts. I just feel sure LE has a pretty good feeling about what happened that night. I also think Lauren's parents know. I think this was carried out by at least TWO people.

 

[Berk13]

I think they were in AEPi but that ZO is 2 years younger than JW.

The supposed roommate of JW who is posting quite frequently on PT says that JW didn't receive information about the altercation because even though they were in the same frat, they were a couple of years apart and never friends. ZO and that crew would not have even had JW's number stored in his phone to reach him to tell.

So again, I take it back. No apparent connection between JW and ZO and I am sincerely sorry if I threw anyone off or re-ignited a rumor, especially because I honestly don't think JW is involved.

Hmmm...I haven't read the supposed roommate's Phish Forum posts, but the biggest reason I never believed ZO was a member of AEPi is because it is an international Jewish fraternity...and I'm about 99% certain that ZO is not Jewish.

Of course things might have changed, but when I was in a sorority at IU, the Jewish fraternities and sororities did not initiate members who were non-Jewish. That's why I'm skeptical about ZO being in that particular fraternity. I'll try to do some digging...if I can find anything that proves or disproves ZO being a member I will let you know! I heard he was a member of a different fraternity at IU and was kicked out. TG's article also said he was kicked out of two different places, one of which was Smallwood. The article did not say what the other place was....TG, do you know what the other place was?