GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[Jacie Estes]

Did you ever let that abuser become the full time care giver for your toddler?

Read what AB is charged with, that speaks volumes. As per TOS of Websleuths, Jaimee is a victim and I will treat her as such; she is a mother who is grieving the loss of her son. If you heard Kevin C in an interview, the family doesn't know how long it will be before they will be able to have a wake and bury their child. An American Indian wake is very moving, one for a child even more so; I can't even imagine having to wait. I will believe that not only did Carnel walk over but he skipped, like any child would do, and there was a Grandmother there to take him in her arms. I am not Chippewa but I am Indian and my heart grieves for the loss of a child, a Sacred being, I also grieve with his mother because one thing I do know...Mitukaye Oyasin.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

I DO have a heart, and it bleeds for her baby boy. All of these things that you listed, these horrible things he had done. When did she know those things? I bet she knew about them back many months ago.

If she had put her baby in a cage with three fighting pit bulls, or with a 6 foot boa constrictor, would she be held accountable?

Even if she had been abused by him, does that make it okay for her to make him the babysitter?

Saddly enough in her life someone who is physically abusive is nothing new. Her baby daddy was in prison for assault, her brother as well, it is just something she was used to dealing with. Not as excuse just shows our world is a sad one.

 

[Knox]

I'm aware that abuse comes in many forms.In most relationships you will have one more dominant than the other. I still don't see being so impacted by the stronger partner to the point you could "filter out" the abuse when it comes to your child.I have seen this in long term relationships though,so that was why I asked how long she had been in this relationship.
At any rate,we really don't know yet what kind of relationship they had aside from her allowing him to strike her child.

IMO

Seven months, according to news stories.

 

[kimlynn]

Going to sleep now. I can't handle all the dv talk when we have no proof jc was a victim and nothing in msm to suggest she was. Jmo but without a link to support this dv discussion I question whether it should be allowed as it is only a rumor and ws doesnt allow rumors.

Even if she were a victim of DV how sad that she would allow her child to become a victim as well based on 'fear' of the abuser.
He really didn't have any choices. IMO

My time for sleep as well.Goodnight all.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Saddly enough in her life someone who is physically abusive is nothing new. Her baby daddy was in prison for assault, her brother as well, it is just something she was used to dealing with. Not as excuse just shows our world is a sad one.

I truly believe that unless someone has lived on the rez, they don't know the conditions there. SOME parts of the rez [any rez] are as bad as, if not worse than, innercity when it comes to crime.

 

[Knox]

He said it was coming from a chimney so I assume inside the house.

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

I had not seen this interview with the construction worker, thank you TJ.

He states "On the Wednesday before this happened, we heard yelling and screaming coming from the house".

"The following day one of our workers smelled, it was probably after 5 or 6, had a funny odor coming from the chimney, which right there, you can see it".

I don't recall seeing a chimney on the house? So there is a fireplace in it?

 

[Amster]

So....what evidence is there that the woman was abused? We know her son was....she described the abuse. She witnessed some of it.

 

[Knox]

All the more reason that she should not have left her baby alone with him every night. JMO

Justice for Carnel (I think) posted that JC had just recently started working. IIRC she said late May, early June. So AB had not been babysitting for very long.

Just thought that detail is important to bring forward.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I do not think it is a matter of comprehension. I fully comprehend your position. As you say, you are trained as a advocate for victims of domestic violence. So from your POV she should be seen as a victim and should have no responsibility for the outcome.

But I am not trained as an advocate for battered victims. However I did work in the public school system for 20 years, primarily with 'At Risk' kids. So I do have some understanding of young single mothers.

And I was living a young life similar to Carnel's, and still remember the fear and utter terror that my 'babysitter' brought into our home. So my sympathy lies with him, Bless His Soul.

And it is not a matter of 'comprehension' imo. It is a matter of personal stance and life experience. We are all allowed to have our own and to express them, without being accused of having a lack of comprehension. JMO

Before I go offer prayers for Carnel and his family...

Your statement...I fully comprehend your position.

THIS is my point all along. It isn't about what 'you', or others, comprehend, it is about what 'Jaimee' comprehends. We are onlookers, she was in the situation. The phrase 'walking a mile in someone's mocassins' is apropos here. Any abuse that any one of us suffered is not the same as what Jaimee suffered. One thing that is a very good sign is that she SPOKE to FBI about past incidences. She didn't lie, she didn't refuse to speak to them, she told the truth. At that moment she knew she was safe to speak.

