The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #11

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I am not a lawyer but since Mr. Martinez didn't bring it up in his direct could the defense ask about it? btw it wasn't Mr. Nurmi, it was the female defense lawyer, who asked the questions.



http://faculty.ncwc.edu/mstevens/425/Objections Lecture.htm

Nurmi brought up other things the state didnt bring up on direct examination when other witnesses testified.

The results of the autopsy would not be beyond the scope.

He could have asked any question he wanted to the ME as long as it was to do with the autopsy results that the ME did.

Imo, Travis had no drugs in his system.

IMO
 
I think it's just speculating on the part of some of us. For me at least, the sequence doesn't make sense with the GS last. And I've seen enough trials where extremely qualified medical professionals disagree with one another to know that they are not infallible.

MOO and it's allowed, lol! ;)

He also did not, and was not asked to clarify, how much of the brain the bullet passed through. His focus on the proximity of the skull to the brain in a young person suggests that it may have been minimal. Also, I would expect there would be demonstrative evidence of the trajectory if it was very clear.

What a person doesn't do or say is almost always as important, if not more so, than what they do say, imo.
 
Don't know if Veronica was telling the truth or not, but from what I remember (if I recall correctly), she said she worked with Arias at Bing Crosby's Restaurant in Desert Palm. The part about that poor kitty really got to me.

She sure sounded emotional talking about JA. I believe the second night Dr Drew talked about her (or interviewed her again?), he mentioned that they had NOT been able to verify Veronica really worked with JA.
 
I have not gotten into the "which injury came first" debate but one question I wish someone would answer for me as I don't understand....what is the importance of the bullet passing through the brain or not? What am I missing? How does the path of that bullet impact the findings?

Thanks to anyone that can or will clarify this for me...I appreciate it!:seeya:
 
She sure sounded emotional talking about JA. I believe the second night Dr Drew talked about her (or interviewed her again?), he mentioned that they had NOT been able to verify Veronica really worked with JA.

That was the second night (Jan 16) Dr. Drew talked to Veronica, here is the first time she called in (Jan 14).

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/14/ddhln.01.html


This is Veronica in Hawaii. Veronica, what have you got for me?

VERONICA, CALLER FROM HAWAII: Hey, I knew Jodi personally in Rancho Mirage, California. We worked together. She would be in the packing lot refusing to go to work because she couldn`t get him on the phone.

I said, Jodi, leave the boy alone. She goes, I can`t, Veronica. He`s the only man I want to marry. He`s the only man I want to have children with.

PINSKY: Veronica, when was this?

VERONICA: This was back in 2008. She worked at the restaurant for four or five months.

PINSKY: Did you notice anything peculiar about her? Is there anything you can tell us --

VERONICA: Every night. She had a flat affect. She was horrible at the job, but she got it because she was pretty.

And she -- and owners of the restaurant would say, I never want her at my table again. I would say, Jodi, what happened? And she`d say, nothing.

REYNOLDS: What restaurant was this because she lied and said she worked at a place called Margaritaville. There was no such place.

VERONICA: Bull. She worked at Bing Crosby`s in Rancho Mirage.

PINSKY: In Rancho Mirage, in the desert.

VERONICA: And she was living in a house, at Palm Desert Country Club. And she was trying to get me to buy this house for $300,000.

PINSKY: OK. Was she -- does she create chaos? Were she -- did you see any aggression? Was there anything about her that was --

VERONICA: No, Jodi does not show outwardly anything. Jodi stays at a flat affect. Jodi -- she would be telling me, I`ve got to drive to Arizona, Veronica. I`m going tonight after work. And I`d say --

PINSKY: Veronica, when you heard, were you shocked she was capable of something like this?

VERONICA: No, because she abused an animal, I know.

REYNOLDS: Oh, gosh. Well, a lot of Jeffrey Dahmers start with animals.

PINSKY: Tell me about. Again, we cannot confirm or deny what Veronica is telling us, but go ahead. Please tell us what you know.

VERONICA: OK. We had an employee there. He was getting there. His wife was allergic to the cat. He asked her to take the cat. But two weeks while they went on honeymoon, she told me where it`s at. She said, Veronica, I`m going to do it. So, she took the cat in.

After two weeks when the guy got back from his honeymoon, she came up to me and said, Veronica, when I went back to get the cat after two weeks - - I said, two weeks, what do you mean? She said, I left it in a dark room with enough food and water. A lot at her and I was about to strangle her right there. And I had a whole (INAUDIBLE).

And she said the cat was shaking horribly, Veronica. I guess I kind of felt bad. Oh!

REYNOLDS: Showing she`s obviously heartless. Are you watching the trial at all, Veronica?

VERONICA: Yes, ma`am.

REYNOLDS: And so, your thoughts are?

VERONICA: That`s Jodi. She won`t show you what`s going on in her. She won`t show you.

PINSKY: Did she ever sort of flip into different characters where you were sort of surprised by the sort of range where she almost seemed like somebody else?

VERONICA: No, because Jodi has flat affect.

PINSKY: She was flat.

