IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[GrainneDhu]

"IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The Iowa State Fair says a police booth will display information about two missing Iowa cousins and accept tips about their whereabouts.

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...-Girls-Abducted-from-Evansdale-165302876.html

The fair faced harsh criticism online Tuesday after turning down a request from volunteers who wanted a booth so they could give out information about 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins."

There may be no ground searches for the girls but LE planned on handing out a box for tips etc at the fair. They must have a person of interest. IMOO I have never heard of police setting up anywhere with a tip box before at a fair or an event.

Back in the 1980s, LE had an information booth for Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin.

I don't have a cite but I was there and was it.

 

[lishac23]

There is confirmation that the purse was found 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet away from the fence on the lakeside of the double fences.

So based on your map...the purse was found near where the woods start to get thicker (towards Maiden Lane) as opposed to the more dense open area by the gate?

 

[hollyblue]

I agree. I think its possible that they (lyric, elizabeth, and/or perp(s)) could have walked along fast enough without being seen.

At a distance of close to a 1/4 mile I think they could be easily missed , if hurried. My eyes certainly couldn't make out a face or if Lyric was an adult or big child that far away. imo

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't have a link to the video or an article. But I will explain the best I can what the CCTV shows. It is from Cornbelt Auctions, which is a business between Lafayette and Brovan, where the Collins home (IIRC) is. The camera faces south to show Brovan. Brovan is a bit angled so that it does not run truely east-west, but close enough. The video shows the girls riding left to right. The camera is facing south, so that means the girls are riding east to west. ASSUMING, the girls took the trail south to the lake, which is east of that location, they would be riding the wrong way. But since we don't really know how they got to the lake, there is no way to judge if they were going the wrong way or not.

Thank you so much!

So, at first glance, they are heading away from the lake.

Gramma said she let them go out at 11.30 with a warning not to be long as they had an appointment. She started to get worried by 12.30.

It would fit this timeline if they were RETURNING to the house at 12.15? Right when Gramma expects them?

So maybe they'd already been to the lake and were heading home again when they were abducted?

All we need to explain then is the reason for the staging of the bikes, in this scenario...

Any glaring errors, please let me know.

:moo:

 

[brighidin]

OT...not gonna help us find Elizabeth and Lyric.... But is it necessary to constantly refer to Lyric's size like its a character flaw? ie - larger girls eat more etc... (This isn't directed toward any one person or specific post).

She just a little girl! I don't know her stats as far as height, but next to her cousin (who appears to be petite) she's going to appear even larger. Yes, she weighs more than the average child her age. No one seems to give it a thought that it's more than likely out of her hands.

Lyric is a beautiful little girl, who in my opinion is at least out riding bikes instead of sitting in front of a television. Someone's going to come along and tell me her BMI is obese, but to me, it's much more important to be healthy than the "perfect" size.

Ok, down off my soapbox. Mods, please delete if you feel this is inappropriate.

lease: bring Elizabeth and Lyric home

mahoolin, I don't know that anyone is implying anything - other than being aware there is an 80 pound difference between the two girls. IMHO, it would have been much easier to subdue Elizabeth, and for Lyric to have acquiesced out of fear for and even, perhaps, hoping to protect her younger cousin.

Sometimes such comments tend to come off sounding "snarky" - which I would agree would be uncalled for - but I don't really think that is the way most posters mean it.

I agree SacreBleu. Mahoolin, I haven't read anything that makes fun of Lyric's size. Maybe i have missed those posts. The point I have seen a few people make is that, theoretically, Lyric would be harder to subdue physically than Elizabeth.

As to the part I bolded, Lyric's NMEC poster, which is linked in the first post of this thread, states she is 4'11 and 145 pounds. That isn't small and to say that doesn't imply she is fat or out of shape or obese or anything derogatory.

And I think you are right that Lyric is going to blossom into a beautiful young woman. She just needs to be brought home, darn it!

ETA: Lishac, I didn't see your post after these ones that I quoted. Lyric's weight wouldn't preclude her from doing things, or make her excessively thirsty. Heck, my daughter is 4'2 and only 50 pounds and gets really sweaty, thirsty, and rosy in the cheeks whenever she does anything athletic, so the weight of a little girl doesn't mean much, imo.

 

[otto]

So based on your map...the purse was found near where the woods start to get thicker (towards Maiden Lane) as opposed to the more dense open area by the gate?

