Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[Spotted Reptile]

I just wanted to say that I am so glad that now whenever anyone talks about Allison, we all say "ALLISON". We use her name rather than her initials, as in the beginning, most of the time, we all said ABC.

It is a little bit of a testament to how closely many of us have grown to feel about her. And its strange to think we started out calling her ABC...seems so impersonal now

I thought it was for legal reasons? I would have liked to call her Allison all the while, but I thought we weren't supposed to. I guess I got it wrong.

 

[DrWatson]

Looooonnggg day..! Just got home, and caught up with the day's posts.

Some interesting stuff to mull over.

I still have problems with the logic of the following tidbits, though:

1. The blood in the car vs the "no injury" thing, and whether or not the QPS found any blood at the site of the alleged murder. And the age of the blood?

2. If GBC had wanted the body found, and had placed it (or dropped it) where she was found, then why wasn't she washed out into the Brisbane River on that flood surge?

3. If GBC had placed the body hidden further upstream, from where she washed down to the bridge, then presumably his intent was that she WOULDN'T be found - at least not for a long time. Depending on just WHERE he put her. Which sort of negates the whole insurance bit.

4. The debts being somewhat overstated - at least the bits we know. For example, as somebody else pointed out - being a guarantor for $350,000 is NOT a debt - unless the person who owes the money defaults.

5. This whole thing about the Kenmore roundabout, and the possible sighting of NBC at the bus stop there. Why there? And who was doing what? Why was NBC on his own? If he was meeting GBC there, why? And how did he (NBC) get there? Where was the BWANA car while he was sitting at the bus stop? And why not just meet him at his home? And the quickest way to NBC's home from GBC's home is via Rafting Ground Rd, with minimal lighting and no cameras.... That whole middle of the night rendezvous thing just doesn't all hang together for me.

6. Were the screams heard near Rafting Ground Rd anything to do with this? And if so - where exactly did they originate? (as opposed to the location of the people who heard them)?

Many more questions, but tonight, I'm knackered, and I'm off to the horribly-zontal. Should get more chances to pop in and out tomorrow, I hope.

:countsheep:

 

[summer_breeze]

Reminder:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178139"]Chit Chat and Banter - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Timmy]

On that note. Way past my bed time. Good night all!

 

[linette]

On that note. Way past my bed time. Good night all!

Nite nite

 

[marlywings]

Does anyone recall a poster several threads ago, who worked with GBC and ABC at flight centre many years ago? They posted a photo of a very young GBC from the late 1990s from memory. He looked different! I wonder if that poster is still here - it was so interesting hearing about them from those days. It is kind of interesting to see what things were like in the past, as we try to make sense of how things eventuated for them. I wonder if their relationship was always up and down - or was it only in later years when the pressure of money, children etc set in (and bad decisions made)?

Yep...KSM...the photo is in second link...

#690 06-22-2012, 08:26 PM
KSM
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7

I've read every post since day 1 but this is my first post. Apologies if this is a really long post. I'm almost ashamed to admit that I originally believed GBC was 100% innocent of this alleged crime. Only when he was arrested did I consider that QPS must have had a case against him. Even then I thought that it must have been a heat of the moment situation gone very wrong followed by panic and a cover-up (none of this excusable of course if he allegedly did this). When I started to read the Crown's case and that it was a predominantly circumstantial case I went back to thinking that possibly he was innocent after all. And then the suppressed details were revealed and I felt sick to the stomach knowing that clearly he has committed this alleged crime, and pre-meditated at that.
I knew both Allison and GBC a very long time ago. Allison hired me for a job and GBC was my Manager. I worked with GBC day-in day-out for a year - and having known him I really did not believe he could be capable of such a thing. He was very straight-laced, and didn't really have a lot of the character traits that have been posted here. He was actually fairly "normal", which makes this whole tragedy of Allison's death even worse for me. Allison was really beautiful in person, very warm, intelligent and friendly. I worked for GBC around the time they first got together. I never imagined that this many years later it would end in her tragic (and senseless) death.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8077128#post8077128"]NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8077207&postcount=751"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8077128&postcount=690"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26[/ame]

 

[Berry]

This may be the video of him coming out of police station.....& at 1.22 he took a swipe at one of the cameramen at the front of the car....I always remember that!!!

