Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #1

[x_files]

Yeah, ANGER??? Can't see that if it was a suicide, can you? Does anyone commit suicide out of anger?

I worried before that the neighbors did hear something and it was to cover up any other noise.

But, this is the most telling to me!



Holy moly - even weirder those two sentences are together.

agreed. I haven't heard of a complicated suicide out of anger before either. It would be more impulsive to swallow pills, drink lots of alcohol and cut wrists then bind and tie ropes, wouldn't it? I just never thought about suicide in depth before not to this degree.

 

[scorekeeper]

http://www.10news.com/news/28617230/detail.html

"I think they have major feelings about protecting their own interests," said retired San Diego police detective Rick Carlson.

Carlson spent 35 years with the San Diego Police Department and saw his share of suicides. Carlson even wrote a book about them.

Whether it was the victim's anger or if it was a homicide… there appears to be a lot of anger there," he said.

Carlson believes suicide is possible but not probable.

"The average person would not want them to find them like that," he said. "They tend to, in my experience, look for a place to hide."


interesting info.......

 

[EGirl]

One possible suicide theory is that Zahau might have hung the noose from the balcony, binding her hands and feet before stepping off a table. A table was one of the items taken from the mansion as evidence.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/waiting-for-answers-in-mansion-deaths-mystery

I have said this from the beginning, one of my first posts on the case. She tied the cord on the balcony and let it hang down. She then stood on the table and jumped off.

The cord would have some give... it would stretch a bit IMO. Given that and the low height of the table in the pictures I just don't see this as a possibility. The cord would have to be hanging down long enogh for her to get it around her neck and when she 'jumped' from the 3' table, I think her feet would have hit the ground.

 

[scorekeeper]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Im-Tub-Gone-Richard-Carlson/dp/1413726003/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311270319&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: I'm in the Tub, Gone (9781413726008): Richard Carlson: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41H5NJF2N1L.@@AMEPARAM@@41H5NJF2N1L[/ame]

info on book written by detective...

 

[Hunnydolll]

I am very curious as to the phone logs. She spoke to her sister Tuesday night at 12am? or 10pm? I know I read that somewhere. The sister said she was ok and was going to bed. Maybe a call came afterwards from JS saying the child was "brain dead" and would not survive. Speculating if he told her to leave the house because he felt her responsible in some way for not watching him closely enough? She became angry and enraged and killed herself in a shocking manner to punish him for blaming her?! Just a thought. (I'm leaning more towards murder though).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeah, ANGER??? Can't see that if it was a suicide, can you? Does anyone commit suicide out of anger?

I worried before that the neighbors did hear something and it was to cover up any other noise.

But, this is the most telling to me!



Holy moly - even weirder those two sentences are together.

Mental illness. People who have certain disorders, such as schizophrenia, have a higher risk of suicide.

Physical illness, including terminal illness and the illnesses common as people age, is often a factor that contributes to people taking their own lives.

Feeling hopeless is very common among people who commit suicide. Hopelessness may be part of clinical depression, or it may be the result of an illness or other dire circumstance. When a person feels hopeless, he or she feels trapped, and suicide may seem like the only way out.

Anger motivates some people to commit suicide, these people see their suicide as a dramatic way to send a message of retribution.

A sudden loss may precipitate suicide in some people. The shock and grief of an enormous loss—of a person or a job—may drive a person to such an extreme.

Experiencing a scandal or extreme embarrassment leads some people to feel so trapped in their situation that they can think of no other way out.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[Hunnydolll]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...kels-mansion-wasnt-depressed-family-says.html

Woman found hanging at Coronado mansion wasn't depressed, family says

July 21, 2011

Police investigating the death of a woman found dead at the Spreckels mansion in Coronado are trying to interview anyone who spoke to her in the hours and days before her death to help determine whether she killed herself or met with possible foul play.
But Mary Zahau-Loehner, a sister of Rebecca Zahau, said her sister was upbeat the night before she was found dead:
"Obviously, the investigation is not complete yet, but as far as what I know about my sister, my sister did not commit a suicide. My sister was not depressed, my sister was not frantic, my sister was planning to call my parents the next day and was planning to keep me posted about Max the next day," she said in a statement to San Diego television channel KFMB.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

<snipped>
The public may think that the fact that Nalepa's hands and feet were tied rules out suicide. Frank does not.