Yes ... The purse was 10 feet east of the bikes, so if we place the bikes at the gate, then the purse was 10 feet towards Maiden Lane. The trail is 10 feet wide, so that helps to give a sense of the distance between the gate and the purse.

 

[mahoolin]

mahoolin, I don't know that anyone is implying anything - other than being aware there is an 80 pound difference between the two girls. IMHO, it would have been much easier to subdue Elizabeth, and for Lyric to have acquiesced out of fear for and even, perhaps, hoping to protect her younger cousin.

Sometimes such comments tend to come off sounding "snarky" - which I would agree would be uncalled for - but I don't really think that is the way most posters mean it.

Thanks SacreBleu, and no, I don't think anyone has been intentionally snarky. I think sometimes stereotypes just get in the way. You're right, in some instances, her size does determine her part in someone's theory.

I just wanted everyone to remember she's just a little girl, and that just because she's larger - like Lishac said - doesn't mean she's not capable.
Not being argumentative at all. :twocents:

 

[hollyblue]

You are right and he was wrong, actually.

It depends on what level of forensics they throw at the scene.

If they stop at fingerprinting, yes, there's a chance they won't get a result.

However, I used to work for our local LE and they would throw everything at a crime scene (we don't have guns here, makes a difference to the workload) and they would go in and forensically process a scene for DNA etc, even if it was only a minor crime.

No joke.

They don't have much to do....! Even minor crime scenes are considered "practice" for the big ones and thoroughly processed, swabs taken off the victims for elimination, suspects, etc etc.

It results in a really good clearup rate, as you can imagine...it's a shame our courts don't join in the fun and impose more meaningful sentences but that's another topic.

:moo:

BBM. Are you saying your LE does not carry weapons....or that most people there don't carry?!!! TIA

 

[song22]

http://whotv.com/2012/08/07/attempted-abduction-indianola-girls-get-away/

The Indianola Police Department says a report of an attempted abduction Monday night was made up.

I wanted to follow up with a link as well. I mentioned we'd had several reports of attempted abductions or suspicious vans in Des Moines this year. One of those was made up. http://urbandale.patch.com/articles/girl-who-reported-abduction-will-not-go-to-juvenile-court

I still wonder how many others are later found to be false. I know the dangers are real. But a lot of these reports of attempted abductions feel a little like mass hysteria. I felt like the Dubuque report last week seemed totally off. In the video I saw, the girl said the man actually touched her face and said she was so beautiful. It didn't ring true to me. The story later morphed and was full of discrepancies and LE said it was all a "misunderstanding".

 

[otto]

I've just asked for confirmation myself as I'm not sure I read it right.

I've just been on Google Earth and I'm still none the wiser.

Brovan Blvd seems to run at a right angle to the lake. The girls were caught either going toward the lake or toward the house....but I'm still not sure.

I've even pm'd someone and searched the threads but no joy.

Anyone? Toward the lake, or toward the house? Locals?

lease:

The Collins home, where the girls were being looked after by the grandmother, is North of the lake. The building with the video camera is North of the house, across the alley. The camera is facing South, so the girls are traveling West.

 

[roseofsharon]

I watched the video a couple more times. Looks to me like both riders are wearing dark colored shirts.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...mix_cbf9acfe-d698-11e1-850e-0019bb2963f4.html

Has anyone had any luck slowing down the video enough to get better still shots?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I also think the clothing looks dark and I have watched it over and over to try and pick up some green, as it was reported that L was dressed like a Sesame Street character.

I also question the scale of the persons riding the bikes. In the case of E, she was a pettite little girl, but the two riders, IMO, look older and taller.

The film is not clear, however, so may just appear this way, but the clothing is definitely dark, which I find odd, for two little girls, on a hot summer day.

Did Grandma know what the girls were wearing, other than L's green top.

IMO

 

[song22]

Thank you ... if that was taken before the draining of the lake, the it doesn't look much different than 2 days after the draining started. The shore end of the drainage pipe appears to be visible, but it is nothing like the google earth maps which show the drainage pipe 20 feet into the lake. It also looks like there is plenty of room to walk along the shore towards Maiden Lane without getting tangled in weeds and shrubs.

