CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[MsFacetious]

I'm sorry. :loveyou:

I think it was this that I was reacting to:

"I don't understand why this point is so difficult for people to grasp.
He killed a cops daughter, her cop fiance and two other cops.
He only killed cops and cops family.
That is my only point. He stuck with only killing cops."

I know you didn't mean it to, but it SOUNDED like it didn't matter as much if they are ' only' cops that are kill4d. Some of us are very sensitive to that. There is a big backlash now, making it seem like it is heroic to kill the LAPD these days.

Yes, I could have worded that better. I just meant "only" as in "exclusively" but somehow that didn't sound right either.
For the record... I've been home with a baby waiting for a cop to come home after a shooting. I'm not totally heartless.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

not any more - especially since they closed ortega hwy and all the construction on the 60 - i make the drive all the time - my parents live in palos verdes - and i used to take of my stepmom a few tmes a week - i used to leave at 4am to miss traffic but after ortega was closed soooo many times could take me almost 4 hrs to get to san pedro, so i had to start leaving at 1am to get there in 1 1/2 hours

If you took the 91 from Riverside it is a straight shot directly to Torrance and could easily be done in an hour at 2am. HOWEVER, even if it took an hour and a half or two hours why couldn't Dorner have traveled from Riverside (at 2am) to Torrance by 5am? Am I missing something?

 

[Seajay]

2 police officers were killed in the line of duty, they risked their lives to serve and protect. 2 other officers were wounded. It's something they will never forget. The effects of them being shot may be long lasting. They were injured in the line of duty, protecting other people. They are not corrupt cops caught with their hands in a cookie jar. The two officers who died this week were not corrupt cops. They were not on Dorner's "hit list."

All 4 of these officers took bullets for us. That's what they vowed to do. It cost two of them their lives. May they rest in peace.

A young, beautiful woman and the man she was to marry lost their lives before they ever got to live up to their potential. Bless their souls.

Two older women got caught in the crossfire of all this fear that Dorner generated with his manifest and lunacy. The officers who shot these women were on edge and trying to protect an LAPD family. They were on high alert. They made some bad choices, but they too took the oath to serve and protect and could have just as easily been killed as the other two officers and that young couple were.

The base root of all these people and what happened to them in this past week is laid at the doorstep of Christopher Dorner. He struck fear in the hearts of many, many people. Not just officers, but families, husbands, wives, children, grandchildren, and extended family members.

LAPD isn't perfect. It never has been, but it's not as corrupt and evil as people are making it out to be. Dorner had over avenues to explore if he really felt he got a bum decision by LAPD. You don't just load yourself up with guns and start shooting. What he did wasn't unlike the postal workers who got fired and went back to the post office and killed all their former work mates. Dorner did the same thing, only his enemies were armed.

Dorner is a criminal. He's not a hero, he didn't do anyone a favor, he should never have been a cop, he should never have been able to pass a psych eval. So he let the housekeeper, her daughter and the white truck driver (not race, but color of vehicle) go and just took their vehicles. He doesn't deserve a medal for that. He killed innocent people and he was the cause of other innocent people getting shot. He's a murderer. This was not a just cause and he's not a martyr. He's a cop turned bad.

 

[MsFacetious]

I guess that repeating the fact that he didn't kill anyone unrelated to LE kind of makes it seem that you could be saying he was not as bad as all that and really saw himself as in a holy war and/or justified. Because otherwise, there would be no reason to keep mentioning it as there is nothing to understand: He said he was going to target cops and their families which is what he did.

But I certainly don;t think you are brushing off his murders or sympathizing in any way.

Even if they were his target... many killers will kill anyone who gets in the way. Whether they were a target or not.

What made Dorner different from other very focused killers who target one specific group of people but will kill others who interfere?

 

[mister happy]

Yes, and the daughter of a COP. I said COPS and COPS family members.
I think it was clear what I meant since I said "cops daughter."

He killed a cops daughter, her cop fiance and two other cops.
He only killed cops and cops family.
That is my only point. He stuck with only killing cops (and their family members I should have added here.)

I take the time to write it out, double check it, triple check it, spell check it... I might miss something.

But please read it twice... and if my point is still clear despite the mistake just let it slide please?

I never said Monica was a cop. I knew she was a basketball coach. Coach Mo. The daughter of a cop.