“We have not been able to rule out suicide,” Frank said Monday.

Rick Carlson, retired homicide detective for the San Diego Police Department, author of a book on suicide and suicide notes (“I’m in the Tub, Gone”), said it is not unknown for someone committing suicide by hanging to tie their hands and feet. Tying their hands prevents them from trying to loosen the rope around their necks as they strangle to death, he said.

People committing suicide can be very creative in their methods, said Carlson, asked to comment on the Coronado case by The Times. “Very creative,” he said for emphasis. <snipped>

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/mansion-death-coronado-child-suicide.html

(More at link)[/B]

 

[Quester]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...kels-mansion-wasnt-depressed-family-says.html

Woman found hanging at Coronado mansion wasn't depressed, family says

July 21, 2011

Police investigating the death of a woman found dead at the Spreckels mansion in Coronado are trying to interview anyone who spoke to her in the hours and days before her death to help determine whether she killed herself or met with possible foul play.
But Mary Zahau-Loehner, a sister of Rebecca Zahau, said her sister was upbeat the night before she was found dead:
"Obviously, the investigation is not complete yet, but as far as what I know about my sister, my sister did not commit a suicide. My sister was not depressed, my sister was not frantic, my sister was planning to call my parents the next day and was planning to keep me posted about Max the next day," she said in a statement to San Diego television channel KFMB.

Also from your posted link:

She is reportedly being buried in her native Myanmar.

 

[time]

agreed. I haven't heard of a complicated suicide out of anger before either. It would be more impulsive to swallow pills, drink lots of alcohol and cut wrists then bind and tie ropes, wouldn't it? I just never thought about suicide in depth before not to this degree.

Interesting scorecard gave a link that San Diego police detective Rick Carlson, who has written a book on suicide, says it possible, but not probable. I hope they ask this guy to consult with them.

I wonder if there is more inside the house indicating anger... although there could be more about her physical condition also. Not that they need that since even what we know looks pretty violent/angry.

 

[BrownRice]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...kels-mansion-wasnt-depressed-family-says.html

Woman found hanging at Coronado mansion wasn't depressed, family says

July 21, 2011

Police investigating the death of a woman found dead at the Spreckels mansion in Coronado are trying to interview anyone who spoke to her in the hours and days before her death to help determine whether she killed herself or met with possible foul play.
But Mary Zahau-Loehner, a sister of Rebecca Zahau, said her sister was upbeat the night before she was found dead:
"Obviously, the investigation is not complete yet, but as far as what I know about my sister, my sister did not commit a suicide. My sister was not depressed, my sister was not frantic, my sister was planning to call my parents the next day and was planning to keep me posted about Max the next day," she said in a statement to San Diego television channel KFMB.

I have read this statement numerous times, so it's not new. However, it always strikes me the same way. The day prior Max had a very very serious accident, while under her watch. I believe I have read he was lifeless. How could she not be depressed or frantic? That would have been normal. To me - I would have been depressed and frantic had my "child" been seriously injured. Add the fact I'm the "girlfriend" and it was under my watch - I'm responsible (even if it was an accident and she had nothing to do with it).

Has the sister come out and said RN was not suicidal, but was very sad and concerned?

Up until last night, I was leaning towards homicide, but after reading oceanblueeyes' posts about her family friend's identical suicide, I am re-thinking it. Now, I did google how to hang myself suicide and looked for a lot and there was nothing showing me how to do this......(that I saw at first glance).

 

[time]

Feelings of anger and resentment combined with exaggerated guilt can lead to impulsive, self-destructive acts

http://www.capefearhealthyminds.org/library.cgi?article=1115921805

I gotta take a break...........my head is spinning :crazy::crazy::waitasec:

homicide.........suicide..........:banghead::banghead:

I don't know though because she was not that young...