Gosh, I don't get the impression at all that one could walk on that shoreline. It looks to me like the "shore" is just mud and muck.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Re Lyric's weight -

she looks to me like one of those kids (like me, my son) who puts on a heap of puppy fat just before they shoot up.

It doesn't mean for a second that they are unfit, or are going to stay chubby...they often grow into their weight.

I think the point being made is she was adult weight, if not yet adult height, therefore would physically be harder to move around than tiny Lizzie.

As they were so physically different too, it would also rule out a single sexual perp who usually (but not always) has a "type". Lyric was way more developed, almost a young woman, and Lizzie still very much a little girl.

One of them is the odd one out...find out why BOTH girls were taken, and you find the girls.

:moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM. Are you saying your LE does not carry weapons....or that most people there don't carry?!!! TIA

LE carries weapons.

It is illegal for anyone else to carry them so no one does.

Amazing thought hey.

You can go anywhere and pretty much guarantee no one is armed. A whole different mindset to the US.

 

[brighidin]

I also think the clothing looks dark and I have watched it over and over to try and pick up some green, as it was reported that L was dressed like a Sesame Street character.

I also question the scale of the persons riding the bikes. In the case of E, she was a pettite little girl, but the two riders, IMO, look older and taller.

The film is not clear, however, so may just appear this way, but the clothing is definitely dark, which I find odd, for two little girls, on a hot summer day.

Did Grandma know what the girls were wearing, other than L's green top.

IMO

I don't think anyone said Lyric was dressed like a sesame Street character. Early on, her flip flops ere described as having a SS character on them, although in an interview, Misty described them differently.

misty also said Lyric was wearing a green shirt in the morning, i.e. as pyjamas, but wasn't sure if she had changed once they got to Evansdale.

I'm pretty sure this was during an interview on the JVM show, which are all available on youtube. I can't look them up though.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The Collins home, where the girls were being looked after by the grandmother, is North of the lake. The building with the video camera is North of the house, across the alley. The camera is facing South, so the girls are traveling West.

Sorry but directions are about as clear as mud to me.

I have a learning disorder.

I can only work on "towards" and "away" and "left" and "right".

Can you please place it in those terms? I could figure out what you're saying but not without getting a paper and pen...

:banghead:

 

[MNDad]

Thank you so much!

So, at first glance, they are heading away from the lake.

Gramma said she let them go out at 11.30 with a warning not to be long as they had an appointment. She started to get worried by 12.30.

It would fit this timeline if they were RETURNING to the house at 12.15? Right when Gramma expects them?

So maybe they'd already been to the lake and were heading home again when they were abducted?

All we need to explain then is the reason for the staging of the bikes, in this scenario...

Any glaring errors, please let me know.

:moo:

It really was just bad reporting. Brovan runs slightly southeast by Northwest and the lake is South of there. They could be going away from the lake or going towards the lake; depending on which roads they use. If Evans then away from the lake. If River forest then to the lake. It is to much of an assumption to say either way. What can be said is that they were a couple doors down from Elizabeth's house on the street she lives on heading westerly on Brovan.

 

[hollyblue]

LE carries weapons.

It is illegal for anyone else to carry them so no one does.

Amazing thought hey.

You can go anywhere and pretty much guarantee no one is armed. A whole different mindset to the US.

Wow. That's wonderful for the crime rate. Are you allowed to carry out in the bush? What the hey do you do if one of the many venomous snakes comes along? Geeezzzzz!!! Seriously....or in your yard? Maybe I watched too much of the Crocodile Hunter,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[brighidin]

Sorry but directions are about as clear as mud to me.

I have a learning disorder.

I can only work on "towards" and "away" and "left" and "right".

Can you please place it in those terms? I could figure out what you're saying but not without getting a paper and pen...

:banghead:

The collins house is above the lake. Most people would go left to get there. The girls were seen on CCTV going left, so the reporter said they were going away from the lake. But as it turns out, you can get to the lake going either left and then down or right and then down. The girls weren't riding away from the lake, because you can get there from the left or the right.

I hope that helps and makes sense. And I hope i've got it right.

 

[MNDad]

Gosh, I don't get the impression at all that one could walk on that shoreline. It looks to me like the "shore" is just mud and muck.

Looking east (right side of the photo) it looks rocky and even dry. The way the light is hitting the dirt, I would say that it is not wet. In my opinion, easily walkable.