Search for missing woman now murder investigation - YouTube

Also on same video at .55 & .57 I wonder where those areas are.

Looks like Ugly Creek banks that Makara showed earlier today

 

[Berry]

My husband is a detective with QPS in an area where there are up to 7 murders a year and most of them are women in DV scenarios, some of whom have never been found. I find it sad that because these women come from a poor area where there is a lot of crime that the murder is reported but the next day fades into insignificance but because Allison is like many of us living in a comfortable "normal" suburb her murder becomes a topic of interest for many over a much longer period of time.

Thanks for standing up for the 'lost or murdered poor women' Fergie.

We now call them 'erased' as men can and do this to remove debts and child custody.

However it is tough for QPS to work in this scenario and find that they have often very little closure or relief for families involved too.

Stress is then brought home to their families too. I feel for you.

 

[Thinking]

Yep...KSM...the photo is in second link...

#690 06-22-2012, 08:26 PM
KSM
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7

I've read every post since day 1 but this is my first post. Apologies if this is a really long post. I'm almost ashamed to admit that I originally believed GBC was 100% innocent of this alleged crime. Only when he was arrested did I consider that QPS must have had a case against him. Even then I thought that it must have been a heat of the moment situation gone very wrong followed by panic and a cover-up (none of this excusable of course if he allegedly did this). When I started to read the Crown's case and that it was a predominantly circumstantial case I went back to thinking that possibly he was innocent after all. And then the suppressed details were revealed and I felt sick to the stomach knowing that clearly he has committed this alleged crime, and pre-meditated at that.
I knew both Allison and GBC a very long time ago. Allison hired me for a job and GBC was my Manager. I worked with GBC day-in day-out for a year - and having known him I really did not believe he could be capable of such a thing. He was very straight-laced, and didn't really have a lot of the character traits that have been posted here. He was actually fairly "normal", which makes this whole tragedy of Allison's death even worse for me. Allison was really beautiful in person, very warm, intelligent and friendly. I worked for GBC around the time they first got together. I never imagined that this many years later it would end in her tragic (and senseless) death.

NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#26

Thanks Marly! This is the one I meant

 

[Berry]

I remember we discussed it a lot on earlier threads, that look on Olivia's face and biting the lips etc during the video interview.
Now with the benefit of hindsight, what was her main concern, whether it was worry that he wouldn't be able to pull it off, or was it " something isn't right with your story"
I guess what I'm really saying is did she know or didn't she at that point. I can't recall if we established she was at NBC's house on the night of murder.
If she was there, I'm sure she did know what happened, especially now we know about gerard's scratches and how quick she was to provide a reason for them.

The biting of the lip Olivia was doing and the darting eyes, matched the 'defense dialogue' they both went into instead of expressing heartfelt grief and despair like a family would if missing a very vital loving person of their children and neices. IMO.

Their 'act' was deplorable and cringeful (thanks to other WS observers as well).

:shakehead:

 

[Berry]

Yes it seems the same shirt....also looks like pink shirt in his party boy days...think he liked pink...lol. (photos courtesy of member DorkWhisperer)

View attachment 24426

View attachment 24427

View attachment 24428

It is fekkin' blue this time here girl....sheeeshhhhh

 

[Berry]

A couple more in pink...my favourite is the second shot of him wearing bracelets....lol..