 

[Jacie Estes]

So....what evidence is there that the woman was abused? We know her son was....she described the abuse. She witnessed some of it.

The very foundation of treating anyone in the DV system is confidentiality, there is no paper trail, there is no record available to public scrutiny. DV tenets, as well as HIPPA, are based on confidentiality.

 

[revampz]

AAAAgggghhhhh...... I am so angry right now. I have not been on here for a little while and had just discovered this little boy has been killed. He was so beautiful, those eyes.

I know there has been a bit of a discussion about blaming the mother so I want to have my opinion. I do and dont blame her. I think as people have mentioned it is the way you are bought up and your life experiences.

Personally I would love to get hold of this mother for not only living with a guy with a tattoo on his face that just got out of jail BUT leaving her child with him after her child said he was mean!!! I think alot of these woman do not have the strength to live without a man....most dont want to to and it seems that is where the child/children come 2nd in their decision making. Harsh but true. Not only have we now seen literally hundreds of said mothers on this site, but I have them in my family, my husbands family and my kids friends families. It really is the core of the breakdown of society in MO.

I have been bought up differently. My father was a policeman and had investigated many child abuse cases amongst other things, so I have grown up knowing what the real world is like and am very protective of my kids.......probably worry TOO much. I still probably wouldnt leave my kids with my own father or father in law alone let alone a man I knew for 7 months. I am even a bit funny with my kids own dad..........but of course I dont say anything...I just check everything. If they have sleep overs at a friends place, I panic wondering about the kids father etc (I have sons, would be extra worried with daughters). But that is me, I have been on here too long, read too many mags and books and watch the news too much. I dont trust ANYONE with my children in this day and age.

My sister was a single mum with a little girl and was still a party girl and had boyfriends etc.....the difference.......policeman father and mother drummed into her that on no accounts were any men to live with her until she was 300% sure....let alone be left alone with her.....she ended up meeting a guy and he was put thru the ringer and they have been married now for 12 years and he is "dad".

Alot of you are like me I bet. Unfortunately this girl does not know a world exists without abuse, drugs and violence in it. It really is a vicous circle. I think there has to be some form of education, be it thru the tv or modern singers/celebrities, shows I dont know, but something directed at mothers about being careful with your children within your relationships.

Ok rant over. and RIP beautiful boy

 

[Cubby]

Jaimee, appears to have been surrounded by abuse. As was previously posted, her brother RC is incarcerated for domestic violence. Her childs father, I believe/not confirmed, is incarcerated for being violent. AB has a history of violence...

Abuse may have been so much the norm in Jaimee's life, ignorance, not malice played a role in her poor decision making.

If I may share a little OT. 15-20 years ago when I was a little older than Jaimee is now, I sought counseling and my therapist asked me several times, "are you sure you have never been abused? You have every trait of someone who has been abused." I kept insisting, nope, have never been abused. It wasn't until many years later, I realized my view of abuse at the time I was presented that question, was quite narrow and at the time I honestly believed unless someone got their arse kicked and was brutally beaten, nothing else was abuse. It was pure ignorance. I had no clue.

I can imagine Jaimee thinking along the same lines I did in my 20's and being simply unaware some things were actually considered abuse.

 

[Knox]

I absolutely believe she was abused. I've been in her shoes, different state and different rez but the violence was the same. There are still times, 5 years later, when I shudder thinking about having a gun barrel touching the bridge of my nose and I didn't even flinch, I just stared him down. I was afraid if I reacted he would pull the trigger.

Do you know if AB used drugs or had FAS problems? Thanks

JE I have seen your posts in other threads and have nothing but respect for you and what you have been through {hugs}.

I want to have compassion for JC, but with every new detail revealed, I struggle with an impulse to judge her. I'm angry that Carnel, who was completely without a say in the choice of Mommy's new live-in, suffered because that person could not control himself. Even sadder that her need to "be loved" trumped protecting her son.

Can you imagine how Carnel felt? What did he think when he told her AB hurt him. What was Jaimee's reply to him? What were his thoughts, when AB grabbed him by the neck and dragged him to his room and Mommy did not stop him? Just imagining those scenarios and how he must have felt breaks my heart.

I don't know that I agree Jaimee herself suffered abuse at the hands of AB. I think I'm going to need proof of that first.

 

[Cubby]

I had not seen this interview with the construction worker, thank you TJ.

He states "On the Wednesday before this happened, we heard yelling and screaming coming from the house".

"The following day one of our workers smelled, it was probably after 5 or 6, had a funny odor coming from the chimney, which right there, you can see it".