My point was clear. Cops and family members of cops. Doesn't make it right or okay. Just another piece to the puzzle. :twocents:

MsFacetious, no hard feelings. I just don't have any sliver of compassion for Dorner. Monica wasn't in law enforcement, and it was a coincidence that her fiancée was a campus safety officer. Dorner would have still killed him if he was a plumber.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

2 police officers were killed in the line of duty, they risked their lives to serve and protect. 2 other officers were wounded. It's something they will never forget. The effects of them being shot may be long lasting. They were injured in the line of duty, protecting other people. They are not corrupt cops caught with their hands in a cookie jar. The two officers who died this week were not corrupt cops. They were not on Dorner's "hit list."

All 4 of these officers took bullets for us. That's what they vowed to do. It cost two of them their lives. May they rest in peace.

A young, beautiful woman and the man she was to marry lost their lives before they ever got to live up to their potential. Bless their souls.

Two older women got caught in the crossfire of all this fear that Dorner generated with his manifest and lunacy. The officers who shot these women were on edge and trying to protect an LAPD family. They were on high alert. They made some bad choices, but they too took the oath to serve and protect and could have just as easily been killed as the other two officers and that young couple were.

The base root of all these people and what happened to them in this past week is laid at the doorstep of Christopher Dorner. He struck fear in the hearts of many, many people. Not just officers, but families, husbands, wives, children, grandchildren, and extended family members.

LAPD isn't perfect. It never has been, but it's not as corrupt and evil as people are making it out to be. Dorner had over avenues to explore if he really felt he got a bum decision by LAPD. You don't just load yourself up with guns and start shooting. What he did wasn't unlike the postal workers who got fired and went back to the post office and killed all their former work mates. Dorner did the same thing, only his enemies were armed.

Dorner is a criminal. He's not a hero, he didn't do anyone a favor, he should never have been a cop, he should never have been able to pass a psych eval. So he let the housekeeper, her daughter and the white truck driver (not race, but color of vehicle) go and just took their vehicles. He doesn't deserve a medal for that. He killed innocent people and he was the cause of other innocent people getting shot. He's a murderer. This was not a just cause and he's not a martyr. He's a cop turned bad.

Completely agree!!!

 

[polleypockets]

If you took the 91 from Riverside it is a straight shot directly to Torrance and could easily be done in an hour at 2am. HOWEVER, even if it took an hour and a half or two hours why couldn't Dorner have traveled from Riverside (at 2am) to Torrance by 5am? Am I missing something?

all i am saying is that at 3am was dorner last sighting heading east on the 60 - i just think the lapd should have taken more care than to shoot up 2 trucks that did not match the description of the truck or the suspect - especially the last one that was blue driven by a white guy w/ a surfboard -

 

[polleypockets]

here is the actual shoot out
can't get o to work need to copy and paste

http://www. cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50140947n

 

[katydid23]

all i am saying is that at 3am was dorner last sighting heading east on the 60 - i just think the lapd should have taken more care than to shoot up 2 trucks that did not match the description of the truck or the suspect - especially the last one that was blue driven by a white guy w/ a surfboard -

Of course they should have. It is a horrible set of circumstances. But I guess I get upset when it is compared to Dorner's actions, or past bad acts of malice by the Ramparts division. Because these cops were reacting to a series of events that were a perfect storm of confusion, ending in these stupid mistakes.

I may have this next part wrong, but what I heard about the surfer in the truck incident was that he drove by the area where the other shooting of the women had just happened. So these cops MISTAKENLY thought he was leaving the prior shooting incident, and in the act of getting away so they rammed him. IT WAS WRONG. I don't know how they all got it so twisted. I am sure some demotions are happening as we speak.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

all i am saying is that at 3am was dorner last sighting heading east on the 60 - i just think the lapd should have taken more care than to shoot up 2 trucks that did not match the description of the truck or the suspect - especially the last one that was blue driven by a white guy w/ a surfboard -

Give them a break! I am so tired of reading all of these comments criticizing these two police officers for their mistake. Is LAPD claiming those officers did nothing wrong? Of course not. They have publicly apologized for the mistake. Those individuals will never have to work another day in their lives. They will be fine. It wasn't "LAPD" who made the mistake, it was two individuals employed by the LAPD. "Taken more care", do you think it was a malicious act? They were acting to protect their lives and the lives of their co-workers and their co-worker's family members. Do you think they didn't care and therefore they shot at the first truck full of old ladies that they could find? Is the LAPD now going to have to live with decades of accusations of deep seeded hatred towards white surfers and old ladies? Ridiculous!