View attachment 24431

View attachment 24432

Nah this is mauve checks

 

[itsthevibe]

Min, most of us don't have experiences of this kind (and rely on stories in the msm or crime stories) but would it be safe to say that if a woman was being strangled she would scratch her perpetrator on or near the face and neck, as apart from kicking, that would be one of the few things she could manage to do. IMO

Yes..

 

[Curiousasacat]

:yourock: Keentoknow - thank you for making and placing the cross at the bridge - it really is a bright yellow beacon - I know I have said it before but indulge me again - thanks for thinking of this lovely gesture. IMO

At some late stage we need to hire a mini bus and get our WS tushies up the coast and have a bbq on the beach near you and give cheers to Allison and WS for bringing us together.

That would be so much fun! I am so jealous that I am so far away right now Oh and the fact that you mentioned the beach :tears: Keeny enjoy the smell of the ocean and the sound of the waves for me.I am in the Praries, no ocean nearby unfortunately but plenty of seagulls????

I haven't had a lot to say of late. My mind still boggles.
I am glad to see that you guys have formed friendships,everything happens for a reason they say. Unfortunately Allison lost her life but hers,like Daniel Morcombe's will bring about good.Lessons learnt and lives saved IMO.
I love reading my live novel every day and I appreciate each and every one of you :blowkiss:


P.S Wozzle, what an amazing and lovely thing you did for Indromum.Just such a beautiful gesture.
Hawkins, you have been a bit too quiet.Come back soon. Same to the maverik guys,come back too x

 

[itsthevibe]

yes...I agree that Fergie wrote a great post here..We have talked so much about his wormy ways (caterpillary ways?), but not so much the 'why' he kept doing this to his wonderful, intelligent, loving and clearly attractive wife. IMO I think its highly probable reason that GBC cheated was because Allison knew the real him....and he no longer felt 'special' or superior in her presence. In his eyes, no doubt she made him look and feel bad, it was her fault.

In his egotistical mind, he must find someone who will be in awe of his awesomeness and he must do so post haste!! and when she starts to become less adoring and begin querying or harrassing him in any way, well, he must find someone post haste again to boost his ego!!!!it reminds me of an old book on star signs I once read. The phrase she used to describe the Aries man was,

"I am back!" he said hotly, "why do you not cheer?"

Haha! This is so true. My ex was like this. Basically deep down it is a huge inferiority complex covered by a mask of superior behaviour, and the affairs and other interactions that engender adoration of some sort by others are all orchestrated to keep providing them with the reassurance that they are OK. They come to hate the one they love because someone who is real, and who has entered into a relationship genuinely trying to know their partner intimately, inevitably discovers who they really are.

The worst thing that can happen to someone like this is to be truly known. It can be summed up in a variation of a classic saying "If you get to know the real me then I'll have to kill you". Their hatred of their loved one is also exacerbated if that person is someone smarter, more accomplished and full of goodness. The stark contrast to how they see themselves can be too much to take, yet they were drawn to it at the beginning because that person possessed what they didn't have within themselves.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I think the perception is that bugging is a big deal, it is very common.

You know that saying that "loose lips sink ships", I think the BC's ship is going to be sitting on the bottom of the ocean soon enough.

and here I thought(used to think I guess now) bugging houses and cars just happened in the movies. If I ever commit a crime I have picked up some great tips on here :floorlaugh:

Don't keep phone on charger.
Do not google taking the 5th or self incrimination.
Do not assume facecalls can not be traced.
Look out for cameras on roundabouts.
Can use caterpillars as an excuse for scratches.
Don't trust family or many people I have had intimate relations with.(Cigar anyone?)
Do not vacuum out car when expecting company.
Cleaning products do show up more than blood.
When borrowing money,people expect you to pay them back.
I might have trouble growing a beard though.:waitasec:

The list goes on...........