VERONICA: She doesn`t show happiness or sadness or nervousness. She -- oh. My grandmother had a saying. Butter wouldn`t melt in her mouth.

PINSKY: I`m going to say, Dr. Golland, you know, one of the things about sociopaths is they don`t experience much anxiety. So --

GOLLAND: Exactly. That`s exactly what I was thinking.

PINSKY: If Veronica is telling us something accurate, that would sort of fit with the sociopath/psychopath spectrum.

All right. Veronica, I hope you`ll hold for me because I have no doubt I`ll have more questions for you.

Next up, I promise to show you a tape of Jodi`s friend who alleges a different side to Jodi. I`m going to have Veronica maybe ring in on what this other friend is saying.

Then, I`ve got a guest who knows more about the Steubenville rape than anyone else apparently. He`s an insider and he says he`s going to tell us a different story. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: We are back talking about the Jodi Arias trial with my co- host, Jillian Barberie Reynolds and our guests. Now, as I said, she`s got some supporters. I want to show you part of an in-session interview with her friend, Donavan Bering, talking about the Jodi she claims to know.

And I have Veronica -- as by the way, I`ve said before, I can`t confirm nor deny the veracity of what Veronica is telling us, but I want her to respond to this tape. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONAVAN BERING, JODI ARIAS FAMILY FRIEND: I know Jodi well enough to know that if the situation could be taken back, it would be taken back. Jodi -- Jodi -- would not be in the situation she`s in if she could have helped it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, Veronica, there`s someone that claims she knows -- I`m going to have the whole team listen to the Veronica respond to this knows Jodi. What do you say to that little tape?

VOICE OF VERONICA, SAYS SHE KNEW JODI ARIAS: Well --

(LAUGHTER)

VERONICA: Well, anyone who feels bad about something, Dr. Drew, is going to fess up. OK? This little girl --

(LAUGHTER)

VERONICA: Boy, she`s going to try the best she can to get out of it. I don`t understand the mentality of it, doctor, but boy, I sure worked with her and I knew her. And what I see in her trial and that flat affect and her just holding it all in and just acting like nothing is wrong.

PINSKY: And Veronica, was anyone ever concerned about her? Did anybody get the willies? Did anybody --

VERONICA: Oh, yes. I had co-workers at the restaurant who said, Veronica, stay away from her. What are you talking about? She`s a pretty little girl -- oh no, Veronica, stay away from her. There`s nothing wrong with her. She doesn`t show emotion. She doesn`t get upset. She doesn`t cry. We are wait staff. We are emotional, we are passionate, and she had nothing.
 
He only works cold cases now and teaches criminology classes. Experts get to a point where they lack humility. His book was good. I was so disappointed to hear about his "lapses".

I can't believe a judge let him spit ketchup.

henry lee sunk his credibility for me during the first spector trial. they pulled some shady stuff in that trial.

and my detective friend went to one of his seminars. he said he spent most of the time promoting his book and signing autographs (he brought me one. HA) and there wasn't that much substance.
 
I have not gotten into the "which injury came first" debate but one question I wish someone would answer for me as I don't understand....what is the importance of the bullet passing through the brain or not? What am I missing? How does the path of that bullet impact the findings?

Thanks to anyone that can or will clarify this for me...I appreciate it!:seeya:

I think the base question is 'could he have sustained the defensive wounds to his hands after the head shot'? Brain impact would make that even less likely.

The ME testified the shot was last because the bullet went through the brain and TA could not have fought back. I'll trust his judgement since he's done thousands of autopsies and I've done zero.

O/T

Note to self: Do NOT EVER AGAIN Google autopsies to check the spelling, and on a whim click images!!!!!
 
I think it could have been very easy to take a large knife, heavy steak knife possibly from the restaurant without them knowing it. I'm sure people steal things off the table all the time, they would have never thought she took it. I have a set of steak knives given to me as a gift from a restaurant and they are very sharp and could easily inflict a 5 inch deep wound. And they were a gift, in a gift box. lol jmo

I have an entire set of steak knives I took from Outback Steakhouse - one at a time. LOL
 
I just can't get past hearing JA in 2 videos saying to Det. Flores that TA was saying "I can't feel my legs". I fear this was a little truth in her vast amount of lies. :(

It makes me wonder which wound did that.

Did the medical examiner talk about any wounds that would have caused this? Any stabs that entered the spinal column? That whole scenario was weird. If TA couldn't feel his legs he would be on all fours as that would require muscle contraction, proprioception, etc. She really isn't a very good liar!
 
re. Veronica from Dr. Drew
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/14/ddhln.01.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/16/ddhln.01.html

Here are my reasons for thinking Veronica is full of it:
1) Contradiction: On the one hand she says JA is flat and unemotional and on the other hand is madly in love/obsessed with TA.

2) Doesn't make sense:
"And she -- and owners of the restaurant would say, I never want her at my table again. "
I think she is trying to say patrons told Veronica they never want to be at JA's table again. Have you ever told a waitress in a rest. that you don't like one of the other waitresses? Maybe I could see it happening in some small town diner but Bing Crosby's was upscale and catered to tourists.