 

[polleypockets]

Give them a break! I am so tired of reading all of these comments criticizing these two police officers for their mistake. Is LAPD claiming those officers did nothing wrong? Of course not. They have publicly apologized for the mistake. Those individuals will never have to work another day in their lives. They will be fine. It wasn't "LAPD" who made the mistake, it was two individuals employed by the LAPD. "Taken more care", do you think it was a malicious act? They were acting to protect their lives and the lives of their co-workers and their co-worker's family members. Do you think they didn't care and therefore they shot at the first truck full of old ladies that they could find? Is the LAPD now going to have to live with decades of accusations of deep seeded hatred towards white surfers and old ladies? Ridiculous!

no thats just it i agree w/ you imo i think the problem comes from high up - the leadership and the pressure it puts these poor cops in these situations and they will have to pay the consequences- i think that as to change - even more than what was done in the rampart scandal cuz that just scratched the service

 

[MsFacetious]

This made me cry all over again. lease:
Unbelievable. After seeing the video today of them dragging one of the injured cops out...
This just hammers it home... in a hail of hundreds of bullets.
It really is amazing that there were not more officers killed. :twocents:

Article with Video:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57569058/cbs-reporter-caught-near-gun-battle-with-ex-cop/


Here is a youtube version that has almost all of it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoA6Gdx2M54


This is the CBS broadcast, with the open line to the reporter who was in the middle of it.
The text at the top is a link.

[ame="http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50140903n"]Reporter records gunfight in Dorner capture effort - CBS News Video[/ame]

here is the actual shoot out
can't get o to work need to copy and paste

http://www. cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50140947n

 

[~n/t~]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get caught up this morning after watching some of the coverage on CNN last night. I see there are still conflicting reports on whether or not a body was found inside the cabin. Anything official yet? I realize it may take a while to ID the charred body.

Hoping and praying it is Dorner and the nightmare for all those effected is over. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

I know a lot of people are on edge in California and this will be a huge relief if it is him.

I don't care what happened in his past. Nobody has the right to take another person's life. He's a cold blooded murderer.

 

[shadowraiths]

Ex-LA Cop Brian Bentley on Dorner Manifesto: ‘Not Only do I Believe it, but I Lived it’ ( link )
Ex-LAPD officer speaks out about the LAPD, racism, and Christopher Dorner
by Jasmyne A. Cannick

*Brian Bentley, 49, doesn’t agree with what Christopher Dorner — the ex-cop at center of a massive manhunt for the killings of three people—has done, but he certainly understands it.

As a former LAPD officer, Bentley, who is now an author, says that a Dorner-like situation was just a matter of time.

“It took longer than I thought it would for something like this to happen.”

In fact, Bentley says that when he was a police officer, there were frequent positings of “look out” bulletins on the walls at police stations featuring officers who’d been terminated and who were believed to have vendettas.

“When the Department terminated you, they intentionally tried to ruin your life,” Bentley explains. “That’s how they discredited you. Dorner isn’t the first ex-police officer to have a manifesto or some sort of hit list.”

And he should know.

Brian Bentley left the LAPD in 1999 after serving ten years with the Department. He was a police officer in 1992 during the uprising and was assigned to guard O.J. Simpson’s house in Brentwood during the infamous trial. He served under police chiefs Daryl Gates, Bayan Lewis, Willie Williams, and Bernard Parks. However, he was fired for writing the book One Time: The Story of a South Central Los Angeles Police Officer that detailed the massive misconduct and racism he witnessed during his time at the LAPD’s Southwest and West L.A. divisions.

He says that when he left the Department he had a manifesto of his own. Not one that involved killing anyone, but a list of people who had wronged him during his time at the Department.​

 

[MsFacetious]

We do have a body... just not an identification.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8989757

A charred human body was found in the rubble of the burned-out cabin where fugitive Chris Dorner was thought to be barricaded, a sheriff's spokeswoman said late Tuesday.

-------------------------------

"Investigators have located charred human remains within the debris of the burned out cabin," a San Bernardino County Sheriff-Coroner Department press release said.

"Identification will be attempted through forensic means."

 

[~n/t~]

I'm sure there are many of us that were wronged by our employers at one time or other. Why are cops any different than any other profession?

 

[AngelWings444]

Can't read through all the posts tonight and don't feel the need to understand this serial killer this evening. I have been on eggshells all day, since my dear friends husband, was involved in the gun battle. He lost one of his brothers and the other one was in surgery today. All they asked for were prayers, it's been the longest day for my girlfriend not knowing if her hubby was alive. This is all too close to home. I have many friends who are up in their cabins as we speak. The young couple knew some of my son's friends for years. Their young lives were taken by this monster, they were innocent. Nobody deserves to be terrorized by this maniac and I am glad he is no longer on this earth.