 

[itsthevibe]

I remember we discussed it a lot on earlier threads, that look on Olivia's face and biting the lips etc during the video interview.
Now with the benefit of hindsight, what was her main concern, whether it was worry that he wouldn't be able to pull it off, or was it " something isn't right with your story"
I guess what I'm really saying is did she know or didn't she at that point. I can't recall if we established she was at NBC's house on the night of murder.
If she was there, I'm sure she did know what happened, especially now we know about gerard's scratches and how quick she was to provide a reason for them.

Personally I thought at the time that she didn't know. I saw her reaction as one that was very concerned and feeling uneasy, and then as GBC was speaking and it was sounding so bad she became more and more anxious that he was making himself sound guilty. I think she just wanted him to stop. Whether she was eventually clued in by Nigelaine I don't know. They may have kept it from her in order to preserve her view of them, or they have told her a more homogenised version of it - that it was an accident and GBC panicked. Perhaps even added that Allison was acting crazy and provoked him. Maybe not even mentioning NBC's alleged involvement.

But I'm not totally convinced she knows anything, I still do think it's plausible the others made a decision to hide it from her completely. She would be a great supporter of GBC's innocence that way. As she lives in Townsville they wouldnt have to keep up the facade in front of her very often.

On the other hand, I'm willing to believe she knows everything, simply because nothing would surprise me with that family.

 

[YoureNicked]

Haha! This is so true. My ex was like this. Basically deep down it is a huge inferiority complex covered by a mask of superior behaviour, and the affairs and other interactions that engender adoration of some sort by others are all orchestrated to keep providing them with the reassurance that they are OK. They come to hate the one they love because someone who is real, and who has entered into a relationship genuinely trying to know their partner intimately, inevitably discovers who they really are. The worst thing that can happen to someone like this is to be truly known. It can be summed up in a variation of a classic saying "If you get to know the real me then I'll have to kill you". Their hatred of their loved one is also exacerbated if that person is someone smarter, more accomplished and full of goodness. The stark contrast to how they see themselves can be too much to take, yet they were drawn to it at the beginning because that person possessed what they didn't have within themselves.

Perfectly explained, itsthevibe and I can also personally relate. I too think this is exactly how it was for Allison.

May I also add that the repeated affairs are not only a way the cheater pumps up his/her weak ego but they are also one of the ways they express scorn and indeed hatred of their partner/spouse who dared to love them and wanted to know them intimately.

Bolded By Me (BBM)

 

[itsthevibe]

I saw something to a couple of weeks ago, a guy called Paul who was a serial killer... police were suspicious when he could 'remember' exactly where he was on the occassion of the 3 killings even though they spanned a few weeks. He even went into detail about EXACTLY what he did on those days. They said nobody can recall that off the top of their head. True. You'd have to sit back and think about it.

Was that on a TV show? I came across a show when channel surfing a while back, and they showed police interviews of the guy who was arrested for murdering several prostitutes a few years back. He picked them up in Fortitude Valley and took them to locations on the northside. I dont like watching those shows if they are the type that go into the graphic detail, but I came across it by accident and the interviews were very interesting. I couldnt keep watching as the subject matter was just horrible, and they started to do sort of blurry re-enactments. I wondered if this is what you saw because I thought it was interesting that the guy did seem to know right off the bat what he was doing on the particular nights, rather he had a story of what he said he was doing.

It's actually haunted me a bit to think there are people like him out there, that get off on killing like that.

I mention this also to acknowledge those killed by him, they were prostitutes but women who shouldnt be judged, and didnt deserve to be killed. Who knows what their lives were like and then they were brutally stabbed, it must have been horrifying.

I'm up so late, off to bed now with a prayer for Allison, and other women who have been killed or experienced extreme violence.

 

[Mountain Misst]

You could be right about the BC's maybe using that phone...started me wondering about the visit by five detectives early evening on the day of the first aborted bail hearing.

Police had only learnt about the facetime call not long before that hearing was due to start....perhaps that's part of the reason they were searching the car & house.

Detectives may have been suspicious that NBC was behind the bomb scare threat at the courts that day.