3) This wacko statement:
"Oh, yes. I had co-workers at the restaurant who said, Veronica, stay away from her. What are you talking about? She`s a pretty little girl -- oh no, Veronica, stay away from her. There`s nothing wrong with her. She doesn`t show emotion. She doesn`t get upset. She doesn`t cry. We are wait staff. We are emotional, we are passionate, and she had nothing."


4) If JA is watching the cat for a friend, why would she be taking it to the humane society? Can't seem to make up her mind if JA is babysitting the cat or adopting the cat.
The words "retrieve the cat" seem odd - not normal speech.
Where the heck was the cat? In a room where?

1st interview:
"OK. We had an employee there. He was getting there. His wife was allergic to the cat. He asked her to take the cat. But two weeks while they went on honeymoon, she told me where it`s at. She said, Veronica, I`m going to do it. So, she took the cat in.

After two weeks when the guy got back from his honeymoon, she came up to me and said, Veronica, when I went back to get the cat after two weeks - - I said, two weeks, what do you mean? She said, I left it in a dark room with enough food and water. A lot at her and I was about to strangle her right there."

2nd interview:
"Yes, doctor. So anyway, she was taking care of this cat supposedly for two weeks. And after the two weeks she had told me, she said, "Veronica, boy, when I went to retrieve the cat after two weeks" -- I said, what do you mean after two weeks retrieved the cat? She said, "Well, I left it in a room with enough food and water." I said, for two weeks? What are you talking about, Jodi? She said -- and she kind of got a little startled at my response.

And she said, "Well, when I went to get the cat to take it to the Humane Society, it was shaking, veronica. The cat was shaking. I guess I kind of feel bad."

5) Veronica makes herself out to be a wonderful, helpful person compared to ALL the other employees - hallmark of a pathological liar:
"She was horrible at her job so, I was always helping her, picking up her slack.
Everyone else wouldn't touch -- wouldn't help her at all at work, because every time she got a bad tip from a table it was oh, there was a woman at the table, Veronica, she was jealous of me. That was the reason she got a bad tip. Not horrible service. "

6) The way Dr.D keeps cutting off Veronica mid-sentence and saying that her claims can be neither confirmed nor denied suggests he thinks she is full of crap.
 

This was really interesting (although that expert's voice makes me feel uneasy and kind of scared! lol). I don't get what Jean was saying about how her descriptions of personality disordered behavior (Borderline, Narcissism, etc) were good for the defense? This isn't an insanity case. Prisons are FILLED with personality disordered criminals. It doesn't make her look any better. She didn't get a personality disorder from Travis' "abuse". Jean kind of missed the mark on that one. But I'd love for those opinions to come in to the trial. I mean an abuse expert can't explain ALL her lying on "self defense". oh how I'm gonna despise these experts....:furious:
 
Thanks! Very useful!

Would also be interesting to include shower door open or closed status in list, JMHO.

(eg The eery photo of TA's face in shower #159, door appears to be closed. Next photo, #160, of TA seated on shower stall floor of body only - door appears to be open. JMHO.

Self-quote.

Additionally re: running water, in photo #159 it appears the shower might still be on whereas in #160 it appears the shower is off. JMO
 
Self-quote.

Additionally re: running water, in photo #159 it appears the shower might still be on whereas in #160 it appears the shower is off. JMO

Interesting because I don't think he got up to turn the water off then sat back down. Actually I don't see him sitting in that shower stall on his own volition for any reason.
 
This was really interesting (although that expert's voice makes me feel uneasy and kind of scared! lol). I don't get what Jean was saying about how her descriptions of personality disordered behavior (Borderline, Narcissism, etc) were good for the defense? This isn't an insanity case. Prisons are FILLED with personality disordered criminals. It doesn't make her look any better. She didn't get a personality disorder from Travis' "abuse". Jean kind of missed the mark on that one. But I'd love for those opinions to come in to the trial. I mean an abuse expert can't explain ALL her lying on "self defense". oh how I'm gonna despise these experts....:furious:

what a weird thing for beth to say. the 'personality disorder' people are the dangerous ones. they can't be fixed. i don't get how that helps the defense. wish someone had asked her!

ETA: i meant JEAN, which come to think of it, doesn't surprise me so much!
 
Interesting because I don't think he got up to turn the water off then sat back down. Actually I don't see him sitting in that shower stall on his own volition for any reason.

Experiment request: Who has a similar type shower stall and a husband of similar height? Please test to see if a seated man, similarly oriented as TA in photo #160, could easily reach the shower controls to turn it off. Thanks!
 
I have seen so many posts of people saying "no way would he SIT in the SHOWER"

And why not?

My hubby has been doing that since I met him (13 years). He does it EVERY DAY without fail. He does it for different reasons; not feeling well, tired, enjoying the hot water, just a few examples.

But for everyone here to think that its just so crazy for him to sit on the shower floor - that to me is crazy thinking.

Why wouldnt he?? Especially if we are all thinking that at that time he was probably feeling shame in what he had just done with Jodi.... then him sitting in the shower makes perfect sense to me.

again, jmo
 
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