To have anything but compassion for the lives lost, LE and their families, is so unwarranted on this somber evening.

JMO and goodnight.

 

[CHERIE.T]

2 police officers were killed in the line of duty, they risked their lives to serve and protect. 2 other officers were wounded. It's something they will never forget. The effects of them being shot may be long lasting. They were injured in the line of duty, protecting other people. They are not corrupt cops caught with their hands in a cookie jar. The two officers who died this week were not corrupt cops. They were not on Dorner's "hit list."

All 4 of these officers took bullets for us. That's what they vowed to do. It cost two of them their lives. May they rest in peace.

A young, beautiful woman and the man she was to marry lost their lives before they ever got to live up to their potential. Bless their souls.

Two older women got caught in the crossfire of all this fear that Dorner generated with his manifest and lunacy. The officers who shot these women were on edge and trying to protect an LAPD family. They were on high alert. They made some bad choices, but they too took the oath to serve and protect and could have just as easily been killed as the other two officers and that young couple were.

The base root of all these people and what happened to them in this past week is laid at the doorstep of Christopher Dorner. He struck fear in the hearts of many, many people. Not just officers, but families, husbands, wives, children, grandchildren, and extended family members.

LAPD isn't perfect. It never has been, but it's not as corrupt and evil as people are making it out to be. Dorner had over avenues to explore if he really felt he got a bum decision by LAPD. You don't just load yourself up with guns and start shooting. What he did wasn't unlike the postal workers who got fired and went back to the post office and killed all their former work mates. Dorner did the same thing, only his enemies were armed.

Dorner is a criminal. He's not a hero, he didn't do anyone a favor, he should never have been a cop, he should never have been able to pass a psych eval. So he let the housekeeper, her daughter and the white truck driver (not race, but color of vehicle) go and just took their vehicles. He doesn't deserve a medal for that. He killed innocent people and he was the cause of other innocent people getting shot. He's a murderer. This was not a just cause and he's not a martyr. He's a cop turned bad.

Excellent post Sea. :goodpost:

 

[txsvicki]

I don't believe a woman aged 47 is considered an old lady, but her mother is, of course pretty old. Hopefully, medical bills will be paid, another vehicle, and lost wages, but a lawsuit allowing a person to never have to work again? Will that happen with the younger woman and surfer? Surely not.

 

[gramcracker]

I signed up for the San Bernardino Sheriff's alert, and received the following advisory notice in my email, which I just now checked:

Advisory: Search for murder suspect, Christopher Dorner - Officer Involved Shooting

Hi ******,

DATE/TIME Tuesday, February 12, 2013 at 8:59 p.m.
INCIDENT: Search for Murder Suspect/Officer Involved Shooting
LOCATION: Big Bear Valley
SUSPECT: Christopher Jordan Dorner, 33 years of age – 6’0”, 270 lbs, blk hair, brn eyes

SUMMARY:
UPDATE: On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 at 12:22 p.m, deputies working the Big Bear area search for Christopher Dorner responded to the 1200 block of Club View Dr. for a reported stolen vehicle. The reporting party said the suspect took their vehicle and described the suspect as looking very similar to Dorner. Deputies immediately began a search on the ground and from the air for the vehicle.

The vehicle was located at Hwy 38 and Glass Rd.

The suspect fled into the forest and barricaded himself inside a cabin. A short time later there was an exchange of gunfire between law enforcement and the suspect. Two San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputies were injured during the gunfire and taken to the Loma Linda Hospital. At approximately 2:24 p.m., one of the deputies was pronounced deceased. The deputy wounded in today’s incident has undergone surgery and medical personnel are optimistic as to his recovery. However, it is believed several additional surgeries will be required.

A fire erupted in the cabin in which the suspect had barricaded himself. The cabin remains unsafe for investigators to enter and it is unknown when the structure will be deemed safe. It is believed the suspect is inside the cabin. Homicide investigators have responded and are conducting an investigation.

A press conference is scheduled for tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. at Sheriff’s Headquarters located at 655 E. Third Street in San Bernardino. ​

they didn't mention the carjacking of Rick Heltebrake's vehicle on his property in Angelus Oaks around noon, which was reported immediately. that's what Dorner was driving just before going to the cabin that burned