Studies show that suicide attempts among young people may be based on long standing problems triggered by a specific event. Suicidal adolescents may view a temporary situation as a permanent condition. Feelings of anger and resentment combined with exaggerated guilt can lead to impulsive, self-destructive acts.

There was something in the other links about naked suicide and "self-destructive acts" ... can't remember, but I think it made me feel Rebecca was excluded from being self-destructive.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I have read this statement numerous times, so it's not new. However, it always strikes me the same way. The day prior Max had a very very serious accident, while under her watch. I believe I have read he was lifeless. How could she not be depressed or frantic? That would have been normal. To me - I would have been depressed and frantic had my "child" been seriously injured. Add the fact I'm the "girlfriend" and it was under my watch - I'm responsible (even if it was an accident and she had nothing to do with it).

Has the sister come out and said RN was not suicidal, but was very sad and concerned?

Up until last night, I was leaning towards homicide, but after reading oceanblueeyes' posts about her family friend's identical suicide, I am re-thinking it. Now, I did google how to hang myself suicide and looked for a lot and there was nothing showing me how to do this......(that I saw at first glance).

To me, I've always read it that she wasn't overly depressed or frantic - not outside the norm of how a person would behave in that situation. Perhaps even a touch upbeat, trying to have hope in a grim situation. Or, she could be the type that is very, very calm during times of stress, so much so that it can come across as unfeeling to others. A lot of my family is very "stiff upper lip," and when we've had family matters in the hospital, they've not acted depressed or frantic.

There could also be a cultural component I'm not aware of.

Whether the sister was accurate or not in assessing her state of mind, the fact that she made plans to keep people updated on his condition gives me pause. I know it can go either way, but I'm still on the possibly hinky side of the fence on this one.

 

[time]

I have read this statement numerous times, so it's not new. However, it always strikes me the same way. The day prior Max had a very very serious accident, while under her watch. I believe I have read he was lifeless. How could she not be depressed or frantic? That would have been normal. To me - I would have been depressed and frantic had my "child" been seriously injured. Add the fact I'm the "girlfriend" and it was under my watch - I'm responsible (even if it was an accident and she had nothing to do with it).

Has the sister come out and said RN was not suicidal, but was very sad and concerned?

Up until last night, I was leaning towards homicide, but after reading oceanblueeyes' posts about her family friend's identical suicide, I am re-thinking it. Now, I did google how to hang myself suicide and looked for a lot and there was nothing showing me how to do this......(that I saw at first glance).

Maybe the difference is that the sister didn't think she was clinically depressed/severely depressed.... that could change the meaning of what she said. I don't think she was indicating Rebecca wasn't sad.

I just can't buy this is a suicide at all and as someone else here said, it would take a lot to convince me that's what happened.

 

[MsFacetious]

Ok, for those of you claiming that Rebecca stole someone's husband, I think you need to provide some proof and links.

Here are what I think are the facts from many articles and court documents, but correct me if I am wrong:

• Jonah and Dina divorced in 2008 with several allegations back and forth of physical abuse.
  
• Rebecca just finalized her divorce last May, 2011, she had been married for 8 years
  
• Rebecca and Jonah have been together about 2+ years, so she has seen Jonah's children change a lot and would have probably known Max for nearly half his life
  
• Dina lived at the Coronado mansion for a while in a different part of it while Jonah and Rebecca were living there - seems later she got her own home very nearby (thought it was 2 blocks)
  
• Rebecca seemed fairly integrated into Jonah's life - I posted a link where she attended his oldest son's Bar Mitzvah with him, hosted by the first wife and her husband about last April and it looks like one of Jonah's older kids was going to school in the Phoenix area - so unless their mom moved there, that kid or kids could have been living with Jonah and Rebecca

Looks like Jonah stole someone elses wife to me. Looks like both Dina and Jonah can be violent.