I don't recall seeing a chimney on the house? So there is a fireplace in it?

I don't recall seeing a chimney on the house but wasn't looking for one.

Wow. Clearly these roofers will be witnesses at trial. I'm sure they have records when they finished the job on Wednesday and will be of enormous help to LE building their timeline.

 

[EXIA15145]

Kind of reminds me of Baby Joshua situation...

Is there a link to somewhere explaining who is baby Joshua or what his story is?

 

[EllaMae]

I can not explain it any clearer here; one person's comprehension is different than another's. I am looking at this as someone who is at a distance, who knows no one involved in the situation, is using detachment to view the situation and has the training to understand all of the factors of abuse.

I also have a lot of education in the area of mental health....and I still believe the mother shares a portion of the responsibility for what happened to her little boy. She was aware that what AB was doing to her child was wrong, and so was he. That's why he was seeking assurance that she loved him enough to overlook the damage he was inflicting on her child. At that moment he was asking her, in his own way, to decide who she loved more. She made an active choice to not remove this man from her home, or to send her child elsewhere if she still wanted to have AB in her life. She absolutely did pick this violent man over her child, and I believe she should be given jail time. I do not believe she developed Stockholm Syndrome, because she was not isolated from the rest of the world by this man, nor was she dependent on him for her every need. She went to work regularly, interacted with other people on a daily basis, and lived among her family and friends. She was with AB willingly right from the start,was never a hostage, and apparently chose to ignore his past.

While there may be an explanation for her behavior rooted in her upbringing.....I do not believe that justifies giving her a free pass. She failed to protect her child from continuing abuse, and allowed the situation to escalate into a murder by leaving her child alone with a violent man who had already lost control on more than one occasion. To me she is no different than any other parent who places a child in a dangerous situation and ends up in jail because of it.

 

[cluciano63]

Is there a link to somewhere explaining who is baby Joshua or what his story is?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163446&highlight=joshua+davis

Thread for Baby Joshua

Basically he is a little toddler who vanished from his home during a gathering of people in the house watching TV...never to be seen again, almost 18 months now...

 

[EllaMae]

Jaimee, appears to have been surrounded by abuse. As was previously posted, her brother RC is incarcerated for domestic violence. Her childs father, I believe/not confirmed, is incarcerated for being violent. AB has a history of violence...

Abuse may have been so much the norm in Jaimee's life, ignorance, not malice played a role in her poor decision making.

If I may share a little OT. 15-20 years ago when I was a little older than Jaimee is now, I sought counseling and my therapist asked me several times, "are you sure you have never been abused? You have every trait of someone who has been abused." I kept insisting, nope, have never been abused. It wasn't until many years later, I realized my view of abuse at the time I was presented that question, was quite narrow and at the time I honestly believed unless someone got their arse kicked and was brutally beaten, nothing else was abuse. It was pure ignorance. I had no clue.

I can imagine Jaimee thinking along the same lines I did in my 20's and being simply unaware some things were actually considered abuse.

BBM...

I don't agree with that assessment. Her relatives warned her about him. She had plenty of information. And AB was worried enough about her reaction to seeing her child's beaten and bruised face that he sought assurance of her feelings for him first. That is a very revealing piece of information. If she was that unaware of what constituted abuse, he would've had no reason to worry about what he'd done to Carnel, and how she was going to take it.

 

[EXIA15145]

Update/correction. The home shows up with an address to RC. Other MSM articles indicate the Mt. Pleasant address was a previous address at the time the Jan 2011 crime occured. It looks like RC resided in Alma when this crime occured.

Source: google search results description. Most of the articles appear to be gone and not archived, so I can't link to any specific article.

A lot of material is not found in Google archives these days, and a lot more is to disappear, because people are claiming the rights to their 'intellectual property' and demanding Google drop it from their search results forthwith. This means things are going to be much more difficult to locate.

 

[EllaMae]

The very foundation of treating anyone in the DV system is confidentiality, there is no paper trail, there is no record available to public scrutiny. DV tenets, as well as HIPPA, are based on confidentiality.

There might be medical records that could be used in court if that becomes necessary.

Where are the family and friends mentioning her bruises and blackened eyes? Where are her broken bones and bald spots? Her scars and missing teeth? If AB was leaving obvious bruises on Carnel, he would do the same to Jaimee if he was beating up on her as well. His MO seemed to be a loss of control....not a methodical terrorization.

Not one person has made the claim that AB was abusing Jaimee. And I still do not think it excuses what happened to Carnel even if it turns out that AB was abusive to both mother and child.