Jonah and Dina were estranged in January 2009 - this is when the last police reports were made.

"The married couple was estranged by Jan. 4, 2009, when a second incident was reported to police."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43817...o_ca/t/details-shed-shacknais-second-divorce/



Allegedly the divorce was not final until January 2011.

"Court records show Jonah and Dina Shacknai, his second wife, had their divorce finalized in January of this year..."

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-spreckels-mansion-death,0,4798383.story



Rebecca's divorce was final in February 2011, she went back to her maiden name in May 2011.

"Nalepa, who was herself divorced in February, had her maiden surname of Zahau legally restored in May, according to court records in Arizona."

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-spreckels-mansion-death,0,4798383.story



As far as I have seen, Rebecca and Jonah were together for two years... according to his former mother in law. I haven't seen that information from anywhere else, just repeated. I also haven't seen it disputed however, so I see no reason to doubt it.

"Romano told the Arizona Republic that her former son-in-law and Nalepa had been together for about two years."

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-spreckels-mansion-death,0,4798383.story



Jonah's first ex wife sells real estate in Arizona... don't know for sure that she resides there, but I would guess she at least has a house there.

"The home was sold by Kimberly A. James, formerly known as Kimberly A. Shacknai..."


http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep.../01/26/20110126phoenix-real-estate-deals.html



Jonah and Dina were both Arizona residents.

"Shacknai and his family live in Arizona and stay at their Coronado mansion during the summer months."

"Shacknai's ex-wife, a clinical psychologist based in Arizona, also lives part-time at a nearby home in Coronado."

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/150755...mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true



Rebecca certainly did seem very involved in the family life.
Yes, she is in the pictures from the Bar Miztvah in March 2011.

"A certified ophthalmic technician, she left her job in Scottsdale, Ariz., last year to spend more time with Shacknai and his children, authorities said."

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/19/local/la-me-mansion-deaths-20110719



The only thing I've seen about Dina's living arrangements when they separated is that she kept her own home there. (Down the road, a short distance, a few blocks... pick your description.)

"When they separated, Dina kept a home of her own there and Jonah lived in the original home with Zahau."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...718shacknai-police-reports.html#ixzz1SlXo22Zy

 

[time]

MsFacetious ... thanks for the corrections. I'm not sure where I got the 2008 date.

It may be a wording thing, but someone posted a link that Dina lived in the same house/compound for a while. Perhaps the reporter confused that with living down the block or something.

I'm not sure where I got SC? Maybe someone gave that as an abbreviation and I was confused. Where was it first reported that the girl at the house when Max fell was sent?

 

[time]

Maybe misreporting?

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/...rlfriend?clienttype=printable&redirected=true

Max's mother owns a summer house down the road from the Spreckels Mansion. On Friday night, sympathy flowers were left at both homes.

Jonah Shacknai and his second ex-wife were divorced in 2008. Friends say they were both at Max's bedside at the time of Zahau's mysterious death.

Also

Zahau was an ophthalmic technician at Horizon Eye Specialists & Lasik Center in the Phoenix area from April 2008 to December 2010, said chief executive Michael Trier.

Not sure where Rebecca was before this - in Phoenix?

 

[Quester]

Yes - reports were that GS flew to SC on Monday, day of MS' accident. [linked many times in this thread]


Perhaps the first wife's (mother of GS) second home, family home, new husbands' family's home???

Who knows - so many players - so much drama!

 

[AnaTeresa]

I feel like I need a family tree, a timeline, and a flowchart with this one! :waitasec:

 

[Quester]

I feel like I need a family tree, a timeline, and a flowchart with this one! :waitasec:

Yep!

How's this:

Kid from wife #1 is present when kid from wife #2 suffers fatal accident while also in the presence of potential wife #3.

Reported acrimonious divorces with wife #1 and #2 and reported affair with potential wife #3 while still married to wife #2.

Potential wife #3 found hanging by neck - murder? suicide?

Messy!